Hermiston gait Retail Park - parking fines
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
I just received an £80 parking fine for parking more than 2 hours in the
car-park at Hermiston Gait, while shopping there about ten days ago.
There's an automatic number plate recognition system, it appears, that
records when you come & go and then uses the DVLA database to issue fines to
the registered keepers of the cars concerned. (How come a private
car-parking company has access to DVLA information?)
The fine-notice letters look very much like the sort that parking attendants
issue in the city, but presumably don't have the same sort of legal backing
- or do they? Does anyone know?
I was at the B&Q store and it appears that if I send copies of the fine
letter and a receipt showing I was actually buying things at B&Q, to B&Q, I
might not have to pay the fine. But it seems to me that at a /Retail Park/,
it would be easy to spend more than 2 hours browsing in several stores, or
not to have kept receipts, and how then would you prove you'd been there as
a real or potential customer? It makes me think I might never go there
again. How does that help the stores there?
The fine-letter says that there are signs at Hermiston gait telling people
that you can't stay longer than 2 hours. If that's the case, I for one had
not noticed them. But then, it's not normal to expect that sort of thing at
a /Retail Park/, is it? I doubt very much most of the people who park there
are aware of the time-limit. I think it's being done to discourage people
from treating the Retail Park's car-park as a free alternative to
Park-and-Ride. It seems to me that there needs to be some very big, very
clear signs at the entrance to each store reminding customers of the
problem, or perhaps (like the Fountainbridge cinema complex) tickets that
can be validated for free-parking. As it stands at the moment, it seems to
be an obscene revenue generation scheme: "Let's make our paying customers
foam at the mouth...".
Also, the Hermiston Gait website incorrectly says there's 3 hours free
parking, though that makes no difference from my point of view because I
only found the website today.
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Graeme Wood
(How come a private
> car-parking company has access to DVLA information?)
Anyone can access DVLA information provided they can prove that they
have a reasonable reason for doing so. Private car park operators have a
reasonable reason for doing so.
Ian
<jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> The fine-notice letters look very much like the sort that parking attendants
> issue in the city, but presumably don't have the same sort of legal backing
> - or do they? Does anyone know?
If the car parking company have claim against anyone, it is against
the river who parked there. They hve no claim against the keeper of
the vehicle: neither has the keeper of the vehicle any legal
obligation to tell them who was using the car at the time.
Ian
Sam Nelson
jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk says...
> Beware!
>
> I just received an £80 parking fine for parking more than 2 hours in the
> car-park at Hermiston Gait, while shopping there about ten days ago.
You write a "stick your fine demand where the sun don't shine" letter,
and send it to whoever runs the car-park and CC it to the manager of
every shop there you can think of. How do they propose to prevent you
parking there again? There are apparently similar restrictions imposed
on supermarket car-parks hereabouts, but it beats me how they propose to
enforce that. There's a problem with clamping on private land in
Scotland, isn't there?
--
SAm.
Anthony Cunningham
> There's a problem with clamping on private land in Scotland, isn't there?
Clamping vehicles is illegal in Scotland. I don't see that as a
problem.
Richard Tobin
Sam Nelson <s...@ssrl.org.uk> wrote:
>enforce that. There's a problem with clamping on private land in
>Scotland, isn't there?
Private clamping is considered conversion, and charging for release
is extortion.
-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.
Sam Nelson
ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk says...
> In article <MPG.23167cc03...@news.zen.co.uk>,
> Sam Nelson <s...@ssrl.org.uk> wrote:
> >enforce that. There's a problem with clamping on private land in
> >Scotland, isn't there?
>
> Private clamping is considered conversion, and charging for release
> is extortion.
Thanks. I did mean it as a problem for the clampeR, not clampeE.
--
SAm.
Gordon Hudson
> In article <MPG.23167cc036e2767f989...@news.zen.co.uk>,
I thought it was technically theft because it was depriving you of the
use of your property?
It still doesn't stop people putting up "clamping in operation" signs
when clearly they aren't clamping.
I suppose its a deterrent.
Some branches of McDonalds have a one hour parking lint with a £150
fine which they will reduce to £75 if you complain.
It seems like a lot of shops and retail developments want to have
their cake and eat it.
Richard Tobin
Gordon Hudson <gordonh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>I thought it was technically theft because it was depriving you of the
>use of your property?
As I understand it, in Scottish law, you are "converting" someone
else's property to your own use. For it to be theft, you would have
to take it away.
Mike Dickson
> I thought it was technically theft because it was depriving you of the
> use of your property?
Theft has to be the permanent deprivation of the property, not a mere
inconvenience.
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
Free Music Project: http://www.last.fm/music/Mike+Dickson
Or http://www.mikedickson.org.uk/
Zimmy
Hold off paying and see what they threaten next.
Z
"Jeremy Nicoll - news posts" <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote
in message news:gemini.k5wq2...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid...
Sam Nelson
"Zimmy" <x@y.z> writes:
> 2 hours seems ridiculously short as you might go to several shops there.
> Hold off paying and see what they threaten next.
I wouldn't under any circumstances pay them, let alone `hold off'. What
are they going to do?
--
SAm.
Geoff
"Sam Nelson" <s...@ssrl.org.uk> wrote in message
news:2nl2o5-...@nntp.stir.ac.uk...
It can´t be a fine - it is a commercial charge no laws apply - let them sue
you for it.
Oddfeld
<jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> I just received an £80 parking fine for parking more than 2 hours in the
> car-park at Hermiston Gait, while shopping there about ten days ago.
Penalty charges from private companies aren't really that enforcable.
You haven't broken any law, you *may* have breached some sort of
implied contract, but that is about as legally binding as a shrinkwrap
licensing agreement and you can probably just claim you didn't see the
signs etc. In particular, they can't just issue a fine to the
registered keeper of the vehicle, unless they can prove they were the
driver at the time. If you dispute the charge, they may well pass your
details on to a debt collection agency, but the thing to do is write
to the private parking company to complain and tell them why you're
not paying, then if it goes further you can tell the debt collection
agency that the charge is in dispute with the issuer and they will
back off. If they pursue the matter you will probably have more cause
of action against them for things like issuing lookalike summons
without county court backing and forcing you into dodgy contracts with
overinflated damages, than they will have against you to secure
payment.
If it ever did go to court, you have a number of defences - check out
the fightback forums at http://forums.pepipoo.com for success stories.
In particular, check out this bit about private parking companies:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autocom=ibwiki&cmd=article&id=56
Mike Dickson
> I wouldn't under any circumstances pay them, let alone `hold off'. What
> are they going to do?
Possibly contact a debt recovery agency who pursue the matter on their
behalf, regardless of the rights and wrongs associated with it. Having
these humourless venal cocksuckers on your case is enough to get your
credit looking shaky to anyone else in the future.
Geoff
"Oddfeld" <odd...@ieatcatsforfun.com> wrote in message
news:89e4f260-3d80-49b4...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
I thought private clamping was illegal in Scotland (where we don´t have
counties let alone county courts)
Ian
> If it ever did go to court, you have a number of defences - check out
> the fightback forums athttp://forums.pepipoo.comfor success stories.
Beware. Pepipoo is full of saloon bar lawyers and people with bright
ideas which a friend of a friend of a cousin of a bloke he met in the
pub tried and it worked perfectly for him. It's the equivalent of "Go
on, hit him. I'll hold your coat"
> In particular, check out this bit about private parking companies:http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?autocom=ibwiki&cmd=article&id=56
Written by an "Advisor in Criminal Law" ... what qualifications does
one need, I wonder, to be an "Advisor in Criminal Law"
Ian
Windmill
>Possibly contact a debt recovery agency who pursue the matter on their
>behalf, regardless of the rights and wrongs associated with it. Having
>these humourless venal cocksuckers on your case is enough to get your
>credit looking shaky to anyone else in the future.
Being without tenants last year got me into a situation where I
couldn't pay the fairly recently doubled Council Tax on empty property.
I found that my answering machine was receiving pre-recorded
threatening messages from Scott & Co., and also a message from a live
person who sounded as though he was in Mumbai.
So I agree with your general description of organisations of this
general type.
Even worse when it is an organisation with some legal standing.
It doesn't *seem* to have affected my credit rating, but that might
only mean that I don't have access to the right database (which is
probably on a memory stick somewhere; different rules seem to apply to
these people).
--
Windmill, Really t m i l l
Til...@Nonetel.com @ O n e t e l
. c o m
Windmill
>If the car parking company have claim against anyone, it is against
>the river who parked there.
The rainfall must have been worse than I realised!
Graeme Wood
> Ian <ian.g...@btinternet.com> writes:
>
>> If the car parking company have claim against anyone, it is against
>> the river who parked there.
>
> The rainfall must have been worse than I realised!
>
use by the people of Edinburgh anyway. It is almost impossible to get to
if you live in Edinburgh and useless for anyone travelling by public
transport. It seems to have been designed to cater for people living in
Linlithgow.
John Hunt
photo (Pixifoto in Mothercare) as a present for my mum. My dad had had a
minor stroke the week before so we wandered over to B&Q as he didn't feel
like standing for the 30 mins or so it takes them to get the photos ready to
view.
We came back, got the photos, bought stuff for my son's first birthday in
Mothercare and went off home. About 10 days later we got a threatening
letter demanding £80. I pretty much told them where to go but they sent
another letter with 2 photos of my car on a road which they claimed clearly
showed me entering and leaving HG. Both photos were not much bigger than
thumbnails and could be taken anywhere. The enlargement of my number plate
could have been doctored it was so poor an image.
I sent a second letter explaining I was legitimately shopping there (it was
a Sunday) and eventually they sent me a third letter asking for proof I'd
been shopping there. That was 3 weeks ago and I threatened to take them to
the police for harassment in the last letter (pretending their letters are
for a criminal offence and then obtaining details by deception to pursue a
claim). I haven't heard back since.
Interestingly The BCS (Brit Comp Soc) lawyer service said that I had
technically entered a contract with them by parking there and didn't have a
leg to stand on but the council Trading Standards put me in touch with a
Consumer Protection bunch who said that their signs had to be clearly
visible, look how clear they are:
http://flickr.com/photos/upload/done/?b=1219618567-1219618567-90602653@N00
Just keep complaining!
"Jeremy Nicoll - news posts" <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote
in message news:gemini.k5wq2...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid...
G Bell
>2 hours seems ridiculously short as you might go to several shops there.
>Hold off paying and see what they threaten next.
Obviously they think all their customers resemble the "Fat Bastard"
character in the Austin Powers' movies and expect you will be too
fecking lazy to park in the same spot and over a matter of hours walk
between the different outlets you wish to visit, stop for coffee, pop
into Pizza Hut, etc. Seems to be they are punishing you for not being a
lazy git.
Graham
Sam Wilson
"John Hunt" <mapsonj...@johnmhunt.com> wrote:
> ... council Trading Standards put me in touch with a
> Consumer Protection bunch who said that their signs had to be clearly
> visible, look how clear they are:
> http://flickr.com/photos/upload/done/?b=1219618567-1219618567-90602653@N00
You seem to have to log into Yahoo! to see the signs - I wouldn't have
said that was clearly visible.
Sam
Halmyre
mapsonj...@johnmhunt.com says...
I think your URL is for uploading your photographs - not for viewing...
--
Halmyre
That's you that is.
Zimmy
"Jeremy Nicoll - news posts" <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote
in message news:gemini.k5wq2...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid...
> Beware!
>
> I just received an £80 parking fine for parking more than 2 hours in the
> car-park at Hermiston Gait, while shopping there about ten days ago.
I read the sign on Friday, IRC it reduces to £50 if you pay within 14 days
and if you don't pay, it says it will go up to £115 to cover debt
collection/solicitors fees apparently. Even worse, you are not allowed to
return within 2 hours! What if you forget to buy something at B&Q? Out of
opening hours the time limit reduces to 15 minutes.
This is just a clamping scam by a high tech method, they don't even have to
pay clampers and know that most people will just pay up as they will be
afraid of getting on a credit blacklist.
Its so easy to spend 2 hours or more there especially if you go for a coffee
or, dare I say it, more than one shop. I can't believe that the retailers
are happy about this as they are sure to lose business when people get too
afraid to hang around. It should be 4 hours at least if they want people to
shop there.
Z
Zimmy
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/BQ-39sorry39-as-shopper-wrongly.4148982.jp
Z
Iain Turnbull
> Another interestng story:
>
> http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/BQ-39sorry39-as-shopper-wrongly.4148982.jp
From what I've read here, I certainly won't ever be going back to
Hermiston Gait - shopping in these places is a big enough pain in the
ass without having to worry about legalised extortion.
--
Iain Turnbull
Your home may be at risk if you set fire to it
Terms and conditions apply
Alan
"Iain Turnbull" <iaintu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1dOdnU3hPcOEsinV...@bt.com...
> Zimmy wrote:
>> Another interestng story:
>>
>> http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/BQ-39sorry39-as-shopper-wrongly.4148982.jp
>
> From what I've read here, I certainly won't ever be going back to
> Hermiston Gait - shopping in these places is a big enough pain in the ass
> without having to worry about legalised extortion.
>
Its not legal in that they will not be able to get a judgement against you.
There has never been a successful case that has been defended yet. What
happens is that they threaten all sorts of things including legal action and
might even issue the documentation but on the day they will not turn up at
court.
alan
Ian
> Another interestng story:
>
I liked this bit:
++++++++
Whether the notices issued by parking contractors are legally
enforceable is something of a "grey area" but parking campaigner
Barrie Segal is adamant they are not.
He said: "There are a number of issues – from the letters looking like
genuine parking tickets to the signage in these private car parks –
which make this a grey area."
++++++++
So is he "adamant that they are not [legally enforceable]" or is it "a
grey area"?
Ian
Sam Nelson
iaintu...@hotmail.com says...
> Zimmy wrote:
> > Another interestng story:
> >
> > http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/BQ-39sorry39-as-shopper-wrongly.4148982.jp
>
> From what I've read here, I certainly won't ever be going back to
> Hermiston Gait - shopping in these places is a big enough pain in the
> ass without having to worry about legalised extortion.
Maybe the thing to do is to write to the parking company and say `tell
you what, you forget this `fine' and I won't ever visit the wretched
place again: how's that for a deal?". CC is to every retailer in the
place, of course.
--
SAm.
John Hunt
"John Hunt" <mapsonj...@johnmhunt.com> wrote in message
news:ZTlsk.47642$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>I got hit by this lot as well while we were at Hermiston Gate for a family
>photo (Pixifoto in Mothercare) as a present for my mum. My dad had had a
>minor stroke the week before so we wandered over to B&Q as he didn't feel
>like standing for the 30 mins or so it takes them to get the photos ready
>to view.
>
ahem, http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmhunt/2794469408/ - it was late when
I posted it....
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> Hermiston Gait isn't designed for use by the people of Edinburgh anyway.
> It is almost impossible to get to if you live in Edinburgh...
You can now get there from the Sighthill industrial estate; the old back way
from the west end of the estate back past the RM sorting centre and various
garages to the Calder Rd route now allows you to drive north past the back
of various HG stores, turn left (West) and reach the HG roundabout.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Since getting the fine I've been back to the B&Q and made my feelings known.
Hopefully the fine is no-more.
This time around I read the signs... It turns out that not only are you not
meant to stay in the whole retail park for more than 2 hours, but once you
go, you;re not meant to come back inside 2 hours. That'll hurt when just as
you're driving out you remember you meant also to buy a widget and turn
round and go back for it...
As far as I could see the ANPR cameras are basically at the roundabout, so
it really does record you arriving at/leaving the whole area.
Windmill
>Obviously they think all their customers resemble the "Fat Bastard"
>character in the Austin Powers' movies and expect you will be too
>fecking lazy to park in the same spot and over a matter of hours walk
>between the different outlets you wish to visit, stop for coffee, pop
>into Pizza Hut, etc. Seems to be they are punishing you for not being a
>lazy git.
Someone commented on the inconvenience of Hermiston Gait.
The Post Office must have been listening - they're relocating the
Roseburn mail collection place to South Gyle.
Graeme Wood
long walk. And for those who do have a car, it is hardly the most
obvious route and I'm not aware that it is even sign-posted.
Graeme Wood
> gb...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk (G Bell) writes:
>
>> Obviously they think all their customers resemble the "Fat Bastard"
>> character in the Austin Powers' movies and expect you will be too
>> fecking lazy to park in the same spot and over a matter of hours walk
>> between the different outlets you wish to visit, stop for coffee, pop
>> into Pizza Hut, etc. Seems to be they are punishing you for not being a
>> lazy git.
>
> Someone commented on the inconvenience of Hermiston Gait.
>
> The Post Office must have been listening - they're relocating the
> Roseburn mail collection place to South Gyle.
Indeed. It makes no sense. However, it is at least on the bus route,
which the main sorting office is not. And the day after they sent the
leaflet saying that they were improving our service by closing the local
office, they sent another letter saying they were closing all the post
offices in the Gorgie/Shandon/Slateford area, so even if you requested
delivery to a local post office, you would still have to travel just as
far to collect it. Yeah, that's a great improvement.
Sam Nelson
The charge for redelivering to an alternate address, etc., is carefully
designed to dovetail with this measure for purposes of revenue generation.
--
SAm.
TheMgt
Alan
"TheMgt" <the...@morningstar.eu.org> wrote in message
news:g96n7e$atd$1...@news2.open-news-network.org...
The bit at the sharp bend of Bankhead Drive is for buses only, however if
you continue up Bankhead Drive southwards, turn right into Seafield Road
East and then drive northwards on Cultins Road you emerge at the other end
of the bus only section.
alan
John Hunt
then just walk backwards and forwards with it generating multiple false
reads of the database or just walk out so the camera sees the plate leaving
then you leave later and it probably isn't clever enough to record you
leaving if it hasn't got you coming in.
I like to make these miserable b*stards lives as awkward as possible!
"Jeremy Nicoll - news posts" <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote
in message news:gemini.k6a7o...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid...
Zimmy
>I wondered if you could go to Halfords and get a number plate made up and
>then just walk backwards and forwards with it generating multiple false
>reads of the database or just walk out so the camera sees the plate leaving
>then you leave later and it probably isn't clever enough to record you
>leaving if it hasn't got you coming in.
>
> I like to make these miserable b*stards lives as awkward as possible!
How about just covering up your plates? wouldn't that be legal on private
land?
...even if it flags up an error and some ParkingEye goblin matches up the
car with no plates from the video, how would they contact you? Next time you
did it though, an army of ParkingEye orcs would probably storm out of the
B&Q goods entrance and attack your car.
Z
M Holmes
> I wondered if you could go to Halfords and get a number plate made up and
> then just walk backwards and forwards with it generating multiple false
> reads of the database
Better still, find out the number plate of the head of the company first...
FoFP
Sam Nelson
A vehicle registration document has to be produced to get a number plate
these days, hasn't it?
--
SAm.
Graeme Dods
news:rn5lo5-...@nntp.stir.ac.uk:
But not to chop up a bit of cardboard and write on it with a big felt tip
pen.
--
Graeme
M Holmes
Well yes, but if you bought a bunch of plate characters and velcroed
them to a board before walking past, would the cameras be able to tell
you weren't a legitimate licence plate?
I suspect they just aren't that clever. Just possibly they might have
metal detection though...
FoFP
Ian
> A vehicle registration document has to be produced to get a number plate
> these days, hasn't it?
Not, I believe, in Scotland, although the big places like Halfords
don't differentiate ...
Ian
Alan
"Sam Nelson" <s...@ssrl.org.uk> wrote in message
news:rn5lo5-...@nntp.stir.ac.uk...
Nope, I just ordered my by mail order from http://www.aplates.com/ they
dropped through my letterbox then I was not at home about three days later.
I did pay by credit card so I suppose they have some sort of record as to
who ordered them. I certainly didn't send them any vechicle documents.
alan
John Hunt
Halfords a few years back. the conversation went like this:
I'd like a number plate for a bike carrier.
What style would you like? (Points to 5 different fonts)
Aren't they all illegal apart from that one?
Yeh...which one do you want?
Er the only one that's legal, bearing in mind I'm doing this so I don't get
stopped 'cos my number plate can't be seen when the bike's on the car.
If you're sure....
"Ian" <ian.g...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3717579e-7526-461c...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> s...@ssrl.org.uk (Sam Nelson) wrote in
> news:rn5lo5-...@nntp.stir.ac.uk:
> > A vehicle registration document has to be produced to get a number
> > plate these days, hasn't it?
>
> But not to chop up a bit of cardboard and write on it with a big felt tip
> pen.
Hmmm. You quite often see number plates with eg truck-driver's names on
them. I know someone with their initials and house number on a numbler
plate, and that bolted to their wheelie bin. Maybe I could borrow the bin
and trundle that in & out of Hermiston Gait. Though, the plate is mounted
vertically on the bin so might not be recognised, and if that's the case, we
could get around the HG problem by coming and going with thecar on its side.
Wheely-ing, in fact.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
It's because it's not obvious that you've been told here! As for not being
sign-posted, so what? Lots of routes from a to b aren't sign-posted. The
thing is that it works - one no longer has to drive from Calder Rd to the
Gogar roundabout and come all the way back to get into HG.
Jack Campin - bogus address
> then just walk backwards and forwards with it generating multiple false
> reads of the database or just walk out so the camera sees the plate leaving
> then you leave later and it probably isn't clever enough to record you
> leaving if it hasn't got you coming in.
Or make 50 paper copies of the same plate, tape them randomly over
number plates in the park, and watch their system attempt to figure
out how a car could arrive once and leave 50 times.
==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
Mike Dickson
> A vehicle registration document has to be produced to get a number plate
> these days, hasn't it?
Nope. Never has been.
--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
Free Music Project: http://www.last.fm/music/Mike+Dickson
Or http://www.mikedickson.org.uk/
Jim Mason
forename...@geemail.com says...
> Sam Nelson wrote:
>
> > A vehicle registration document has to be produced to get a number plate
> > these days, hasn't it?
>
> Nope. Never has been.
Proof of address is `meant` to be needed.
--
http://www.glasgow-edinburgh.co.uk/
Graeme Wood
Since I knew the route beforehand, I didn't need to be told. And you are
arguing a point that was nothing to do with the point I was making,
which was that the retail park is architected to make it difficult for
the residents of Edinburgh to access it. It is clearly designed for
people entering from the M8 or going south on the bypass. If you are
coming from central or south-west Edinburgh, you have to know to double
back on yourself and enter via a non-obvious back-road. It's hardly a
great retail experience if the first thing you have to do is get lost in
South Gyle industrial estate.
Ian
> Sam Nelson wrote:
> > A vehicle registration document has to be produced to get a number plate
> > these days, hasn't it?
>
> Nope. Never has been.
In England and Wales you need the V5C or one of a range of other
documents. Although the DVLA website doesn't say, I beleive this
doesn't apply in Scotland.
See
Or go to www.dvla.gov.uk -> Information about Vehicles -> How to get a
number plate.
Ian
Mike Dickson
> Since I knew the route beforehand, I didn't need to be told. And you are
> arguing a point that was nothing to do with the point I was making,
> which was that the retail park is architected to make it difficult for
> the residents of Edinburgh to access it.
A71 --> Hermiston Gait roundabout --> retail experience. Hardly 'difficult'.
> It's hardly a
> great retail experience if the first thing you have to do is get lost in
> South Gyle industrial estate.
I concur that it's 'hardly a great retail experience' but that has a lot
to do with the shops being rubbish. And on that topic and that of the
car park, when was the last time it was full to the point where they
needed to get cars out after 2 hours anyway?
Ronald Raygun
> Graeme Wood wrote:
>
>> Since I knew the route beforehand, I didn't need to be told. And you are
>> arguing a point that was nothing to do with the point I was making,
>> which was that the retail park is architected to make it difficult for
>> the residents of Edinburgh to access it.
>
> A71 --> Hermiston Gait roundabout --> retail experience. Hardly
> 'difficult'.
No. Although you can get directly from the HG roundabout to the A71
roundabout, you can't go directly the other way.
The only way to the HG roundabout from the bypass is by taking an exit
which comes before the access from the A71. This is true for both
northbound and southbound. This means that coming from the A71 you
either have to go North to Gogar and back, or South to Dreghorn
and back, or by the unofficial route round the back.
Mike Dickson
>> A71 --> Hermiston Gait roundabout --> retail experience. Hardly
>> 'difficult'.
>
> No. Although you can get directly from the HG roundabout to the A71
> roundabout, you can't go directly the other way.
Yeah, you're right.
It's still a shithole hardly worth bothering about though.
Zimmy
> Oddly enough I remember I got a number plate made up for a bike carrier in
> Halfords a few years back. the conversation went like this:
>
> I'd like a number plate for a bike carrier.
> What style would you like? (Points to 5 different fonts)
> Aren't they all illegal apart from that one?
> Yeh...which one do you want?
> Er the only one that's legal, bearing in mind I'm doing this so I don't
> get stopped 'cos my number plate can't be seen when the bike's on the car.
> If you're sure....
Judging by the number of weird/tiny fonts, and various other 'doctorings' to
make words that I see on number plates these days, I can only conclude that
the police don't bother enforcing that particular law, nor the one about
heavily tinted front windows either.
Its probably safer and less stressful to risk a polite warning from the
police about your number plate than have it recognised by these parking
rip-off merchants.
Z
Zimmy
"Mike Dickson" <forename...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:6i0bftF...@mid.individual.net...
> Ronald Raygun wrote:
>
>
>>> A71 --> Hermiston Gait roundabout --> retail experience. Hardly
>>> 'difficult'.
>>
>> No. Although you can get directly from the HG roundabout to the A71
>> roundabout, you can't go directly the other way.
>
> Yeah, you're right.
>
> It's still a shithole hardly worth bothering about though.
The back road entrance is very welcome (I only learned about it a few weeks
ago), people used to park at the delivery entrances on the Sighthill side
and walk through. Shame its not two way and better advertised.
Hermiston Gait has been a half-baked setup since day one, and sounds like an
affliction. I used to not bother about it, but its the only B&Q in the area
now, and I must have my DIY/Gardening fix. :-)
There's also a big Tesco going to be opening where Homebase used to be, so
HG now has the potential to be a useful and popular place, so of course the
management have to spoil it by hiring parking cowboys. Its almost like they
don't want people to go there.
Z
Graeme Wood
> The back road entrance is very welcome (I only learned about it a few weeks
> ago), people used to park at the delivery entrances on the Sighthill side
> and walk through. Shame its not two way and better advertised.
>
> Hermiston Gait has been a half-baked setup since day one, and sounds like an
> affliction. I used to not bother about it, but its the only B&Q in the area
> now, and I must have my DIY/Gardening fix. :-)
Yes that's mainly why I am so pissed off with it. I used to have two
B&Qs close to me. Both within walking distance. Both on major bus
routes. Now I have none except for this one in Hermiston Gait, which is
hard to get to. The only other option is to go to the small one on the
other end of the 35 bus route at Easter Road. I think there may be a
way of cutting through from South Gyle Crescent from the bus stop there
on a footpath to Edinburgh Park station, but I haven't quite figured
out the route yet. It's still a bit of a hike from there to B&Q though.
Mike
> way of cutting through from South Gyle Crescent from the bus stop there
> on a footpath to Edinburgh Park station, but I haven't quite figured
> out the route yet. It's still a bit of a hike from there to B&Q though.
underpass and you are there.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> Since I knew the route beforehand, I didn't need to be told.
[snip]
> And you are arguing a point that was nothing to do with the point I was
> making, which was that the retail park is architected to make it difficult
> for the residents of Edinburgh to access it.
Yes, but the new method of getting to it has made it a great deal easier.
> It is clearly designed for people entering from the M8 or going south on
> the bypass. If you are coming from central or south-west Edinburgh, you
> have to know to double back on yourself and enter via a non-obvious
> back-road. It's hardly a great retail experience if the first thing you
> have to do is get lost in South Gyle industrial estate.
Who brought South Gyle into the equation? The back road (which you claim
already to know about) that I described is from the Sighthill industrial
estate.
Mike Dickson
> There's also a big Tesco going to be opening where Homebase used to be
Wooo. Just what Edinburgh needs.
M Holmes
> Zimmy wrote:
>> There's also a big Tesco going to be opening where Homebase used to be
> Wooo. Just what Edinburgh needs.
I did notice that they're planning to change their "Ten Items or Less"
signs, which have always irritated me. Sadly they're not changing them
to "Ten Items or Fewer".
FoFP
Zimmy
"M Holmes" <fo...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:g9j5nr$m80$8...@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
Perhaps they could make the signs really small and then get ParkingEye to
install cameras to automatically catch everyone using those tills with more
than ten items and fine them £80 (or £20 if they use their Tesco vouchers).
Z
Sam Wilson
M Holmes <fo...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
But they are sidestepping the issue quite neatly. "No More Than Ten
Items", isn't it?
Sam
Stewart Smith
Sainsburys have Ten Items or Fewer but Tescos have self serve checkouts
which reduce my interaction with people who think it's a great idea to
bend my bank card when it doesn't immediately work in the chip'n'pin reader.
Stewart
Stewart Smith
> Stewart Smith <nos...@ee.ed.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> Sainsburys have Ten Items or Fewer but Tescos have self serve
>> checkouts which reduce my interaction with people who think it's a
>> great idea to bend my bank card when it doesn't immediately work in
>> the chip'n'pin reader.
>
> never need to hand your card over. And Tesco policy, AIUI, is for staff
> not to handle your card.
>
That's usually the case but the last time this happened in Sainsburys, I
stuck my card in, it didn't work straight away so the girl started
wiggling it about and bending it. Just like they used to do when they
still swiped the damn things. I had a few cards back then that split
along the magnetic strip. I probably should have complained but I think
at the time I was just stunned that someone would do something like
that. I can't stand Tescos normally but I don't mind going in for bits
and pieces as the self service checkouts are great.
Stewart
M Holmes
> Sam Wilson <Sam.W...@ed.ac.uk> writes:
> "Up to 10 Items". (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7590440.stm)
Ah, but is that "inclusive" or "exclusive"?
FoFP
--
"They say there are no atheists in a foxhole. Well, there
are no libertarians in a financial crisis, either."
--Harvard economist Jeffrey Frankel
charles
Zimmy <x@y.z> wrote:
I have a much better idea. Double the price of the first item over 10,
quadruple it for the next one, etc. Offenders would soon get the message.
--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11
Zimmy
"Stewart Smith" <nos...@ee.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:g9jcqu$ml6$1...@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
> August West wrote:
>> Stewart Smith <nos...@ee.ed.ac.uk> writes:
>>
>>> Sainsburys have Ten Items or Fewer but Tescos have self serve
>>> checkouts which reduce my interaction with people who think it's a
>>> great idea to bend my bank card when it doesn't immediately work in
>>> the chip'n'pin reader.
>>
>> Why are they handling your card a tall? With chip and pin you should
>> never need to hand your card over. And Tesco policy, AIUI, is for staff
>> not to handle your card.
>>
In Morrisons today the woman rubbed the chip contacts with her greasy thumb
when it didn't work. After the third attempt the card gave-in and worked.
Can these cards be washed?
> I can't stand Tescos normally but I don't mind going in for bits and
> pieces as the self service checkouts are great.
The B&Q at Hermiston now has self service checkouts too. I was hesitant to
use them but the other tills (sorry "checkouts") were busy so I gave them a
go. I had quite a few heavy bags of sand which I didn't fancy lifting again
but fortunately they had a hand-held scanner. After scanning it said "Please
place the item in the bagging area" (or something like that) and would
proceed no further. After I gave her a pained expression, a daydreaming
assistant eventually came and did something with a key so I didn't have to
lift them.
Ah, the wonders of time saving technology.
Z
Ronald Raygun
> August West <aug...@kororaa.com> wrote:
>> Sam Wilson <Sam.W...@ed.ac.uk> writes:
>>> In article <g9j5nr$m80$8...@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>,
>>> M Holmes <fo...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I did notice that they're planning to change their "Ten Items or
>>>> Less" signs, which have always irritated me. Sadly they're not
>>>> changing them to "Ten Items or Fewer".
>>>
>>> But they are sidestepping the issue quite neatly. "No More Than Ten
>>> Items", isn't it?
>>
>> "Up to 10 Items". (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7590440.stm)
>
> Ah, but is that "inclusive" or "exclusive"?
Why do you think there is any doubt? Isn't it implicit in the "up to"
usage that it *must* be inclusive? I.e. "up to 10" means "not more than
10".
Windmill
>Sainsburys have Ten Items or Fewer but Tescos have self serve checkouts
>which reduce my interaction with people who think it's a great idea to
>bend my bank card when it doesn't immediately work in the chip'n'pin reader.
Not to mention reducing one's interaction with the staff who contrive
to ring through 'reduced' items at full price.
Then they have the gall to watch me suspiciously as I scan through my
shopping myself!
--
Windmill, Really t m i l l
Til...@Nonetel.com @ O n e t e l
. c o m