Frustrated. Just built and pen servo not working right
John Biggs
some eggs for easter. I followed the directions to the letter.
As soon as I applied power, the servo horn swung to the end of it's
travel path and started wiggling and making noise. I unplugged the
machine several times and tried different combinations of hooking up
the USB or the power first. I also tried sending commands from the
inkscape extensions. I could get the servo to basically freeze but not
respond. The servo motor was getting very hot. I disconnected it from
the ebb. I tested the stepper motors and they appear to function
normally.
So. I google around and after lots of searching (not on the trouble
shooting page) I find a person with a similar problem. The suggested
solution is to try a firmware 2.10c. This firmware is not on the
downloads page and is only located in this obscure location.
So here comes the next problem. Apparently Ubuntu Maverick no longer
includes lib hid-dev package needed for the firmware software. I
google again and give up after hitting midnight. I have no way to
flash with maverick, my servo will not function, and Easter is days
away :(
Help?
Windell H. Oskay
On Apr 20, 2011, at 9:20 PM, John Biggs wrote:
> just purchased the eggbot and had it shipped overnight so I could have
> some eggs for easter. I followed the directions to the letter.
>
> As soon as I applied power, the servo horn swung to the end of it's
> travel path and started wiggling and making noise. I unplugged the
> machine several times and tried different combinations of hooking up
> the USB or the power first. I also tried sending commands from the
> inkscape extensions. I could get the servo to basically freeze but not
> respond. The servo motor was getting very hot. I disconnected it from
> the ebb. I tested the stepper motors and they appear to function
> normally.
First, disconnect the servo motor from the pen arm, so that when it does swing to the end of its travel, it isn't hitting a physical stop. If there is a physical stop that it is hitting, it may not be possible to distinguish proper operation (but at the wrong pen arm angle, thus hitting the stops) from correct operation.
Do you still see the same behavior-- unresponsive when you try to toggle pen up/pen down, once it's disconnected from the pen arm?
> So. I google around and after lots of searching (not on the trouble
> shooting page) I find a person with a similar problem. The suggested
> solution is to try a firmware 2.10c. This firmware is not on the
> downloads page and is only located in this obscure location.
I'm not sure which person or situation you're referring to (and I'm curious), but this doesn't sound (to me) like the kind of thing that a standard firmware upgrade is going to fix.
It sounds more like a bad servo motor (rare, but possible) or possibly a defect on the EBB. I'm not sure what kind of a defect on the EBB could cause the servo to swing to one side like that-- if any --so I'd be inclined to suspect the servo motor. Contact Evil Mad Science for a replacement.
(Depending on where you live, you may also be able to get one faster by stopping at your local RC hobby shop and showing them what you need to replace.)
> So here comes the next problem. Apparently Ubuntu Maverick no longer
> includes lib hid-dev package needed for the firmware software. I
> google again and give up after hitting midnight. I have no way to
> flash with maverick, my servo will not function, and Easter is days
> away :(
Installing lib hid-dev seems like a bit of yak shaving rather than egg painting, and not like something that's going to solve the problem.
John Biggs
It's moving to the end of it's travel path dictated by the design of
the servo, nothing else.
I have tried all kinds of pen settings for pen up/down and clicked
apply. The pen servo is simply stuck in the down position and gets
hot.
John Biggs
> I'm not sure which person or situation you're referring to (and I'm curious), but this doesn't sound (to me) like the kind of thing that a standard firmware upgrade is going to fix.
From this group. This beta firmware was provided in December. I'm
gonna have to try to use my wife's school Macbook to upgrade my
firmware since Maverick isn't supported.
> It sounds more like a bad servo motor (rare, but possible) or possibly a defect on the EBB. I'm not sure what kind of a defect on the EBB could cause the servo to swing to one side like that-- if any --so I'd be inclined to suspect the servo motor. Contact Evil Mad Science for a replacement.
7-10 days and finding out its the EBB. I'm going to look for a way of
testing the servo independently.
> (Depending on where you live, you may also be able to get one faster by stopping at your local RC hobby shop and showing them what you need to replace.)
try to get to the hobby shop before it closes.
> Installing lib hid-dev seems like a bit of yak shaving rather than egg painting, and not like something that's going to solve the problem.
somewhere on the wiki that its a PIA to flash with Ubuntu Maverick.
Brian Schmalz
Unfortunately I don't know if 2.1.0c ever solved Mark's problems, as the thread ends without any feedback on what happened. That wasn't really a beta version - it was simply a special version I built just for him to see if the change I made would solve his problem.
I do believe that your situation is different from his. For two reasons:
1) His servo was not getting hot (at least not that he mentioned)
2) Once he sent the first command, the jittering went away.
How I read your description of the problem is that no matter what commands you send to the EBB, the servo continues to peg itself on one end of its travel and gets real hot.
I'm with Windell on this: either a bad servo or a bad EBB. I'm sure you've checked this a million times, but a servo connector put on backwards might cause this type of problem. Or connected to the wrong header on the EBB. (If they're installing more than just the one 3-pin.)
*Brian
Work www.logicpd.com
From: John Biggs <pcge...@gmail.com>
To: EggBotUser <eggbo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, April 21, 2011 6:11:59 AM
Subject: [EggBot] Re: Frustrated. Just built and pen servo not working right
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "EggBotUser" group.
To post to this group, send email to eggbo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to eggbotuser+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/eggbotuser?hl=en.
Brian Schmalz
Another thing to confirm is that the EBB is responding properly to the PC. For example, if you execute the Check EBB Version command, does it respond properly? If you disconnect the servo, do you still get normal motor movements if plot something from Inkscape?
From: John Biggs <pcge...@gmail.com>
To: EggBotUser <eggbo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, April 21, 2011 6:11:59 AM
Subject: [EggBot] Re: Frustrated. Just built and pen servo not working right
Brian Schmalz
Another thing you could try would be to see if you could get the servo working on another one of the EBB's outputs.
If your EBB has all four of the 3-pin headers installed (B1, B0, B2, B3) then you can try the following commands to use a different output for testing your servo.
First, you need to establish a terminal emulator connection to the EBB. Quick Inkscape, and start up a terminal emulator (I'm not a Linux guy, so I'm not sure what works best - I use TeraTerm under Windows). Connect to the EBB's serial (TTY) port. Then do a V command to make sure you get back a version string - proving your EBB is up and running and you have good communication with it.
Then plug your servo into the B0 connector (the one right next to the B1 connector that is normally used for the pen up/down servo). Again, make sure the brown wire is on the GND pin (the one right next to the edge of the board).
Next, issue the following commands to the EBB:
PD,B,0,0
S2,2,10000,3,1000
then wait a bit
S2,2,15000,3,1000
Each one should return an "OK" from the EBB. The last two commands are setting the servo position, so you should see (and hear) it move as you change from 10000 to 15000 for the servo's position.
If your servo works fine, then you've got a good servo and there's just something bad with the B1 output on the EBB. If the servo still just pegs and gets hot, then either the voltage going to the servo is bad, or the servo itself is bad, or there's something wrong with both B0 and B1 outputs on the EBB.
From: John Biggs <pcge...@gmail.com>
To: EggBotUser <eggbo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, April 21, 2011 6:11:59 AM
Subject: [EggBot] Re: Frustrated. Just built and pen servo not working right
Robert Morgan
have a tiny suggestion - have you double checked the steps for setting
up the servo horn? I almost missed the removal and realigning step of
that bit and I think that might have resulted in a similar problem.
Bob
> eggbotuser+...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/eggbotuser?hl=en.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "EggBotUser" group.
> To post to this group, send email to eggbo...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> eggbotuser+...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/eggbotuser?hl=en.
>
--
Let no man hinder this mail, nor open it without our authority on pain
of pain. - Lord Vetinari
Windell H. Oskay
On Apr 21, 2011, at 4:11 AM, John Biggs wrote:
> http://groups.google.com/group/eggbotuser/browse_thread/thread/36dd7d8f7109efd2/f7b87086692676bd
>
> From this group. This beta firmware was provided in December.
Thank you for the link. I didn't think that this would fix the problem then, and I don't think that this will fix the problem now. It just doesn't sound related in any way, nor does it sound like it could possibly fix it.
>> It sounds more like a bad servo motor (rare, but possible) or possibly a defect on the EBB. I'm not sure what kind of a defect on the EBB could cause the servo to swing to one side like that-- if any --so I'd be inclined to suspect the servo motor. Contact Evil Mad Science for a replacement.
>
> I just emailed them. My problem is asking for a new servo, waiting
> 7-10 days and finding out its the EBB. I'm going to look for a way of
> testing the servo independently.
>
> I'm stuck at work for the next 10 hours so once that's done with I'll
> try to get to the hobby shop before it closes.
I think you're being unnecessarily pessimistic. However you are correct: it's probably good for you to test the servo independently if possible. If you have a hobby shop handy, they should be able to test a servo for you.
> I'd probably have better luck shaving a yak. EMS should mention
> somewhere on the wiki that its a PIA to flash with Ubuntu Maverick.
You are the first person to report this problem-- thank you for reporting it. We've added it to our list of issues (http://code.google.com/p/eggbotcode/issues/detail?id=38 )
However, there is no evidence to suggest that it's something that will help this issue, so it's probably not where you should be spending your time.
Windell H. Oskay
On Apr 21, 2011, at 5:47 AM, Brian Schmalz wrote:
> John,
>
> Another thing to confirm is that the EBB is responding properly to the PC. For example, if you execute the Check EBB Version command, does it respond properly? If you disconnect the servo, do you still get normal motor movements if plot something from Inkscape?
He did say that the steppers are working correctly.
John Biggs
damaged from the heat) and I was able to get the steppers and the
board to respond correctly to the commands. Also the servo will
sometimes stop 'jittering' and just remain pegged. If I issue a servo
command I can hear a hum, but no movement. If I issue another few
servo commands the humming may stop or may start again. That implies
the EBB is providing some sort of variance in the servo signal. I'm
guessing, after a few google searches, that its probably an internal
POT adjustment in the servo.
The horn is correct. An incorrect horn alignment would cause a
physical strike of the horn or not enough lift of the pen. In my case
the horn isn't touching anything. If I power down, and manually move
the horn back to center (pointed the same direction as the wires),
then apply power again, the servo throws the horn right back to the
end of the servo travel path.
I will try one of the other outputs with the servo tonight. But since
my time to get to the hobby shop is so short, I may try a new servo
first.
John Biggs
fetched, I know. How should I press it. Just momentary, or hold for 30
seconds?
Thanks,
John
Brian Schmalz
To reset the EBB, simply press and release the reset button - no need to hold it down for a certain length of time.
Note that if a program (for example Inkscape) has the serial port open when you do the reset, it is very likely you will need to exit that program, reset the board again, and then restart the program before you'll be able to properly communicate with the EBB.
It may or may not help your situation to reset the board - my guess is that it will not change the behavior you see at all.
Subject: [EggBot] Re: Frustrated. Just built and pen servo not working right
John Biggs
I went to the hobby shop last night and bought a Hitec HS-55 Servo
since thats what EMS says there servo is a cheap replacement for. The
HS-55 was $10, its a bit smaller and didn't come with a single ended
horn. I cut one of the ends off a double sided horn and mounted it. It
fit very loose and wiggles, but because of the usage to lift the pen,
the wiggle didn't matter. The HS-55 seems to work in reverse so my pen
lift value was smaller than the pen down value. But this doesn't
matter as it all works. I created several eggs using sample files. I
did notice the pen arm kept falling in the beginning when it got
closer to horizontal. And what was strange to me is the diagram on the
EBB PCB shows a counter clock wise rotation for + which I assume was
increase power. But it ended up being a clockwise rotation.
I just got a replacement servo from EMS. They were great in helping
me! I've swapped out the HS-55, for the better fitting EMS servo. The
pen lift values are in the right order again. And now my eggbot seems
complete.
BTW: I'm such a dork I already owned 25 different color Ultra Fine
Point Sharpies. :)
Brian Schmalz
I'm really happy that it's working for you. So it was a bad servo after all. Kudos to EMSL for getting you a replacement so quickly.
Even though I don't do a lot of plotting on my EB, I have at least that many pens! It's fun to collect all the different colors.
Subject: [EggBot] Re: Frustrated. Just built and pen servo not working right
Brian Schmalz
Dan Newman
I have run across 3rd party services for both Macs and Windows which when they see a USB HID
device which smells right, they go out and grab it and then don't release the handle even though
the device turns out to not be what it was looking for.... (Possibly poor error handling in the
code implementing the service and it "leaks" handles. Who knows.) For example, the LiveScribe
folks had/have a service which did this when it saw an EiBotBoard on both Windows and Macs....
Disabling the service was the only way to deal with the problem. (This was on Windows XP SP3 so
it was through the old service manager GUI.) The problem had nothing to do with whether or
not a LiveScribe pen was plugged in to a USB port: this was a background service which would
look for a pen being plugged in and then fire up some app.
I offer the above as only an example -- who knows what is going on on this person's computer.
On a Mac or a Linux box I would try to use lfos to see who has an open I/O channel to the USB
device. That on the assumption that you're getting "Cannot open port" because some other process
has the device allocated already. FWIW, on the Windows machine with LiveScrube, I actually got
a clue to the problem because there was some curious events being logged when the EiBotBoard
was plugged in.
Good Hunting!
Dan
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "EggBotUser" group.
> To post to this group, send email to eggbo...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to eggbotuser+...@googlegroups.com.
Brian Schmalz
Work www.logicpd.com
From: Dan Newman <dan.n...@mtbaldy.us>
To: Brian Schmalz <brian_...@yahoo.com>
Cc: eggbo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [EggBot] Need assistance and technical suggestions - Windows 7 and EggBot
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to eggbotuser+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/eggbotuser?hl=en.
>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "EggBotUser" group.
To post to this group, send email to eggbo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to eggbotuser+unsub...@googlegroups.com.