Insurance query

[annerob...@aol.com]

Hi Everyone.

Does anyone know how to find an insurer that will cover working online in Uganda? I have been asked to continue sessions online with a client moving back there, but my insurance company will only cover UK, EU, EEA countries and Switzerland, but they wouldn’t recommend another company. I am with PPS. 

Another former client also approached me from Australia, so that brings up the same issue of working legally abroad. The BACP is very general and basically points me back to the insurance company and didn’t offer any specific advice when I called them. 

Not sure  where to go next. Any advice would be much appreciated!

Many thanks,

Anne

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[niap...@gmail.com]

Try Oxygen Insurance.  They offer worldwide cover except for North America.

Best.

Nia Pryde

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[annerob...@aol.com]

Thank you Nia!🙏 Will check them out. 

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[Jo Hilton]

Hi

Apart from insurance it’s worth looking at GDPR issues and ensuring that your contract is clear about where data is processed.

Jo

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Jo Hilton

[annerob...@aol.com]

Thank you Jo,  yes I realised that needs to be addressed too. Are others working with clients abroad? New territory for me, so I am trying to make sure I am not missing anything. 

Hope everyone is keeping safe and well. Anne

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[S Balaram]

Hi Anne

This was the response I got from my insurance company.

'Good Morning,

Thank you for your email.

We can confirm you are able to work with abroad clients as long as you do not have any assets abroad, e.g. an address or bank account.

Your contract with the client must be in line with UK law which is currently applicable to you.

You must also inform all abroad clients that you are based in the UK and governed by UK jurisdiction. For your information, any claim would need to have been brought against you in the UK for the policy to respond.

I hope this helps.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,

The Team

Holistic Insurance Services'

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From: eft-tr...@googlegroups.com <eft-tr...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jo Hilton <johi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 2:53 PM
To: EFT-tr...@googlegroups.com <EFT-tr...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Insurance query

 

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[annerob...@aol.com]

Many thanks for sharing this. My insurer said to be careful when looking for a new insurer, as if a complaint was raised in another country I would need to be sure of those laws, as I could be liable in their country.  Of course, we all hope it’s not going to happen at all, but it does seem to be  a bit of a minefield! A

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[Dominique Walterson]

Hi Anne, 

I would advise extreme caution when working with clients abroad. The insurance issue is one side of the problem; the other side is local legislation. Because the client is located in another country, the laws of that country will protect the therapist's client and the services they receive. The local laws  might strictly regulate who is allowed to offer psychotherapy. Specific qualifications may be required, registration with a licensing body, local insurance, local privacy processes etc. The fact that the therapist is abroad and using video link, does not make them immune to local laws. Every country, even every state, will have its own laws and regulations in this area. It is therefore impossible to say in broad terms whether it is OK to offer therapy to clients abroad via video link. 

The disclaimer suggested by the insurer above is nice, but it cannot exonerate the therapist from following local laws and would not bind a local judge. By offering therapy without being locally licensed, some strict countries might consider the therapist is committing a criminal offence . The likelihood of getting 'caught' may be small, but the risk is real and the consequences could be severe.

It would be possible to minimise risk by consulting the regulations of the specific country where the client is located. This could be done by contacting a local regulatory body for psychotherapists or a local lawyer. The former might give the necessary information for free. Obviously, if the therapy is a temporary arrangement (eg during holidays) the risk is smaller than in the case of long-term therapy. 

Hope this helps,

Dominique

PS I used to be a lawyer in Brussels, specialising in public & health law.

[annerob...@aol.com]

Hi Dominique,

This was my worry actually, and exactly what my own insurer was cautioning against. They said it would be important to be sure to be covered under the law of the particular country as well as in UK law, so to really check out what any UK insurer was offering. I don’t feel that our own professional bodies have given enough guidance on these issues. 

Many thanks for your help.

Anne

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[Barbara Jukes]

Thanks for your comprehensive reply Dominique. Whilst this issue doesn’t affect me at the moment, it’s still really useful to know. (Never say never!) 

Best wishes 

Barbara 

On 23 Nov 2020, at 17:32, Dominique Walterson <dominique...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[BINDER, Carol (LINCOLNSHIRE PARTNERSHIP NHS FOUNDATION TRUST)]

Thank you J

 

Kindest Regards

Carol

Carol Binder. Rmbacp, Cfd

Counsellor

 

Steps2change lpft

Stamford Resource Centre

St Georges Avenue

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Lincolnshire

Pe9 1un

Tel;01476 858333

Fax;01780 757193

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[Lorna Carrick]

Hi All,

 

I have also contacted My insurer, Towergate, and explained my concern I spoke to a person on the phone and explained that one of my clients has recently decided to stay in Japan and that I wanted to check the insurance cover and legal position if anything happened there. The insurance agent aids immediately that I am covered as my insurance is in this country as long as I am GDPR complian ect. She said that they cover me for all media. I questioned this and she was quite sure that there were no issues. I asked her to send this information in an email and have not heard back from her since early this morning. I will be calling them back tomorrow. I wonder if Robert could throw any further light on this?

 

Lorna

 

Lorna Carrick

Counselling Courses Programme Director

School of Psycholgical Sciences and Health

Faculty of Health and Social Sciences

40 George Street

Glasgow

G1 1QE

TEL: 0141-548-3622    Email: lorna....@strath.ac.uk

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[Richard Golsworthy]

Hi Lorna and all,

This is perhaps not directly relevant to your situation, but about the EU, although I imagine the same principles may apply elsewhere.  

I note that the problem of providing services to clients in the EU has been made considerably more complex by the imminent end of the BREXIT transition period, following which the UK will not be abiding by any EU legislation.  Although the UK agreed at an early point that personal data could continue to be transferred to the EU (given GDPR protections), the EU has not done the same for the UK, and it is unclear whether or not they will do before the 1st of January (or at all). 

What I think this means for us, in the absence of an EU ruling of the ‘adequacy’ of UK data protection, is that if we have clients based in the EU, we may need to set up additional legal safeguards to protect client data which we hold in the UK.  I understand (see attachment) that this would include the IP address of a client through which an online session would be routed.  So even if (as is the case for me) your online practice management software is housed in EU servers, you may still hold ‘personal data’ of individuals based in the EU on your UK-based computer.  (Apologies if this is all a bit convoluted, but it is).  

The ICO help seems very much directed at businesses (who would have/be a data controller) rather than individuals, such as the people we might see as clients.  However, if you do any remote work to the EU, it seems important to be aware of this as well as the legal and insurance issues that others have already highlighted.  It’s not clear to me what would be expected of us.

If anyone has the expertise to provide information or reassurance on this issue, I’d be delighted to hear it!

Best wishes

Richard