Setting Tries in the Cornerstone 1.2 LMS

[Ridgie Barton]

I have a client switching to the Cornerstone LMS, and losing the ability from their previous LMS (custom Docent) to set attempts/tries for a course. Our code utilizes Philip's Pipwerks API. Is there an easy way to set/track this using that API - I know just enough code to be incompetent.

R

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Ridgie Barton
Principal

Direct: 949.636.3288

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[Pixelmaestro]

Cornerstone must have a great sales team.  I promised myself to never work for a company that has Cornerstone as their LMS.

[Ryan Meyer]

Multiple attempts is not something that’s explicitly part of the SCORM 1.2 data model. It can be managed in SCORM 2004, but I’ve always found it to be incredibly complex.

What was the previous LMS considering an “attempt” of the course? Was it simply any launch? Or was it a submitted final score? You MAY be able to try setting the status to “failed” and committing, but there’s no guarantee what an LMS is going to do with that data.

-Ryan

On Sep 10, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Ridgie Barton <rid...@pixvfm.com> wrote:



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[Philip Hutchison]

Hi Ridgie

I would stay away from trying to manage attempt limits via SCORM. It can be done, but there are so many gotchas and opportunities for accidents that it's probably not worth it.

Are you certain Cornerstone doesn't provide attempt limits? They're such a big player in the LMS market I figured they'd be able to support that. (And Saba was just acquired by Cornerstone, so Cornerstone's grip on the market will only get bigger.) 

If I was forced to implement a SCORM-based solution, I would probably use suspend_data instead of any of the other CMI fields. You can implement a custom check in your course logic that scans suspend_data upon launch, and that places a custom string in suspend_data when the first attempt is finished (successfully or otherwise). Relying on the CMI exit status and completion status fields will be too tricky because they in turn rely on the LMS's interpretation of the SCORM spec. For example, what happens if the learner re-launches the course after the initial completion? (Course set to completed or failed and exit status to 'normal'.) Some LMSs will launch the course using the prior data, essentially in a browse mode, which doesn't align with the spec. Other LMSs will properly follow the spec and treat it as a new attempt, resetting all data. FWIW I wrote a little about cmi.exit a few years back: https://pipwerks.com/2008/05/10/cmicoreexit-cmiexit/ 

If you use your own logic via a custom token in suspend_data, and then set exit mode to 'suspend', it ensures the current session never really ends from the LMS's perspective, and therefore any subsequent launches will use the same session data. You can then choose to handle subsequent attempts/launches however you like. 

Pseudo code:

var susdata = scorm.get('cmi.suspend_data');

if(susdata === 'has-attempted'){

   alert("No way, Jose!");

   //exit course

} else {

   //let user proceed, but set token so launch will fail next time 

   scorm.set('cmi.suspend_data', 'has-attempted');

   //continue with course

}

Good luck

- philip

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[Ridgie Barton]

Thanks Philip,

I'm not familiar with this Cornerstone LMS - apparently, according to client, it only implements attempts logic in 2004.

We have told the client we can write custom code per your suggestions - thanks for that help - Their previous 1.2 LMS actually had a hack that did allow attempts to be tracked and limited and now all the existing courses that need to moved to Cornerstone won't be able to use this feature. We'll see what route they go down.

R

Ridgie Barton
Principal

Direct: 949.419.2568

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[Ridgie Barton]

Ryan,

Thanks for this insight. The previous LMS had a hack that allowed attempts to be tracked and managed. Cornerstone's 1.2 version does not seem to deal with what you suggest, but we'll pass this along and see what they say.

R

Ridgie Barton
Principal

Direct: 949.419.2568

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[Will Findlay]

We have Cornerstone where I work so I went on their user forums to see if I could find anything helpful. From what I can tell:

• To limit attempts you must contact Cornerstone Support (GPS) and request that they turn on a backend setting. Limiting attempts is not on by default in the LMS. (We don't have it turned on so I was interested to find out how it works).
•  Once enabled, an "Attempts Allowed" field will show up under the General tab in the Catalog. (I presume you enter a number here to activate it). 
  
• It only works for SCORM 2004 (3rd edition) and not for 1.2
• One person posted that their testing seemed to suggest that an "attempt" is simply launching the course, so users might exceed the Attempts Allowed if they have to exit and relaunch the course a few times.  

Will Findlay

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[Will Findlay]

Also, someone linked out to this post which may or may not be helpful...

https://support.scorm.com/hc/en-us/articles/206167066-Setting-Attempt-Limits-in-SCORM-2004 

 

Will Findlay

[Philip Hutchison]

Egads. What a mess. 

The Rustici link explains that the attempts are limited via SCORM 2004’s sequencing and navigation features, which requires customizing your manifest. Personally, I avoid 2004’s sequencing and nav features because they’re not consistently implemented across LMS platforms. But if you know your course will only ever be run on a specific LMS, it’s worth looking into. 

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[Ridgie]

Thanks all,

This client is trying to stay in 1.2 because they have 20 years of courses to move & not all use use Philip’s API - it looks like a custom solution per the previous advice.

Ridgie Barton

piXvfm

On Sep 12, 2020, at 8:47 PM, Philip Hutchison <phi...@pipwerks.com> wrote:



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