Raccoon and gray fox

[Sue K]

First of year raccoon in my yard last night trying to get at bird feeder; at the same time I saw our resident gray fox watching from about 40 feet away.  My flashlight scared the raccoon away and the gray fox stayed put.

Question:  does anyone know if a gray fox would attack an adult raccoon?

 

Moose lake, Ely

[Reid Carron]

Based on anecdotes and some personal experience, I think a gray fox would give an adult raccoon a wide berth. Adult raccoons are feisty and quick and powerful. 

Reid Carron

3100 Hartley Point Road

Ely, Minnesota 55731

cell 218-232-0622

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[Guy-Levar, Sarah (She/Her/Hers) (DNR)]

I asked my husband this pop question.  In his opinion due to the similarity in size and territorial nature a fox might take the opportunity to attack a raccoon.  It’s a good question.

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From: elyfieldn...@googlegroups.com <elyfieldn...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Reid Carron <fishrei...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 9:28:13 AM
To: Sue K <skl...@hotmail.com>
Cc: Ely Field Naturalists <elyfieldn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {Ely Field Naturalists} Raccoon and gray fox

 

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[Guy-Levar, Sarah (She/Her/Hers) (DNR)]

Have any of you seen the show UK-based show, Derek?  It’s a heartwarming show about a residential home for the elderly and the characters who live and work there.  If you know the show, you will appreciate that over coffee this morning my husband and I had a great Derek/Dougie debate over the gray fox versus raccoon conversation.  Fox are faster, raccoons have thicker skin and more fur but are slower…but can be feisty.  Our final consensus…neither would make formidable opponents due to strengths and weaknesses on both sides…maybe that’s why they gave each other wide berth.   Might be good advise for us to follow too…..in certain situations.

 

Sarah Guy-Levar

Interpretive Supervisor | Lake Vermilion-Soudan Underground Mine State Park

Minnesota Department of Natural Resources

1879 Stuntz Bay Road

Soudan, MN 55782

Phone: 218-300-7005

Cell: 218-235-1111

Fax: 218-753-2246

Email: sarah.g...@state.mn.us

mndnr.gov

 

“We like to be outside in nature so much because it has no opinion of us.” -Neitzsche

 

From: elyfieldn...@googlegroups.com <elyfieldn...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Reid Carron
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 9:28 AM
To: Sue K <skl...@hotmail.com>
Cc: Ely Field Naturalists <elyfieldn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {Ely Field Naturalists} Raccoon and gray fox

 

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Based on anecdotes and some personal experience, I think a gray fox would give an adult raccoon a wide berth. Adult raccoons are feisty and quick and powerful. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elyfieldnaturalists/CAO_3Od9m915yGOs-6tK7DrWw6KdVQb1DJtdFVZvs5xKGP3yx9g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sue K]

I’ve been researching online and haven’t found much on the 2 interacting.  I did find some YouTube videos though and there is a 20 second video labeled:  Grey Fox VS Raccoon Aggression (by Live Birder).   In the video the gray fox goes after the raccoon.  

The show you mentioned above sounds entertaining. Thanks 

[Don Brown]

According fro the Voyageur Wolf Project, wolves rarely take raccoons so one could conclude that they are too vicious for a grey fox but then raccoons can escape wolves by climbing - a strategy that maybe won’t work with the climbing grey fox. I haven’t seen a grey fox climb live but i have seen videos and i have seen racoons climb and in trees, it seems doubtful that a grey fox could prevail in  the upper story. 

The VWP linked me to a wolf/beaver fight video and it was amazingly vicious and long lasting - linked below so you can see how it ends for yourself. If a fat beaver puts up that much of a struggle with a wolf just think what a feisty raccoon could do with a fox. 

Size wise the raccoon has the advantage as well with average weight between 11 and 57 pounds versus 7-15 for the fox.

So this isn’t a definitive answer  by any means but i seriously doubt raccoons play much of a role in the diet of  grey fox.

No doubt there are exceptions as with most everything in nature, but there is a lot of stuff edible by fox that is much easier to capture.

And, then there is the dog raccoon thing - my money is on the coon.

On Mar 9, 2023, at 6:26 AM, 'Guy-Levar, Sarah (She/Her/Hers) (DNR)' via Ely Field Naturalists <elyfieldn...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Have any of you seen the show UK-based show, Derek?  It’s a heartwarming show about a residential home for the elderly and the characters who live and work there.  If you know the show, you will appreciate that over coffee this morning my husband and I had a great Derek/Dougie debate over the gray fox versus raccoon conversation.  Fox are faster, raccoons have thicker skin and more fur but are slower…but can be feisty.  Our final consensus…neither would make formidable opponents due to strengths and weaknesses on both sides…maybe that’s why they gave each other wide berth.   Might be good advise for us to follow too…..in certain situations.

 

Sarah Guy-Levar

Interpretive Supervisor | Lake Vermilion-Soudan Underground Mine State Park

Minnesota Department of Natural Resources

1879 Stuntz Bay Road

Soudan, MN 55782

Phone: 218-300-7005

Cell: 218-235-1111

Fax: 218-753-2246

Email: sarah.g...@state.mn.us

mndnr.gov

 

“We like to be outside in nature so much because it has no opinion of us.” -Neitzsche

<image001.png>

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[Sharon Rome]

As a child, I used to see raccoon tracks by the shore in the sand, along with remnants of fresh water clams they had opened and eaten. An adult, who was very knowledgeable about north woods wild life, told me that when a dog chases a raccoon, the raccoon will sometimes head for the water to lure the dog in. The raccoon then has a chance to try to drown the dog in the ensuing struggle/ fight. It may likely be apocryphal, but the story has stayed in my memory. Having seen some of the raccoons around us these days, I think a light- weight fox might lose such a contest.

On Mar 9, 2023, at 8:05 AM, Don Brown <gutsho...@gmail.com> wrote:

 According fro the Voyageur Wolf Project, wolves rarely take raccoons so one could conclude that they are too vicious for a grey fox but then raccoons can escape wolves by climbing - a strategy that maybe won’t work with the climbing grey fox. I haven’t seen a grey fox climb live but i have seen videos and i have seen racoons climb and in trees, it seems doubtful that a grey fox could prevail in  the upper story. 

The VWP linked me to a wolf/beaver fight video and it was amazingly vicious and long lasting - linked below so you can see how it ends for yourself. If a fat beaver puts up that much of a struggle with a wolf just think what a feisty raccoon could do with a fox. 

Size wise the raccoon has the advantage as well with average weight between 11 and 57 pounds versus 7-15 for the fox.

So this isn’t a definitive answer  by any means but i seriously doubt raccoons play much of a role in the diet of  grey fox.

No doubt there are exceptions as with most everything in nature, but there is a lot of stuff edible by fox that is much easier to capture.

And, then there is the dog raccoon thing - my money is on the coon.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elyfieldnaturalists/E71B2609-E00A-4884-AE28-F3F14BF80791%40gmail.com.

[chip hanson]

I agree.   I watched a pair of Raccoons fight on the shores of a river in Florida once  and it was ugly.  I think the Fox has much too delicate a sensibility to be willing to go toe to toe with a street fighter like a Raccoon.   Poultry more their style. 

On Mar 9, 2023, at 6:26 AM, 'Guy-Levar, Sarah (She/Her/Hers) (DNR)' via Ely Field Naturalists <elyfieldn...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Have any of you seen the show UK-based show, Derek?  It’s a heartwarming show about a residential home for the elderly and the characters who live and work there.  If you know the show, you will appreciate that over coffee this morning my husband and I had a great Derek/Dougie debate over the gray fox versus raccoon conversation.  Fox are faster, raccoons have thicker skin and more fur but are slower…but can be feisty.  Our final consensus…neither would make formidable opponents due to strengths and weaknesses on both sides…maybe that’s why they gave each other wide berth.   Might be good advise for us to follow too…..in certain situations.

 

Sarah Guy-Levar

Interpretive Supervisor | Lake Vermilion-Soudan Underground Mine State Park

Minnesota Department of Natural Resources

1879 Stuntz Bay Road

Soudan, MN 55782

Phone: 218-300-7005

Cell: 218-235-1111

Fax: 218-753-2246

Email: sarah.g...@state.mn.us

mndnr.gov

 

“We like to be outside in nature so much because it has no opinion of us.” -Neitzsche

<image001.png>

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[Mary Davidsen]

I’m from Indiana and therefore have an innate worldview centering on basketball. So when is the NCAA-style bracket coming out on this?

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[Mike Ruzich]

I agree. Having had pet raccoons while I was growing up, when something got under their skin, they could turn into a roiling ball of fury, using teeth and four sets of claws. If a tree is not available, think of a mini grizzly bear. 

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 9, 2023, at 8:43 PM, chip hanson <maxfra...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree.   I watched a pair of Raccoons fight on the shores of a river in Florida once  and it was ugly.  I think the Fox has much too delicate a sensibility to be willing to go toe to toe with a street fighter like a Raccoon.   Poultry more their style. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elyfieldnaturalists/F76A91D6-D300-4B46-994A-B36649929236%40gmail.com.

[Courses - School of Log Building]

I also had my boyhood “pet” raccoon that lived in a huge walk-in cage outdoors. I had a high school minnow business, and she enjoyed scooping up the undesirables – bullheads & crayfish in my pickup barrel when I’d return from seining. My mother would go furious when the coon would be let into the house sometimes, where it would grab fridge handle, swing the door open, and within minutes the kitchen floor would be covered with broken eggs. The TV was a pail of minnows to paw at. Great fun for a while, but when she grew up, turned more and more edgy, finally tore up the hardware cloth cage one March night, and departed. Phoebe then became the neighborhood scourge, injured dogs, reportedly killed several cats, etc. No more cute little pet, she.

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[Sue K]

Thanks all.  Enjoying all the remarks and stories!

[Mary Davidsen]

i still want to see an NCAA-style bracket on this.

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