Elixir/Phoenix needs competition!
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lrix
Aug 26, 2022, 8:46:42 AM8/26/22
to Eiffel Users
In order to talk intelligently with Elixir/Phoenix people about Eiffel, I thought it might be good for me to actually learn Elixir and Phoenix so I don't come off as an idiot.
I am very glad to be taking this course in Elixir + Phoenix because it is giving me a sense of what common users are expecting and provides a roadmap of: What to build in Eiffel that will correspond and be "just-as-easy-as".
IT TURNS OUT: *Phoenix is a Web Server App and Web Framework. It is written in Elixir.
So, Requests come in from the WEB USER's browser/device (i.e. Page Requests, JSON Requests, Web Socket Requests). The Phoenix Web App Server catches, authenticates, and then converts those Requests to its own internal request structure at the ENDPOINT.
The ROUTER routes the "conn" (converted Request) to the correct CONTROLLER.
The CONTROLLER fires off any specific ELIXIR code functions needed to process, store, and gather data needed for the request and response.
Once the CONTROLLER has the response data, it passes that over to the VIEW.
The VIEW then takes the data and pulls a TEMPLATE, which is a combo of HTML/ELIXIR-code-snippets/CSS/JavaScript, and processes it.
Once the VIEW has finished processing the TEMPLATE into a final Response, that Response is then passed back to the WEB USER (e.g. either as a Web Page, JSON data response, or Web Socket response).
WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?
I think this means that if we wanted to compete directly with something like Elixir/Phoenix, we ought to use it as a ROADMAP to building something in Eiffel that directly competes: IN OTHER WORDS—we need an Eiffel-based Eiffel-ish ... Eiffel/Phoenix product (at least a "baby version") that can go head to head with the competitor.
BACK TO THE FUTURE!
This goes back to our discussions about Microservices, Web Apps, and Mobile. It's the same dance, but wanting an Eiffel Partner. The EWF is okay, but it is far too "low level" and it is not an easier and coherent and comprehensive "system". That is what Elixir/Phoenix is.
The Elixir people started with Erlang, built a language extension to it—and then—used Erlang/Elixir to build Phoenix as Web Server App, which understands Erlang/Elixir natively. Viola—a Web Server Product is born.
SWITCH THAT AROUND:
The Eiffel people (that's us) started with C/C++, built a language over it (Eiffel)—and now—we need to use Eiffel (using Elixir/Phoenix as a model) to build Eiffel-Phoenix as a Web Server App, which understands Eiffel natively. Viola—we will then have a Web Server Product that is a direct competitor with Elixir/Phoenix.
So, Requests come in from the WEB USER's browser/device (i.e. Page Requests, JSON Requests, Web Socket Requests). The Phoenix Web App Server catches, authenticates, and then converts those Requests to its own internal request structure at the ENDPOINT.
The ROUTER routes the "conn" (converted Request) to the correct CONTROLLER.
The CONTROLLER fires off any specific ELIXIR code functions needed to process, store, and gather data needed for the request and response.
Once the CONTROLLER has the response data, it passes that over to the VIEW.
The VIEW then takes the data and pulls a TEMPLATE, which is a combo of HTML/ELIXIR-code-snippets/CSS/JavaScript, and processes it.
Once the VIEW has finished processing the TEMPLATE into a final Response, that Response is then passed back to the WEB USER (e.g. either as a Web Page, JSON data response, or Web Socket response).
WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?
I think this means that if we wanted to compete directly with something like Elixir/Phoenix, we ought to use it as a ROADMAP to building something in Eiffel that directly competes: IN OTHER WORDS—we need an Eiffel-based Eiffel-ish ... Eiffel/Phoenix product (at least a "baby version") that can go head to head with the competitor.
BACK TO THE FUTURE!
This goes back to our discussions about Microservices, Web Apps, and Mobile. It's the same dance, but wanting an Eiffel Partner. The EWF is okay, but it is far too "low level" and it is not an easier and coherent and comprehensive "system". That is what Elixir/Phoenix is.
The Elixir people started with Erlang, built a language extension to it—and then—used Erlang/Elixir to build Phoenix as Web Server App, which understands Erlang/Elixir natively. Viola—a Web Server Product is born.
SWITCH THAT AROUND:
The Eiffel people (that's us) started with C/C++, built a language over it (Eiffel)—and now—we need to use Eiffel (using Elixir/Phoenix as a model) to build Eiffel-Phoenix as a Web Server App, which understands Eiffel natively. Viola—we will then have a Web Server Product that is a direct competitor with Elixir/Phoenix.
LEVERAGING WHAT WE HAVE
We already have Eiffel + C/C++ + WrapC + EWF
This is an awesome start! However, for about 80% of programmers it is too complex, too detailed, and too low level. Trust me on this—if there is one thing that this Udemy course is teaching me it is this—80% of programmers do not want "hard", "complex", and "difficult". They aren't sold on it. They want easy. Most of them are new and entry-level people who want to "make web apps/services quickly" (not to mention mobile).
NOTE: There is NOTHING that Elixir and Phoenix (and other bolt-ons) are doing that Eiffel cannot do. NOT A DAMNED THING! Elixir lays claim to Functional Programming—Eiffel has it (Agents, of course).
CALL TO ACTION!!!
Yeah—I just used three exclamation points. It is high-time that this community mustered itself, rose up once more, and put its effort and collective brain and talents to work to create a modern Eiffel-based competitive Web and Mobile, Microservice, Cloud-based product that can compete for the eyes, hearts, and loyalty of the 80%-ers!
What say you all?
MONEY MONEY MONEY
Yeah—I know. Then there is the money part. I have been thinking about that—meanwhile—we all need to eat and pay bills. Gotcha. Me too. Like you, I am in that boat. Starving as the sun beats down on our Eiffel raft somewhere in the middle of the Pacific ocean with sharks swirling around us waiting for us to die. Sums it up, right?
Thoughts? You bet. Here is one for you, where perhaps the community can use our network of who we know to SHOW ME DA' MONEY!
In the last 300 years—every war has been funded by (perhaps the same) people on either side. In each case, when the shooting stops, the money for rebuilding and setting up the victor starts flowing in. The Ukraine is just such a place.
Okay—yes—the shooting has not yet stopped. I got it—but—the money is already there and flowing. Governments of the US and Europe are pouring on the steam (not just weapons, but dollars and euros). There is a pipeline there. Money is flowing in it. The issue is: How do we and what we do tap into that? Why would someone in the pipeline want to divert some of that to us? How could the suggested product above be of benefit to rebuilding Ukraine and so on and so forth?
NOTE TO MY RUSSIAN FRIENDS: Whichever way this goes, money is going to flow. This is not about who is righteous and who is evil. That's the politics at the top and the currency of politicians looking for power and control over common folks like us. Their thing is not about us. It's about them. So, I am not saying things about the Ukraine as a political Us-vs-Them, Ukraine-vs-Russia. Please do not take it that way.
In the end, I've been thinking about these literally hundreds of millions and billions of dollars and euros that are already on the move in the pipeline. The question remains: How can or do we tap in? Who do we (as a community) know. Some of you are in Europe. You know people who know people. The same in the US.
I apologize in advance for thinking out loud.
We already have Eiffel + C/C++ + WrapC + EWF
This is an awesome start! However, for about 80% of programmers it is too complex, too detailed, and too low level. Trust me on this—if there is one thing that this Udemy course is teaching me it is this—80% of programmers do not want "hard", "complex", and "difficult". They aren't sold on it. They want easy. Most of them are new and entry-level people who want to "make web apps/services quickly" (not to mention mobile).
NOTE: There is NOTHING that Elixir and Phoenix (and other bolt-ons) are doing that Eiffel cannot do. NOT A DAMNED THING! Elixir lays claim to Functional Programming—Eiffel has it (Agents, of course).
CALL TO ACTION!!!
Yeah—I just used three exclamation points. It is high-time that this community mustered itself, rose up once more, and put its effort and collective brain and talents to work to create a modern Eiffel-based competitive Web and Mobile, Microservice, Cloud-based product that can compete for the eyes, hearts, and loyalty of the 80%-ers!
What say you all?
MONEY MONEY MONEY
Yeah—I know. Then there is the money part. I have been thinking about that—meanwhile—we all need to eat and pay bills. Gotcha. Me too. Like you, I am in that boat. Starving as the sun beats down on our Eiffel raft somewhere in the middle of the Pacific ocean with sharks swirling around us waiting for us to die. Sums it up, right?
Thoughts? You bet. Here is one for you, where perhaps the community can use our network of who we know to SHOW ME DA' MONEY!
In the last 300 years—every war has been funded by (perhaps the same) people on either side. In each case, when the shooting stops, the money for rebuilding and setting up the victor starts flowing in. The Ukraine is just such a place.
Okay—yes—the shooting has not yet stopped. I got it—but—the money is already there and flowing. Governments of the US and Europe are pouring on the steam (not just weapons, but dollars and euros). There is a pipeline there. Money is flowing in it. The issue is: How do we and what we do tap into that? Why would someone in the pipeline want to divert some of that to us? How could the suggested product above be of benefit to rebuilding Ukraine and so on and so forth?
NOTE TO MY RUSSIAN FRIENDS: Whichever way this goes, money is going to flow. This is not about who is righteous and who is evil. That's the politics at the top and the currency of politicians looking for power and control over common folks like us. Their thing is not about us. It's about them. So, I am not saying things about the Ukraine as a political Us-vs-Them, Ukraine-vs-Russia. Please do not take it that way.
In the end, I've been thinking about these literally hundreds of millions and billions of dollars and euros that are already on the move in the pipeline. The question remains: How can or do we tap in? Who do we (as a community) know. Some of you are in Europe. You know people who know people. The same in the US.
I apologize in advance for thinking out loud.
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