[Elecraft] Best Digital Program for the K3?
Dean
Thanks!
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Julian, G4ILO
As far as I know there is only one program (apart from the terminal in the K3
Utility) that makes any use pf PSK D and FSK D at all and that is my program
KComm. However it is really transmit only. You have to receive by reading
the K3 display, because there isn't a good way to get the text into the
program at the same time as using CAT commands. (There is a check box that
disables CAT so you can receive the text in the program, but I did that just
for curiosity's sake - it isn't recommended.)
-----
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
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Richard Ferch
> with the K3? I was looking for one that is compatible with PSK D and
> FSK D.
Any program that supports FSK on other radios will work with the K3 in
FSK D mode, decoding RTTY using a sound card and keying the radio via
pin 1 on the ACC connector. For Windows, the "gold standard" is MMTTY,
either stand alone or in association with some other program.
MMTTY also supports AFSK A. From an operational point of view, the K3's
AFSK A is virtually indistinguishable from FSK D, i.e. the K3 has the
same operating features in both modes. The only real difference is how
the transmitter is modulated. There are a number of software programs
that will only do AFSK RTTY and do not support FSK, so your choice of
software choice will be wider if you add AFSK A to your set of options.
PSK D is, frankly, just a curiosity at this time. There is basically no
software for it, certainly no software that comes within miles of the
capability of the sound card software that is used for PSK with other
radios. The same comment applies to the K3's ability to encode and
decode RTTY in FSK D mode and communicate text with the computer via the
radio command port; at this stage this is no more than a curiosity, as
there is no software that can make effective use of it.
For everyday operation in PSK31 and most other digital modes, you need
to use DATA A. DATA A is compatible with all standard PSK31 (and other
digital-mode) software. There are many choices; which program works best
for you depends on what user interface you are most comfortable with.
73,
Rich VE3KI
K2QI
James K2QI
Joe Subich, W4TV
> I like DM780. It comes as part of HRD.
And does not, last time I checked, support either PSK_D
or FSK_D (FSK). It is an audio only package.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU
What would you like out of PSK D and FSK D? We could consider adding it to
fldigi if there are advantages.
BTW, you didn't say what OS you were using, but fldigi runs on Windows, Mac,
and Linux.
Leigh/WA5ZNU
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K6LE
Presently I am running both Fldgi and cocoaModem and they both work great in AFSK modes so I guess it's not a big deal to me.
BTW, one of the reasons I run cocoaModem instead of Fldigi on RTTY is the ability to watch both the Main and Sub receivers on a waterfall and line up the next contact while waiting to finish another.
Rick
K6LE
Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU
Thank you, Rick.
You can configure fldigi to use RS232 commands for TX and RX control,
and the K3 has built-in transformer isolation so you don't need an
interface to run, just two shielded audio cables with 3.5mm plugs and an
RS232 9-pin straight-through cable. FSK D would also require the same
RS232 cable.
I'm surprised cocoaModem hasn't got RS232 rig control yet; it's pretty
simple to implement for the K3. (You literally just send "TX;" and "RX;" )
Leigh/WA5ZNU
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Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO
include an integral implementation of the WSJT protocols -- at least the
major ones (FSK441, JT6M, JT65[x], maybe WSPR). It never happened. Simon got
turned on to SSTV implementation instead, and then to SDR stuff... He is
supposedly back onto HDR/DM780 now, but I haven't heard anything lately
about the WSJT project. Anybody have any news?
Bill W5WVO
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <li...@subich.com>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:01 AM
To: "'K2QI'" <k2qi...@gmail.com>; "'Dean'" <ebd...@mytargets.com>
Julian, G4ILO
Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU wrote:
>
> What would you like out of PSK D and FSK D? We could consider adding it
> to fldigi if there are advantages.
>
I'm not really sure what advantages there are to using PSK D or FSK D.
Having to receive PSK by accurately tuning in a signal instead of clicking
on a waterfall is not a usability improvement, and the sound card decoders
do a better job of decoding weak PSK signals than the one in the K3. RTTY
may be better - I haven't really tried it.
Most people who have a computer connected to the radio have the use of a
sound card, so the only reason for trying this would seem to be "because you
can."
If Elecraft provides a way to read the decoded text into the software at the
same time as using CAT then I will support it in KComm. But I can't see that
I would ever use it in preference to a sound card.
-----
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
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K6LE
I understand about RS232 for keying the rig and that is a nice feature of Fldigi, however, that doesn't accomplish direct FSK keying which takes us back to the OP's original desire (I think)
As far as cocoaModem using RS232 rig control, I wouldn't really want it to since I have either MLDX or RUMlog connected to my radio and of course can have only one program using the RS232 port.
The difference, of course, with Fldigi is it's also the logger but I don't use it as such.
Rick
K6LE
On 2/8/2010, at 9:38 , Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU wrote:
>
> Thank you, Rick.
>
> You can configure fldigi to use RS232 commands for TX and RX control,
> and the K3 has built-in transformer isolation so you don't need an
> interface to run, just two shielded audio cables with 3.5mm plugs and an
> RS232 9-pin straight-through cable. FSK D would also require the same
> RS232 cable.
>
> I'm surprised cocoaModem hasn't got RS232 rig control yet; it's pretty
> simple to implement for the K3. (You literally just send "TX;" and "RX;" )
>
> Leigh/WA5ZNU
>
> On 02/08/2010 09:20 AM, Rick Prather [via Elecraft] wrote:
>> I don't know about the OP's requirements but to me the advantage of
>> being able to use the FSK D mode would be the ability to run FSK
>> without and interface.
>>
>> Presently I am running both Fldgi and cocoaModem and they both work
>> great in AFSK modes so I guess it's not a big deal to me.
>>
>> BTW, one of the reasons I run cocoaModem instead of Fldigi on RTTY is
>> the ability to watch both the Main and Sub receivers on a waterfall
>> and line up the next contact while waiting to finish another.
>>
>>
>> Rick
>> K6LE
______________________________________________________________
Kok Chen
that sound card driven programs using DATA-A can put out a cleaner
transmitted signal than the K3's internal generators in the PSK-D and
FSK-D modes.
Unlike many other rigs, the K3 is very forgiving about the precise Mic
Gain/audio levels.
I'd found that with Mic Gain set to 6, audio levels anywhere between
250 mV RMS and 350 mV RMS work equally well, with the RF output
tracking the PWR knob setting and not needing to readjust the audio
levels. With many rigs, you need to adjust the RF output through the
amount of audio drive, just so you can keep the ALC turned off.
With the "ease of use," together with lower IMD, there are few reasons
to use PSK-D (or FSK-D, unless you are out in the boonies with just a
Morse paddle) on the K3.
I've just spent a little time this morning and compiled the results
into a web page here:
http://homepage.mac.com/chen/Technical/K3/Digital/digital.html
The write up includes cases where I found a power creep (with an
attendant ALC creep and worsening IMD numbers from PSK31). It appears
that the power creep could be the result of insufficient audio drive.
With the "good" fixed audio level mentioned above, I see no power
creep at various RF power settings.
The measurements also show that the K3's transmit IMD is low enough
that AFSK RTTY waveshaping by software can help reduce the keying
sidebands when compared to a rig (K3 or otherwise) that uses FSK.
The bottom line (if you want to skip the nitty gritty details in the
above web page) is that the K3's PA at 50 watts average PSK31 power is
capable of better than -35 dBc IMD for close spaced carrier pairs.
By carefully tuning the audio drive, I can get -37 dBc, so I assume
the PA itself is good to at least that. The -35 dBc number is
probably limited by something else in the chain.
73
Chen, W7AY
K2QI
better.
James K2QI
Julian, G4ILO
Kok Chen wrote:
>
> I had recently made some measurements of RTTY and PSK31 which shows
> that sound card driven programs using DATA-A can put out a cleaner
> transmitted signal than the K3's internal generators in the PSK-D and
> FSK-D modes.
>
> Unlike many other rigs, the K3 is very forgiving about the precise Mic
> Gain/audio levels.
>
> I'd found that with Mic Gain set to 6, audio levels anywhere between
> 250 mV RMS and 350 mV RMS work equally well, with the RF output
> tracking the PWR knob setting and not needing to readjust the audio
> levels. With many rigs, you need to adjust the RF output through the
> amount of audio drive, just so you can keep the ALC turned off.
>
> The measurements also show that the K3's transmit IMD is low enough
> that AFSK RTTY waveshaping by software can help reduce the keying
> sidebands when compared to a rig (K3 or otherwise) that uses FSK.
>
> The bottom line (if you want to skip the nitty gritty details in the
> above web page) is that the K3's PA at 50 watts average PSK31 power is
> capable of better than -35 dBc IMD for close spaced carrier pairs.
>
> By carefully tuning the audio drive, I can get -37 dBc, so I assume
> the PA itself is good to at least that. The -35 dBc number is
> probably limited by something else in the chain.
>
> 73
> Chen, W7AY
>
>
By 50 watts average PSK power do you mean PWR set to 50, or PWR set to 100
or whatever gives an average 50W out?
Don't know how accurate my off-air IMD Meter is compared to the measurements
you did, but I see -28dB IMD with PWR at 100W which I think is pretty
acceptable not that I personally would run PSK31 at that power setting.
The K3 seems just about idiot proof in digi modes. I often say the K3 is the
ideal radio for operating digital modes. If there is another rig that does
them even better I'd like to know what it is.
-----
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
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Kok Chen
On Feb 8, 2010, at 3:27 PM, Julian, G4ILO wrote:
> By 50 watts average PSK power do you mean PWR set to 50, or PWR set to 100
> or whatever gives an average 50W out?
50 W with PWR knob, and measured to be close to 50W on an external averaging wattmeter with an idling Varicode on BPSK31
This means that the peaks of the BPSK31 signal is probably hitting somewhere near 100W instantaneous power. The same will be true with QPSK31 when idling, but QPSK31 puts out a little more average power than BPSK31 when actively sending text (the two extra phase angles in the QPSK31 constellation don't dip all the way to zero power when there is a phase transition).
Because of the envelope waveshaping, many novices are confused when they see power flickering as they type -- because power *is* indeed changing depending on the character that is being transmitted :-). The Idle Varicode, where the envelope of every symbol (i.e., every bit in BPSK and every dibit in QPSK) goes through zero, and has the lowest average power for BPSK31.
> The K3 seems just about idiot proof in digi modes. I often say the K3 is the
> ideal radio for operating digital modes.
Not completely bug free, yet. The K3's CAT command "KY" command interface still has problems, so you can't do FSK directly through CAT, for example.
73
Chen, W7AY
K6LE
With the ease of set up and use of AFSK on the K3 and with your tests showing how clean it can be, together with the terrific functionality of using both receivers with cocoaModem, I have decided that I am not going to bother getting FSK working either with direct keying or via FSK D mode.
I can't imagine running an RTTY contest anymore without using your dual wideband RTTY mode.
Thanks,
Rick
K6LE
On 2/8/2010, at 4:18 , Kok Chen wrote:
>>Snip>>
Dean45
Coming from CW, and being fairly new to other digital modes, I liked the
option with PSK D to occasionaly use the paddle instead of the keyboard.
Also, because I would sometimes use the radio stand alone for PSK D/FSK D,
it made sence to get used to how it works while I have the computer on and
can see the waterfall etc. The posts here so far have educated me a lot.
Thanks for your responses!
"What would you like out of PSK D and FSK D? We could consider adding it to
fldigi if there are advantages.
BTW, you didn't say what OS you were using, but fldigi runs on Windows, Mac,
and Linux.
Leigh/WA5ZNU "
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