SBMS0 Shunt &Temperature & cell Voltage cut-off wiring

[Richard Bewza]

Qestion 1: I want to use two DEXT16’s for low and high cell voltage cut-off.
I am a little unsure how to connect my two DEXT16’s to my multiplus given the multiplus has 2 connection points for each aux port (pos & neg) and the DEXT16 only has one connection point (pos). Please look over my notes and set me straight on anything missed.

Qestion 2: Do I need any resistors or diodes anywhere in this configuration?

 

 

 

Shunt wiring for load and solar charging shunts
SBMS0 ADC1n (pin 1) to load side of load shunt
SBMS0 ADC1p (pin 2) to battery side of load shunt
SBMS0 PVp (pin 1) to solar side of solar shunt
SBMS0 PVn (pin 2) to load shunt side of solar shunt

LIFEPO4 Battery hot &cold temperature cut-off  
SBMS0 EXTIO1 + & - (pin 3 & 4) to 10KOhm B3950 NTC Thermistor with twisted pair wire (polarity does not matter)

Discharging cell protection (2.8v on a 24v lifepo4 system)
SBMS0 Default Low cell cut-off at 2.8v using EXTIO3 set as type2
SBMS0 EXTIO3 - & + (pin 5 & 6) to DEXT16 RC- & RC+
LIFEPO4 Battery - to DEXT16 - & LIFEPO4 Battery + to DEXT16 +
DEXT16 BATT+ (screw1) to Victron 65A Smart Battery Protect H Terminal
DEXT16 BATT+ (screw2) to Victron 24/3000/70/50 120v Multiplus inverter Aux1 + or + & -??

Charging cell protection (3.55v on a 24v LIFEPO4 system)
SBMS0 Default High cell cut-off at 3.55v using EXTIO4 set as type1
SBMS0 EXTIO4 - & + (pin 7 & 8) to DEXT16 RC- & RC+
LIFEPO4 Battery - to DEXT16 – (screw5) & LIFEPO4 Battery + to DEXT16 + (screw6)
DEXT16 RCBatt+ (screw1) to DSSR20 Batt on up to eight DSSR20‘s (nothing to heat terminals)
DEXT16 RCBatt+ (screw2) to Victron 24/3000/70/50 120v Multiplus charger Aux2 + or + & -??

Thank you

Rick

[Dacian Todea]

Rick,

Q1:  The DEXT16 has nothing to do with the multiplus that is only used to control the DSSR20 with diversion (not the simple DSSR20) the manual for the DSSR20 and DEXT16 is this one https://electrodacus.com/DSSR20/DSSR20.pdf

You will be using the EXT IO3 and IO4 to control the multiplus stop inverting and stop charging.

Q2: What I see there is a BatteryProtect likely you want to use that for some DC loads and that will also be controlled by EXT IO3 set as type 2 but since likely the remote on the BatteryProtect and Multiplus are not compatible you will need to use two external optoisolator both controlled on the input by the EXT IO3 but the output of one will control the Multiplus (Temp Sense) and the other will control the Bttaery protect.

Shunt Wiring: 

Yes I just call the ADC1 shunt the battery shunt but connection is correct as shown in that diagram.

The new SBMS0 v03d will have different pin outputs as there is a 16 pin connector instead of the 8+2 on the old v02d SBMS0 version.

NTC is just a temperature dependant resistor so there is no polarity to care about.

It may take a few weeks until I get the time to write a manual for the new SBMS0 but the old manual should still be fairly relevant and connectors are labeled on the new SBMS0 same as it was done on the old one.

The EXT IOx are based on the Toshiba TLP172GM photorelays and they are limited to 50mA andy voltage up to 300Vdc so not a problem there.  You can use the same photorelays externally to multiply any EXT IOx in order to control as many different devices as you want or you can use something like this small SSR if you do not want to do any soldering https://electrodacus.com/solarforum.html?place=msg%2Felectrodacus%2FWU6ewQP8YMY%2Fp-gLDhXqBQAJ

[Richard Bewza]

Thank you

I have 3 devices to control on the charge side. 2 DSR20's and the multiplus

I have 2 devices to control on the load side.BP65 and the multiplus.

Will this work https://www.amazon.ca/Optocoupler-Converter-Anti-Interference-Isolation-Conversion/dp/B07WFGTNQC/ref=sr_1_56_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=optoisolator&qid=1601218982&sr=8-56-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzRjlIVklEUDNZWkkyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjAwMjg0MUxTQTJPOExXSjlWWCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTg5MjcxMTdMODRBSTBaUU0xSiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2J0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Will I need 2 of them or can the 2DRS20's share one of the outputs.

Will I still need som resistors.

Rick

[Barry Timm]

All your DSSR20s can be daisy-chained to one EXTIOn, usually, EXTIO4.

Yes, that optoisolator will work, but I'd buy 2 of them as their quality control is poor. I had bad ports on both of the ones that I bought (one bad port of the 4 on both of the devices, so it was OK as I needed only 2 ports on the load side for my configuration.)

[Casey & Gina]

That's the same optoisolator I have, though a different listing (I got https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GMHLL2M).  I haven't hooked it up yet, and am a little unclear on how to do so.  I'm sure it would be easy enough to play with and test out though.  Sorry to hear that you got a couple duds - I have no idea if mine is good as I haven't tested it yet.  I suppose I should get around to that soon.  My electrical knowledge is still to limited to understand exactly what an optoisolator does that makes it necessary here though...

Is there any reason to not just daisy chain the Victron remote on/offs together?  It seems at least for the load side, it should work fine to just link the BP and Multiplus to the same I/O in parallel (or maybe even serial?).  Not sure if there would be some problem doing that with the Multiplus charger and DSSR20's (or DEXT16).

[Barry Timm]

There are some threads on this board about the unfortunate incompatibility between various Victron remote switches. This dictates the need for optoisolators which effectively isolate the devices from each other and from the SBMS0 while allowing the SBMS0 to control them. For this reason, it is often necessary to use a separate port on the multiple port isolators like the one above,  managed by a single EXTIOn port on the SBMS0.

[Richard Bewza]

My cell voltage cut-off redesign using optocoupler
First, I show the new equipment, then how I think it should be wired
I am unsure of much of this wiring and most unsure of when to use resistors, how many watts the resistors should be and if I should be removing all of those 817 jumpers.

 

 

 NOYITO PC817 4-Channel Optocoupler Isolation Board User Manual

Features

This module is used when it comes to the need for isolation control and voltage conversion.

It can realize 3.3V or 5V to control the interface of 3.6-30V voltage . After the control terminal is turned on, the controlled terminal will also be turned on.

Photoelectric isolation has strong anti-interference ability. It can drive high-power triodes, MOS tubes and other applications that require high-voltage driving, and can also directly drive low-power 24V relays.

If it is a pulse signal, please note that thelimit of 817 is 4KHZ or less. If the control signal is greater than 4KHZ, please do not use this module, it will not work properly.

Parameter

Drive terminal signal voltage: 3.6-24V.

Output terminal voltage range: 3.6-30V (output current depends on thespecific situation but the maximum does not exceed 10MA, the total power is constant, the voltage and current are inversely proportional)

Whether the output is a high potential output or a low potential can be realized by a jumper cap.

4 channels 817 are independent, can achieve simultaneous control of different voltages, etc.

Board size: 48mm x 38mm (length and width);

Long side hole distance: 42mm;

Wide side hole distance: 32mm

 

 

 

 

 

Discharging cell protection (2.8v on a 24v lifepo4 system)

SBMS0 Default Low cell cut-off at 2.8v using EXTIO3 set as type2

SBMS0 EXTIO3 - & + (pin 5 & 6) to 817 Module IN1G & IN1 and IN2G & IN2
817 Module V1G & V1 to Victron 65A Smart Battery Protect L & H Terminals with 817 jumper removed
817 Module V2G & V2 to Victron 24/3000/70/50 120v Multiplus inverter Aux1 - & + with 817 jumper removed

Charging cell protection (3.55v on a 24v LIFEPO4 system)

SBMS0 Default High cell cut-off at 3.55v using EXTIO4 set as type1

SBMS0 EXTIO4 - & + (pin 7 & 8) to 817 Module IN3G & IN3 and IN4G & IN4
LIFEPO4 Battery + to 4.7K Ohm 2 Watt Resistor to 817 Module V3
817 Module V3G to DSSR20 Batt on up to four DSSR20‘s with 817 jumper removed
817 Module V4G & V4 to Victron 24/3000/70/50 120v Multiplus inverter Aux2 - & + with 817 jumper removed

[Demosthien]

I'm a bit lost here. Could someone explain this or maybe do a quick sketch to help me understand what's going on please?

[Dacian Todea]

All those red jumper needs to be removed.   
There are already 3kOhm resistor on each input and that should limit the current through the infrared LED to less than 9mA with a 24V battery formula to calculate that will be 27V (battery) - 1.2V (infrared LED inside the PC817) / 3000Ohm = 8.6mA and that is totally reasonable current.

So all you need to do is add a 1kOhm resistor to battery+ (close to battery+) just to protect against accidental short to GND of that small wire. Short to GND will see 27V (battery voltage) across that resistor so 27V / 1000Ohm = 0.027A and so 27V * 0.027A = 0.729W and so you will need at least a 1W resistor.

So battery+ connected to EXT IOx+ then EXT IOx- connected to IN1, IN2, IN3, IN4 and then you will use the V1 and G for one device the V2 and G to control another device and so ON  

[Richard Bewza]

Here is a drawing with my latest corrections.

Thank you
Rick

[Barry Timm]

I see mention of Aux 1 and 2 to control the MP, in your diagram. 

Do you mean the Aux terminals on the MP to control the charging,  and the Temp terminals to control the Inverter circuit?  So EXTIO3 controls Temp terminals and EXTIO4 controls Aux terminals. I think the Victron 2 signal BMS Assistant needed to do this is expecting those terminals to be switched. 

[Richard Bewza]

Newer Multiplus units have 2 programable aux ports allowing the temp sensor to remain a temp sensor.

This clip is from the multiplus manual.

[Richard Bewza]

 I am attaching the Victron manual detailing setup of aux ports.

It does show use of temp sensor but you can use aux 2 on units that have it.

Rick

[Barry Timm]

Ahh, OK. My 6 month old 24/3000 120v Multiplus does not have the new Aux 2 port. Must be very new!

Thanks. 

[Richard Bewza]

Barry,

Here is a photo I found online from April 2019. 3000VA 12v unit

[Barry Timm]

Wow, i must have got old stock then!

[Dacian Todea]

Richard,

Yes the diagram looks good is just on the output side for BP65 the connections need to be reversed as they say remote H- terminal but what they mean by that is that connecting a positive voltage there will enable the BP65 so there is a small positive voltage on the L- terminal that when connected to H- terminal will enable the BP65

You will need to test by setting EXT IO3 and IO4 to type zero and ensure everything is turned OFF else the wires may be connected in reverse so the diode conduction will keep the devices ON 

[Richard Bewza]

Thank you Dacian and Barry.
I Have implemented your suggestions.
All there is to do now is buy some parts and see what happens.

Rick

[Paul Rimmer]

I will be remote controlling a 12V 2KW Multiplus inverter/charger and a Victron battery protect for DC loads as well as a diverting DSSR20 and an undecided alternator charge controller.  I have the WiFi USB option as well as a DEXT16.  Would this setup also require an extra external device to remote control these units or do I have access to more control signals from the WiFi/USB board negating this need?

Thanks,

Paul

[Dacian Todea]

Paul,

The 2kW victron Multiplus can only be used as an inverter just the 3kW and larger has the proper separate remote for inverter and charger.

You have the new SBMS0 meaning all 4 of the EXT IOx are on the main board so if you only need 4 total controlled devices you may not need any extra external optoisolators.

[Barry Timm]

Hmmm, I'm open to correction, but the Multiplus 12/2000 and 24/2000 manual is virtually identical to my 24/3000 in terms of remote control, so I'd be surprised if they have not implemented the same or very similar remote control now, in the 2K model.

[Dacian Todea]

Barry,

The Multiplus compact that I seen have no assistant.

[Barry Timm]

OK, I did not see him talking about the Compact version. The standard version has the full remote control.

FWIW, my Phoenix Compact 24/2000 inverter does have remote control managed by the SBMS. It works perfectly. (but that, of course, does not have a charger).

[Barry Timm]

Looks like the Compact Multiplus 12/2000 and 24/2000 have the same remote features as my 3000, from the manual, unless I'm missing something?

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-MultiPlus-Compact-2000-120V-EN.pdf

[Paul Rimmer]

Uh oh.  We haven't bought it yet, but it's on the list.  We were looking at this one:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0053XY8NY - Victron MultiPlus Compact 12/2000/80-50 120V VE.Bus Inverter Charger

From the manual it mentions a 3-pin connector "L":

Connector for remote switch:

Short right and middle terminal to switch “on”.

Short left and middle terminal to switch to “charger only”.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-MultiPlus-Compact-2000-120V-EN.pdf

The 3000W Multiplus manual shows a similar 3 pin connector "H" and mentions:

Connector for remote switch:

Short left and middle terminal to switch “on”.

Short right and middle terminal to switch to “charger only”.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Service-Manual-MultiPlus-3k-120V-(firmware-xxxx4xx)-EN-ES.pdf

These are ridiculously vague blurbs in both manuals, with nothing indicating one has more limitations than the other.  Dacian, what have you come across that indicated the Victron 2000W Multiplus compact has the limitations you mention?

As an aside, are there any other 2000W 12V Inverter chargers that are known to work with the SBMS0?  Preferably one currently accessible to Canadians without having to sacrifice a first born.  ;-)

Thanks,

Paul

On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 12:41:39 PM UTC-7 electr...@gmail.com wrote:

[Richard Bewza]

Paul,

If you can up your budget by 300.00 you can have high and low cell voltage protection.

Aux1 and Aux2 are both programmable.

https://www.amazon.ca/Victron-Energy-Multiplus-Inverter-Charger/dp/B01AD2MJSK/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=%22multiplus%22&qid=1602108977&s=electronics&sr=1-2

Rick

[Paul Rimmer]

Thanks Rich,

Our budget can handle it but I'd rather not spend more than I need to if I can help it.  I'd probably need other beefier parts if I move from a 2000W to a 3000W Multiplus so the hit is likely more than $300.  Is the high and low cell voltage protection redundant since I'm using an SBMS0 to manage my 12V 560Ah DIY LiFePo4 pack?  I just looked at the user and service manuals for the 3000W Multiplus and there is no mention of what the programmable AUX ports can do.  What's the deal with the Victron documentation quality?  Could you summarize what these AUX ports can do? 

Thanks,

Paul

[Richard Bewza]

Paul,

You can use the 3000 inverter as lightly as you want and even turn the charging down. Cell protection is critical to protect that $2000.00 battery. Your multiplus needs to stop charging when any cell hits 3.55 volts and stop inverting when any cell hits 2.8 volts. It sounds like the one you are looking at does not have these two connection points. The SBMS0 cannot do this job unless it has a place to connect to. I covered the auxiliary input ports and programming earlier in this thread. Try looking at that first. It might answer your questions.

 

Rick

[Barry Timm]

Paul

First, I think you should contact Victron support and ask them if the 2k Multiplus offers the separate remote control of the inverter and charging functions as the 3k version does. The manual implies very little difference. If the 2k inverter does NOT offer than, then I would STRONGLY recommend you do not buy it, when the 3k version is so little extra cost. You do not need to use the extra capacity, but you DO need to control the loads and charging.

Secondly, in answer to your question about whether this remote control functionality is not duplicated within the SBMS0, the answer is NO. The SBMS0 sends a signal (remote control switch circuit on the Multiplus) to the charger function of the Mulitplus to tell it to stop charging as soon as any one cell reaches 3.55v (default voltage setting for LifePO4), and it similarly, sends a signal to the Multiplus when the Multiplus inverter (loads) consume the battery to the point where any one cell drops to 2.8v (again, default for the Lifepo4 battery chemistry).

This is the only way that the SBMS can manage the battery. There is no direct control or switching of the charging current or of the loads current by the SBMS0. It simply switches the very low signal circuits within the Multiplus remote control functions.

[Casey & Gina]

Any chance you're still open to shifting the setup to 24V?  I have a barely-used Multiplus 24/3000/120 that I'd sell at a discount - I'm looking to replace it with a Quattro 24/5000/120...  I think you're best off having a 24V battery bank and using a DC-DC converter for 12V loads, personally...

[Casey & Gina]

Found the following information online:

The Victron MultiPlus Compact is not the same as the Victron MultiPlus. The MultiPlus Compact does not have the auxiliary input so this will only turn on/off the Discharge or the Charge, but not both. However, there is a possible workaround using the Assistant for controlling the charger and the remote I/O pins for controlling the inverter load:

To make this work the Two-signal BMS assistant should be configured like this:

Caveats:
1) I have not set this up and fully tested it.
2) With this set-up you can not use a MultiPlus Digital Remote.
3) I don't know what the switch on the front of the Compact will do if you try to use it as well as the remote inputs.

[Dacian Todea]

Paul,

That 2000W compact will not work (can work only as an inverter).

Only the 3000W Multiplus has the assistant and Aux inputs to separately control the charger and inverter.

And this is the document explaining how the connections and setup are done https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Connecting-other-lithium-battery-systems-to-Multis-and-Quattros-EN.pdf

[Paul Rimmer]

Thanks for all the responses folks, really appreciate it.

Barry,

There is no 2000W Multiplus inverter/charger other than the compact.  I checked out how to contact Victron support.  Since I don't have a product yet, I don't have a distributor and there doesn't appear to be a way to contact Victron directly:  https://www.victronenergy.com/support.  I'll have to check out their communities to see if there is anything in there.

What ports does your older model Victron Multiplus have, and does it support separate control of the Inverter/Charger functionality?  I'd like to know if I need to avoid old stock if I go for the 3000W Multiplus.

Rick,

Sorry, I thought you were saying the 3000W Multiplus has brains to manage low and high V cutoff.  I do understand that the SBMS0 manages this and just needs a way to talk to external devices once it detects these events to protect my $1200 (8 x Eve 280Ah 3.2V cells from Alibaba) investment in cells.

Casey & Gina,

Thanks for the offer but I've already purchased 2 Newpowa 200W NPA-200 S-12H 12V solar panels that Dacian pointed me to and am about to mount them on my van roof.  Since cable lengths aren't an issue in our van we decided that 12V would work fine.  I'm also in Canada which complicate$ shipping expensive items.  Can you point me to where you found that info about using the remote and temp ports on the Multiplus Compact?

Dacian,

Great document!  This bit seems to eliminate any vagueness of the user/service manuals: "The Multi or Quattro needs to be of a recent type that has auxiliary inputs."  Not sure if this applies to Barry's older 3000W version.

OK, sounds like we need to go for the 3000W 12V Multiplus for SBMS0 integration unless I can find another 12V 2000W inverter/charger product that works with the SBMS0.  Other than the USB cable for configuring the Multiplus do I need anything else to be able to adjust the shore charger current?

Thanks again,

Paul

[Richard Bewza]

Paul,

Victron shopping list I would look at for your system.

https://volts.ca/store/multiplus-12-3000-120-50-120v-ve-bus.html

https://volts.ca/store/interface-mk3-usb-ve-bus-to-usb.html (Needed for setup)

https://volts.ca/store/ve-bus-smart-dongle.html (Fun for monitoring and a few settings on the go)

https://volts.ca/store/batteryprotect-12-24v-65a.html  (For other DC Loads)

https://volts.ca/store/smart-batteryprotect-12-24v-65a.html  (or use this one if you want bluetooth) 

Rick

[Barry Timm]

Paul, you could call one of their dealers to ask the question on the 2k model. 

But, frankly, I'd REALLY suggest you go with the 3k model if you're going to use any regular 120v appliances like kettles/fryers/conductive cooktops/hair hot brushes etc, etc. Even the 3k model is only really a 2400w (continuous) inverter, so they are lighter weight than their nominal designation suggests. The 2k model only provides 1600w at 25C continuous and only 1450w at 40C, so does not even support any single 15a receptacle at max draw.

My old Magnum 2k inverter was a heavier duty inverter than the Victron, but it did not have the separate charging/loads control that the Victron has. 

NOTE: If you really want a 2k inverter you could go with the Victron Phoenix Compact 2k. I have the Victron Phoenix Compact 24/2000 and it switches perfectly well with the SBMS0. Then you could add a separate charger if desired.

[Paul Rimmer]

Thanks guys,

We are pricing out (in Canada) the Multiplus 3000/12, MK3 USB cable and (dumb) 65A battery protect.    I've no idea what the smart dongle does for ~$100CAD so I'll have to look into it.

You are bang on that we actually do need the 3000W model as we have a True induction plate (1800W).  Had no idea that the Watts in the Victron product names was not for continuous.

Paul

[Casey & Gina]

I'm not familiar with the Multiplus Compact, but you may also want to consider the Digital MultiControl (DMC), as this gives you a remote for your inverter that is the same as the switch on the front (on-off-charger only) as well as a dial to quickly adjust the input current limit, which is useful if you don't want to trip the breaker on the source you're charging from, and don't want to have to get out the USB adapter and a computer every time you want to adjust it otherwise.  The potential workaround I posted above would make using a DMC impossible.  The source I copied the details from is here:  https://diysolarforum.com/resources/victron-two-signal-bms-assistant-for-multiplus-and-quatro-inverter-chargers.61/

"Even the 3k model is only really a 2400w (continuous) inverter, so they are lighter weight than their nominal designation suggests."  Well, not really.  If you mis-assume, as I did, that 3000VA = 3000W, then you will be disappointed.  1VA = 0.8W in this case, so the 3000VA inverter handles 2400W nominal.  On the bright side, it can handle 6000W peak, and can be over limit for up to a couple minutes.

12V panels can be connected in series pairs to a 24V battery bank.  Dacian talked me into going with a 24V system, and in retrospect, I'm glad I did.  There are some advantages to it which I've come to appreciate.  Thinner wiring and/or less voltage drop, namely, but the ability to run 24V DC appliances is handy too.  I have a 24V water kettle, which boils water in half the time the equivalent 12V model would take.  Not that it sounds like you would, but you also have the capability to run larger inverters than practically possible on 12V - the need for heavier wiring to handle current which is double on 12V for the same W as on 24V means that devices like inverters have to be be built heavier duty and require heavier wiring.  I wish that the BMS supported a 48V system, as that would seem more fitting for a stationary offgrid home setup, though 48V is beyond the limit of what's safe so it takes more caution to work with.

Paul, I don't think there's any need for the Smart dongle - unless you want to monitor stuff from your phone or something.  No need for that IMHO with the BMS telling you everything you really care to know already.

[Barry Timm]

It gets real confusing when the Multiplus is advertised as a 3000 WATTS inverter-charger, instead of the 3000 VA inverter.

https://www.solar-electric.com/victron-energy-multiplus-inverter-24-3000-70.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw8fr7BRDSARIsAK0Qqr6FkMJsWaWVkvgBUXmwZpYWYq8zM5fEnibh3npbzSp-1HptyCbi5VEaAsXwEALw_wcB

[Paul Rimmer]

Dacian,

Here's the list of things we'll need our SBMS0 to control:

- 2 x 200W Newpowa 12V panels in parallel, hanging off a single DSSR2.  Might go to 4 panels later (double decker) but another DSSR2 should be able to share the same control signal.

- Victron 65A Battery Protect for DC loads.

- Victron 3000VA Inverter/Charger.

- Renogy or Sterling B2B for alternator charging.

That's 4 devices but would the Victron 3000VA 12V Multiplus Inverter/Charger count as 1, or does it require 2 separate signals from the SBMS0 which puts me at 5 devices to control?

Thanks,

Paul

On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 12:41:39 PM UTC-7 electr...@gmail.com wrote:

[Dacian Todea]

-Yes multiple DSSR20 can be controlled by the same signal likely EXT IO4

-Yes BP65 will be probably controlled by EXT IO3

-Multiplus will need to be controlled by both IO4 and IO3  https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Connecting-other-lithium-battery-systems-to-Multis-and-Quattros-EN.pdf

-Yes they require the inition signal to be in series with the SBMS0 control so that if either engine is OFF or SBMS0 need to turn off the charging it can do that.

The multiplus count as two.