[Elecraft] What became of the Elecraft’s KPA1500 and KPA 800

[DaveVK]

What happened to the Elecraft Amps? Did they get beyond 'proto: gee I want
one' stage?
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[sr...@swbell.net]

YES! That is exactly the question I would like to ask. I very much
looked forward to the release a couple of years ago, and now you can't even
get a comment from Elecraft about the situation.

IMO, QRO is much more important than all these trivial little toys
they are building now. I have a much more pressing need for a KPA-XXXX than
I do a panadapter (with limited features) and a wattmeter. I have a very
nice panadapter that has rig control from the computer, and it didn't cost
700 bucks, and I can control it with the MOUSE.

Wayne/Eric, how about some comments on this subject. At least tell
us what the future holds for the KPAs. I'm holding off buying a new amp till
the KPAs are released.

Stan Rife
W5EWA

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[west...@comcast.net]

Frankly, It seems to me that good QRO amps are a glut on the market. (see THP, etc.)

To be competitive in that market, any Elecraft offering would have to be highly

innovative and I just don't see much more that can be done.

IMHO

Doug, W6JD

K2 #1626

K3 #23

[Greg]

As far as I know, no one makes a full 1500 watt output, continuous-duty, no
time limit, "brick on the key" amplifier that covers 160-6 meters with full
QSK and "instant on". It would be nice to have a built in precision
wattmeter, too.

I'm sure some would also like an auto-tuner, antenna switch w/ memories,
dummy load, monitor scope...etc. It could be "optioned" just like the K3 so
cost could be adjusted to the budget of the buyer...

73 de Greg-N4CC

[Wes Stewart]

--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Greg <n4...@cableone.net> wrote:

From: Greg <n4...@cableone.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] What became of the Elecraft's KPA1500 and KPA 800
To: elec...@mailman.qth.net
Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 2:33 PM

As far as I know, no one makes a full 1500 watt output, continuous-duty, no
time limit, "brick on the key" amplifier that covers 160-6 meters with full
QSK and "instant on".  It would be nice to have a built in precision
wattmeter, too.

I'm sure some would also like an auto-tuner, antenna switch w/ memories,
dummy load, monitor scope...etc.  It could be "optioned" just like the K3 so
cost could be adjusted to the budget of the buyer...

As long as your budget was $10,000.
l

[Bob - W0GI]

<<<<<<<< As long as your budget was $10,000. >>>>>>>>>

:>) I think I will continue to turn bandswitch, roller inductor and air-cap
knobs, and use the other $9000 for other stuff.
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[Phil & Debbie Salas]

"As far as I know, no one makes a full 1500 watt output, continuous-duty, no
time limit, "brick on the key" amplifier that covers 160-6 meters with full
QSK and "instant on". It would be nice to have a built in precision
wattmeter, too."

I mostly operate barefoot, but when I need an amp I find that first 500-600
watts makes a big difference. So I'd like a 500-600 watt amp, full QSK,
160-6 meters with auto band switching when connected to the K3. Use a
separate switching power supply to keep everything lightweight so it is easy
to take places with you. And keep the autotuner and precision power meter
separate as well.

Phil - AD5X

[R. Kevin Stover]

That just ain't gonna happen with a solid state amp.

Spend $5K for an Alpha with a pair of 4CX1000A's which will do "brick on
the key" all day and night or the same $5K on an amp that can't (THP 2.5K)?

I would encourage Elecraft to drop the whole idea unless they can build
and sell an "Alpha Class" amp for less.

--
R. Kevin Stover

ACØH

[sr...@swbell.net]

To be inovative, they could make it a full kit, or "some assembly required" like the K3. I think a full kit would be a little daunting for most of us, so the 2nd option would be better. It/they have a lot of wiz-bang automatic control and proably a lot of surface mount circuitry.

It has a built in tuner and I thought that was pretty inovative. There aren't too many amps on the market with built in tuners. AND, it would be Elecraft quality and would match the other Elecraft equipment.

Stan Rife
W5EWA

From: west...@comcast.net [mailto:west...@comcast.net]

IMHO

Doug, W6JD

K2 #1626

K3 #23

Stan Rife
W5EWA

-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft...@mailman.qth.net

What happened to the Elecraft Amps? Did they get beyond 'proto: gee I want
one' stage?

______________________________________________________________

[sr...@swbell.net]

That is exactly what they designed Greg. It didn't have scope
capability, and I am not sure about the dummy load.

[Bob - W0GI]

Alpha 8410 - $5K, but you have to tune it, and your grandchildren will,
because it will outlast you.

Alpha 9500 - $8K, and you will still be dead while it still works, but the
grandchildren don't have to tune it at all. Pretty boring for them. :>)

The fact is, for people that have the money, it will be hard to convince
them not to buy an Alpha 9500. It is the amp most of us would love to have.
At the same time, I can get full legal power out of my Henry that was made
in the 60's. It just takes turning knobs. :>)

<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Spend $5K for an Alpha with a pair of 4CX1000A's which will
do "brick on
the key" all day and night or the same $5K on an amp that can't (THP 2.5K)?

I would encourage Elecraft to drop the whole idea unless they can build
and sell an "Alpha Class" amp for less. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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[sr...@swbell.net]

Ah, I don't think so. They were going to be a little less than half
that, if my memory serves me correctly.

Stan Rife
W5EWA

-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob - W0GI

<<<<<<<< As long as your budget was $10,000. >>>>>>>>>

:>) I think I will continue to turn bandswitch, roller inductor and air-cap
knobs, and use the other $9000 for other stuff.
--

______________________________________________________________

[Bob - W0GI]

If the goal was a 100% duty cycle 1500W amp for $5000, then the answer why it
wasn't produced, has been given. It's not going to happen by anyone, unless
they like losing money.

"Was going to be half of that", are two different things. The "was" part
didn't happen, and won't happen.

Check the prices of the mosfets and power supply needed, and it will become
obvious.

Apha has the R&D money, but they haven't done a SS 1.5KW amp, because it
isn't cost effective.

Not only that, but why would anyone want an amp that would require 3 times
the money to replace mosfets, as opossed to a ceramic tube, that will take a
lot more abuse and be less prone to failure, and probably last a lifetime?

Just the way it is......

<<<<<< Ah, I don't think so. They were going to be a little less than half
that, if my memory serves me correctly.

Stan Rife
W5EWA >>>>>>
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[sr...@swbell.net]

Apparently someone thinks it is cost effective. What would you need
100% duty cycle at 1500 watts for anyway? We don't have broadcast licences.
I don't think Elecraft was trying to achieve that anyway.

http://www.steppir.com/SteppirSPE.html

This is the 1K model. SteppIR is just the dealer. It's only rated
for 5 minutes at half power. That's probably enough for a digital QSO. SPE's
website says they have a 2K model that puts out double the power of the 1K.

Stan Rife
W5EWA

-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob - W0GI

If the goal was a 100% duty cycle 1500W amp for $5000, then the answer why
it
wasn't produced, has been given. It's not going to happen by anyone, unless
they like losing money.

"Was going to be half of that", are two different things. The "was" part
didn't happen, and won't happen.

Check the prices of the mosfets and power supply needed, and it will become
obvious.

Apha has the R&D money, but they haven't done a SS 1.5KW amp, because it
isn't cost effective.

Not only that, but why would anyone want an amp that would require 3 times
the money to replace mosfets, as opossed to a ceramic tube, that will take a
lot more abuse and be less prone to failure, and probably last a lifetime?

Just the way it is......

[Bob - W0GI]

<<<<<< Apparently someone thinks it is cost effective. What would you need
100% duty cycle at 1500 watts for anyway? We don't have broadcast licences.
I don't think Elecraft was trying to achieve that anyway. >>>>>>

Are you trying to argue here? Why do I even need 100W?

I work a lot of stations on the K1 at 5 watts.

But beyond that, someone that wants to use full legal power, will want 100%
duty cycle on CW and digital at full legal power. 100% unlimited transmit
power at 1500 watts, 24x7 if they so desire.

Maybe you aren't trying to argue, but I am talking about full power SS, not
something less.

The fact is, either Alpha will do 1500 watts, on any mode, continuously 24x7
for years, and not minutes.

I like to argue, if you could tell me what I am arguing about. :>)

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[Greg]

I wasn't trying to create an argument. I was expressing a desire to see my
"wish list amp".
I don't know what Elecraft has/had planned.
I never said anything about $5000 or $10000.
I never said anything about Alpha
I never said anything about MOSFETS
I said I would like to see a 160-6 meter, continuous duty 1500 watt
amplifier capable of QSK that was "instant on".
The current Alphas don't cover 6 meters nor are either one of them instant
on.
Continuous duty doesn't mean someone has to run the amp all the time. But
if it is built to that spec, it will handle anything I would ever use it for
and do it with "headroom". I like that.

73 de Greg-N4CC

-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob - W0GI

Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 9:42 PM
To: elec...@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] What became of the Elecraft's KPA1500 and KPA 800

[Bob - W0GI]

Greg,

You have some serious expectations for a full power amplifier?

My Henry is instant on, but it doesn't do 6 meters. You also have to tune
it.

That pig was made in the 60's, and still puts out full legal power. Go
figure?

73 - Bob.
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[sr...@swbell.net]

Good deal Greg. Yeah, I read your email ok. I was just trying to
express my desire for Elecraft to go ahead and produce the KPA's. I guess I
mis-stated something and that shook the trees too hard. There are a lot of
experts on here. :-)

Stan Rife
W5EWA

73 de Greg-N4CC

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13:35:00

[Rick Dettinger]

> It must have been the "export" model. Full legal power in the "60's
> was 1KW input. Probably near half that out.

73,
Rick Dettinger K7MW

>
> That pig was made in the 60's, and still puts out full legal power. Go
> figure?
>
> 73 - Bob.

______________________________________________________________

[Paul Christensen]

> "I would like to see a 160-6 meter, continuous duty 1500 watt
amplifier capable of QSK that was "instant on."

Greg,

The new SPE 2K-FA should meet your wish-list criteria:

http://www.radio-ham.eu/download/Leaflet%20Expert%202K-FA%20inglese.pdf

I believe it's still awaiting FCC certification.

Paul, W9AC

[Bob - W0GI]

I don't understand what you mean by "export" model. We can and could buy an
amp that will produce power way over the limit. We just can't transmit over
the limit. A Henry 2K will output 1500W and a 3K much more.

A 2500W amp driven at 60W to produce legal power is cleaner then an exciter
and amp pushed to the limits.

The only rule I know of is that the amp won't have ten meters, and you will
need to produce a ham license to get a ten meter kit.

> It must have been the "export" model. Full legal power in the "60's
> was 1KW input. Probably near half that out.

73,
Rick Dettinger K7MW
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[Lyle Johnson]

> The only rule I know of is that the amp won't have ten meters, and you will
> need to produce a ham license to get a ten meter kit.

On October 4, 2006 the FCC issued a Report and Order that did away with
that rule.

Now, according to FCC Rules Section 97.317, external amplifiers must not
operate between 26 and 28 MHz, and this restriction must not be easily
defeated.

73,

Lyle KK7P

[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Didn't know about that rule change.

This is way OT, but... How would you do this and make it "not easily
defeated"? A filter, a trap... Those can be easily bypassed or removed. A
microcontroller that calculates the input frequency and only produces an
enabling signal when the input frequency is NOT 26-28 MHz? Easy, just supply
the enabling signal separately so it's "always on." (And what manufacturer
would ever go to that ridiculous extreme in design and cost anyway?)

I guess it depends on how you define "easily." LOL Maybe it's not "easily
defeated" if you have to open the cabinet and use a soldering iron...

Bill W5WVO

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lyle Johnson" <kk...@wavecable.com>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:20 AM

To: <elec...@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] What became of the Elecraft's KPA1500 and KPA 800

>

[Gary Smith]

I remember building my Heathkit 221.. the gem with the 10 meter trap
in it. It was ludicrous the extent they went to make adding 10 meters
difficult so you could have a 220 instead.

I've always felt if they would have made CB on VHF instead of
stealing 11 meters from USA hams, "Skip" wouldn't have happened on
VHF and the CW McAll stimulus to pirate CB "Good buddy" never would
have happened & we wouldn't have that silly FCC rule today.

It's so outdated, how many CB antennae on cars have you seen in the
last 30 days? How many people today would drill a hole in their car
to add a CB antenna...

Another rule without a cause...

Love my K3

Gary
KA1J

[Doug Turnbull]

Hi All,
First off I was never on CB but came into ham radio the Novice route in
1960 I am just as pleased that the FCC tries to some degree to police what
can be put on eleven meters. Having said this, please let us remember that
many very good people have come into Ham Radio from the CB route and I do
mean good people. Some of these guys and gals do become avid CW ops even
and then go on to run code classes for others. It is not only true in the
USA but also in Ireland and other EU countries. The skip is one of the
things which really opens their eyes and makes Ham Radio interesting. I
hope that now with Sun Spots making some recovery that again we may have a
much needed infusion of new blood. I lecture in electronics and a
colleague asked me today if ours was not a dying hobby. Well, I was to
some extent dishonest and denied it but it is a worry. For that matter I
understand there is a dearth of good radio designers in the west these days.
It seems one area of engineering where being in the seventies is not so much
a disadvantage. We are most fortunate to have the good people in Elecraft.

73 Doug

[Lawrence Libsch]

>Frankly, It seems to me that good QRO amps are a glut >on the market. (see THP, etc.)

>To be competitive in that market, any Elecraft offering >would have to be highly innovative and I just don't see >much more that can be done.

Gotta disagree with this comment. There is no Elecraft-quality amp kit on the market, indeed, maybe no 800, 1500 watt kits at all. But there are now almost 4000 K3 owners, many looking for amps with straight forward K3 hookups and compatibility with the K3. If you don't think hookup and compatibility of amps with the K3 are not an issue, you're not following the reflector. Furthermore no one competes with Elecraft on customer service. Again this reflector clearly demonstrates lots of interest in Elecraft amps.

>????????IMO, QRO is much more important than all >these trivial little toys they are building now. I have a >much more pressing need for a KPA-XXXX than

>I do a panadapter (with limited features) and a >wattmeter. I have a very nice panadapter that has rig >control from the computer, and it didn't cost
>700 bucks, and I can control it with the MOUSE

Gotta agree with this. Elecraft got left in the dust with their panadapter. For $25, I built a Softrock for Elecraft K3
that runs Power SDR If you don't want to.build a Softrock, buy an LP Pan for about $200. Again you can run Power SDR. Either way creates an inexpensive panadapter that provides an amazing visual display significantly larger than the P3 proposes. It provides 2 RX VFOs, even if your K3 has no subreceiver. It provides point and click mouse tuning. And it provides entry to the world of SDR. Elecraft's P3 apparently will not have I and Q jacks. This means no adventures in SDR land for the folks who buy it. It's clear SDR will have a significant role in the future of radio.

Wayne, Eric, WE WANT THE AMPS.

K4KGG, Larry, K3 # 799

[Doug Turnbull]

Wayne and Eric,
You are both smart engineers and business men. Survey your market
before you manufacture high power amplifiers with an associated high cost.
There are plenty of amplifiers on the market new and old which do exactly
what is needed and interfacing is not such a problem. No one wants
Elecraft a small company to get into financial trouble. Four thousand K3
owners are not looking for the LPA 800/1500.

No matter what some say there are a number of us waiting for the P3!!!

It will be your call and we all hope for the best.

73 Doug EI2CN

-----Original Message-----
From: elecraft...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lawrence Libsch
Sent: 08 February 2010 20:29
To: elec...@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] What became of the Elecraft's KPA1500 and KPA 800

[N2TK, Tony]

Hi Greg,

I am still looking for the magical amp. Some get close, but not quite there
yet.
Presently I am using an Acom 2000A. It works very well. Puts out plenty of
smoke on 10-160M. I have a few sets of spare tubes so that should not be an
issue for quite some time. It has good QSK.
It is remoted - the amp is hanging for the basement ceiling about 3' below
my feet. It is nice just having the remote control unit in the shack. The
service from Acom has been wonderful.

The only drawbacks I have with it:
- 3 minute warm up time. So, most of the time the amp stays on during low
band season (winter). Don't really use the amp much for the high bands. But
want the capability if I feel I need it. Most of my non-contest QSO's are
barefoot.
- No 6M. That is the biggie. I would like to have one amp with everything in
one package so my next amp will include 6M.

By the way I think the 9500 and 87A are wonderful amps. So is THP 2.5. But
they don't run on 6M. The new SPE 2K sure looks interesting. Don't know
anything about them, yet.

I would like to see Elecraft come out with an amp that meets my needs:
- 160 - 6M
- Instant ON
- Can be remoted and controlled from a PC and/or a remote control head.
- Put out 1500W on at least 160-10M and reduced power on 6M.
- Can handle "continuous" duty for RTTY.
- None of my antennas need an antenna tuner so not really interested in that
feature. And being solid-state I would assume the amp would handle some
excursions of SWR without cutting back power.

If it comes in "kit" form I would assume it would be like a K3. I would
assume the amplifier boards and the switching power supply boards would come
finished and tested as building these could open a can of worms for some.
But many could handle the assembly and troubleshooting of high power amps.
Maybe it is not cost effective for Elecraft to do this? Maybe there is
potential liability with high power unless it is not offered as a kit?

Hey, I just may "need" a new toy?

This is just my opinion. It won't even buy me a cup of coffee.

73,
N2TK, Tony

[Bruce McLaughlin]

I believe a firm known as Dishtronic makes the Prometheus amplifier which has most of the characteristics you mention except it does not have a built-in antenna tuner. Unfortunately, its price range is from over $10,000 to more than $13,000, depending on which power supply you select for it, either a switching or analog supply. Of course, it is hardly a mass market item.

Bruce-W8FU