EcoSanRes: Questions about the agriculture side of ecosan
zandeetour
Dear all,
Some questions from the agriculture side of ecosan. Our organisation is working with some farmers here in Nepal who use urine as a fertiliser. Most of them report that since they started using urine they need less pesticides (as has been reported from other parts of the world). We think that this could be a major selling point in advocating urine use here, so my questions are related to this.
As far as I am aware there are 2 schools of thought here; the first one claims that the lower pesticide use is due to better overall plant health, which is in turn a result of the plants getting a better nutrient mix (complete fertiliser). There is also a second school that claims that there is or may be an other mechanism here by which the application of urine helps plants fight disease or pests. (In this light it is interesting to note that most of the organic fertilisers produced in Nepal are based on plants fermented in cow's urine.)
My first question is: Is there any research into this reported lower fertiliser use, and if so is there any conclusive evidence supporting one of the theories above?
My other question is related to plant nutrient requirements. In Esrey at al (2001) "Closing the loop-Ecological sanitation for everyone" there is some discussion in which roles various nutrients play in plant growth. Does anyone know of an other publication with more in-depth information of this?
Thanks in advance for any answers given.
Marijn Zandee
Dr. Robert J. Holmer
Dear Marijn Zandee,
in all our studies conducted in the Philippines using urine as a fertilizer/fertilizer supplement we could not verify the claim that urine application per se reduces the pest and disease pressure. This was also confirmed by our gardener collaborators.
However, the use of pesticides can be drastically reduced if one follows so-called 'good agricultural practices' such as using the right variety (adapted to the location/climate; with resistance/tolerance to the major diseases, etc.), transplanting a healthy seedling, crop rotation (avoid building up of pathogens), soil amelioration (adding of organic matter, soil solarization, green manuring etc.), field sanitation (removal and burning/digging of diseased plants parts), pest monitoring, etc.
Most of these practices are further described in detail in the Philippine Allotment Garden Manual which can be downloaded at http://puvep.xu.edu.ph/publications/AG%20Booklet_final.pdf
AVRDC - The World Vegetable Center has a wide array of extension materials on sustainable vegetable production practices for download at http://www.avrdc.org/index.php?id=28
Urine is just a liquid fertilizer but not a miracle product. It has to be integrated into a holistic system of sustainable production practices with corresponding safety barriers to be effective and safe.
Farming is a knowledge and labor intensive profession but never an easy job. It would be unfair and unethical to tell farmers that urine application alone can reduce pests and diseases without proper scientific evidence.
With best wishes from Bangkok
Robert
--- In ecos...@yahoogroups.com, "zandeetour" <zandeetour@...> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Some questions from the agriculture side of ecosan. Our organisation is working with some farmers here in Nepal who use urine as a fertiliser. Most of them report that since they started using urine they need less pesticides (as has been reported from other parts of the world). We think that this could be a major selling point in advocating urine use here, so my questions are related to this.
> As far as I am aware there are 2 schools of thought here; the first one claims that the lower pesticide use is due to better overall plant health, which is in turn a result of the plants getting a better nutrient mix (complete fertiliser). There is also a second school that claims that there is or may be an other mechanism here by which the application of urine helps plants fight disease or pests. (In this light it is interesting to note that most of the organic fertilisers produced in Nepal are based on plants fermented in cow's urine.)
> My first question is: Is there any research into this reported lower fertiliser use, and if so is there any conclusive evidence supporting one of the theories above?
>
> My other question is related to plant nutrient requirements. In Esrey at al (2001) "Closing the loop-Ecological sanitation for everyone" there is some discussion in which roles various nutrients play in plant growth. Does anyone know of an other publication with more in-depth information of this?
>
> Thanks in advance for any answers given.
>
> Marijn Zandee
>
Tamru Tessema
i am tamru ,from Ethiopia
i was tried to solve the problem with related to urine used as liquid ,by using solar evaporation and adsorption techniques ,
this trial was give good result for concentration of nutrients by 17 % original volume reduction 88 % N concentration and 10 % of N recovery as ionic form of nutrient fertilizers this was by solar concentration and
more than 920 mg/l N recovery as struvite precipitation ( solid fertilizer ) and 45 % N recovery as ammonium sulphate from natural zeolites adsorption .
if any one interested on this result well come
Tamru Tesseme
Tel .+251 9 13 91 11 10
Po.Box 21
Water Supply and Environmental engineering ( both BSc. and Msc.)
tessemetamru@yahoo.com
or
tessematamru@yahoo.com
From: Dr. Robert J. Holmer <rjholmer@yahoo.de>
To: ecosanres@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 8:43:00 AM
Subject: EcoSanRes: Re: Questions about the agriculture side of ecosan
Dear Marijn Zandee,
in all our studies conducted in the Philippines using urine as a fertilizer/fertilizer supplement we could not verify the claim that urine application per se reduces the pest and disease pressure. This was also confirmed by our gardener collaborators.
However, the use of pesticides can be drastically reduced if one follows so-called 'good agricultural practices' such as using the right variety (adapted to the location/climate; with resistance/tolerance to the major diseases, etc.), transplanting a healthy seedling, crop rotation (avoid building up of pathogens), soil amelioration (adding of organic matter, soil solarization, green manuring etc.), field sanitation (removal and burning/digging of diseased plants parts), pest monitoring, etc.
Most of these practices are further described in detail in the Philippine Allotment Garden Manual which can be downloaded at http://puvep.xu.edu.ph/publications/AG%20Booklet_final.pdf
AVRDC - The World Vegetable Center has a wide array of extension materials on sustainable vegetable production practices for download at http://www.avrdc.org/index.php?id=28
Urine is just a liquid fertilizer but not a miracle product. It has to be integrated into a holistic system of sustainable production practices with corresponding safety barriers to be effective and safe.
Farming is a knowledge and labor intensive profession but never an easy job. It would be unfair and unethical to tell farmers that urine application alone can reduce pests and diseases without proper scientific evidence.
With best wishes from Bangkok
Robert
--- In ecosanres@yahoogroups.com, "zandeetour" <zandeetour@...> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Some questions from the agriculture side of ecosan. Our organisation is working with some farmers here in Nepal who use urine as a fertiliser. Most of them report that since they started using urine they need less pesticides (as has been reported from other parts of the world). We think that this could be a major selling point in advocating urine use here, so my questions are related to this.
> As far as I am aware there are 2 schools of thought here; the first one claims that the lower pesticide use is due to better overall plant health, which is in turn a result of the plants getting a better nutrient mix (complete fertiliser). There is also a second school that claims that there is or may be an other mechanism here by which the application of urine helps plants fight disease or pests. (In this light it is interesting to note that most of the organic fertilisers produced in Nepal are based on plants fermented in cow's urine.)
> My first question is: Is there any research into this reported lower fertiliser use, and if so is there any conclusive evidence supporting one of the theories above?
>
> My other question is related to plant nutrient requirements. In Esrey at al (2001) "Closing the loop-Ecological sanitation for everyone" there is some discussion in which roles various nutrients play in plant growth. Does anyone know of an other publication with more in-depth information of this?
>
> Thanks in advance for any answers given.
>
> Marijn Zandee
>
zandeetour
Dear dr. Holmer,
Thank you for your reply, I am arriving (as most people) from the sanitation side of ecosan so having opinions from people with more experiance in the agriculture side is very welcome. I have downloaded the study from your work in the Philipines and am looking forward to reading it.
I agree that urine use is not a magic bullet and the reason I posted this question is exactly because thusfar I have not found any scientific verification of other benefits of urine then as a fertiliser. Did your team actually conduct systematic research of the question of reduced fertiliser need with urine use? Or was it more of a quantative analyses? If there are any research data that support the thesis that urine per se does not reduce the need for pesticedes (of any variety) then I would like to ask you to share these with me, if at all posible.
Kind regards
Marijn Zandee
--- In ecos...@yahoogroups.com, Tamru Tessema <tessematamru@...> wrote:
>
> Dear all
> i am tamru ,from Ethiopia
> i was tried to solve the problem with related to urine used as liquid ,by
> using solar evaporation and adsorption techniques ,
>
> this trial was give good result for concentration of nutrients by 17 % original
> volume reduction 88 % N concentration and 10 % of N recovery as ionic form
> of nutrient fertilizers this was by solar concentration and
>
> more than 920 mg/l N recovery as struvite precipitation ( solid fertilizer )
> and 45 % N recovery as ammonium sulphate from natural zeolites adsorption .
>
> if any one interested on this result well come
>
> Tamru Tesseme
> Tel .+251 9 13 91 11 10
> Po.Box 21
> Water Supply and Environmental engineering ( both BSc. and Msc.)
> tessemetamru@...
> or
> tessematamru@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dr. Robert J. Holmer <rjholmer@...>
> To: ecos...@yahoogroups.com
dena fam
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone has had any experience using the 'EnviroSystems' urine diversion flushing toilets from China, they've been installed in the Beijing Olympic Forest Park in China but we cant seem to find much more information about them....how many have been installed, how they perform in comparison to other UD toilets ect.
Any help with this would be appreciated
Regards
Dena
Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
Winker Martina GTZ 4412
Dear Marijn,
I am happy that you got so much more information related to your questionsvia the discussion form!
Aside, here some more information regarding your second question (which roles various nutrients play in plant growth). This is a topic with is summarised below the heading plant nutrition. You should be able to find an answer in a good standard work addressing this topic. Aside there are various webpages out there. Like this one: http://retirees.uwaterloo.ca/~jerry/orchids/nutri.html (but I don’t guarantee for its correctness!).
Yours, Martina.
Dr.-Ing. Martina Winker
Sustainable sanitation - ecosan program
Program Officer
Deutsche Gesellschaft für Technische
Zusammenarbeit (GTZ) GmbH
Postfach 5180
65726 Eschborn, Germany
Partner of the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance (www.susana.org)
To subscribe to our ecosan newsletter: http://www.gtz.de/en/25939.htm
Deutsche Gesellschaft fuer Technische Zusammenarbeit (GTZ) GmbH;
Sitz der Gesellschaft/Registered Office Eschborn/Taunus, Germany;
Registergericht/Registered at Amtsgericht Frankfurt am Main, Germany;
Eintragungs-Nr./Registration no. HRB 12394; USt-IdNr./VAT ID no. DE 113891176;
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates/Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Hans-Juergen Beerfeltz, Staatssekretaer/State Secretary;
Geschaeftsfuehrer/Managing Directors: Dr. Bernd Eisenblaetter (Sprecher/Chairman), Dr. Christoph Beier, Dr. Hans-Joachim Preuss
dena fam
Just wanted to share another great animation by one of the students working on our UD pilot project!
http://vimeo.com/13365354
Cheers
Dena
Looking for a hot date? View photos of singles in your area!
Elisabeth von Muench
Dear Dena,
Please tell the student(s) who made that 1.5 minute clip that he/she/they did a brilliant job here (http://vimeo.com/13365354)! Somehow I missed to view it when you posted it on 16 July and perhaps others missed it as well due to the holiday season. But it captures the problem of phosphorus shortage and the option of P recycling from pee really very well, I think.
Being an engineer, I am dead impressed what design people can up with! (and these are even "only" students!).
Well done for engaging these design schools and getting them interested. We have tried with some German universities here but found it quite hard - they have so many other interesting topics to make videos for.
Regards,
Elisabeth
P.S. I just saw that this forum now has over 700 members! Quite some growth we experienced there.
And on facebook, the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance now has over 500 friends, also not bad.
www.gtz.de/ecosan
www.susana.org (please check out the new features of our improved website!)
To: ecos...@yahoogroups.com; dana.c...@uts.edu.au
From: ground_...@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:51:51 +1000
Subject: EcoSanRes: RE: another Phosphorous animation by students working on the UD project at University of Tech Sydney
Just wanted to share another great animation by one of the students working on our UD pilot project!
http://vimeo.com/13365354
Cheers
Dena
Looking for a hot date? View photos of singles in your area!
dena fam
Thanks for your comments Elizabeth,
A core component of our UD pilot is visual communcation and engaging a range of stakeholders throughout the process of installation and trial.
We still have another 18months of working with the design students (as well as engineering, law & agricultural students) and look forward to posting the next semsters work...
Cheers
Dena
To: ecos...@yahoogroups.com
From: elli_...@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:41:31 +0000
Subject: RE: EcoSanRes: RE: another Phosphorous animation by students working on the UD project at University of Tech Sydney
Dear Dena,
Please tell the student(s) who made that 1.5 minute clip that he/she/they did a brilliant job here (http://vimeo.com/13365354)! Somehow I missed to view it when you posted it on 16 July and perhaps others missed it as well due to the holiday season. But it captures the problem of phosphorus shortage and the option of P recycling from pee really very well, I think.
Being an engineer, I am dead impressed what design people can up with! (and these are even "only" students!).
Well done for engaging these design schools and getting them interested. We have tried with some German universities here but found it quite hard - they have so many other interesting topics to make videos for.
Regards,
Elisabeth
P.S. I just saw that this forum now has over 700 members! Quite some growth we experienced there.
And on facebook, the Sustainable Sanitation Alliance now has over 500 friends, also not bad.
www.gtz.de/ecosan
www.susana.org (please check out the new features of our improved website!)
To: ecos...@yahoogroups.com; dana.c...@uts.edu.au
From: ground_...@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:51:51 +1000
Subject: EcoSanRes: RE: another Phosphorous animation by students working on the UD project at University of Tech Sydney
Just wanted to share another great animation by one of the students working on our UD pilot project!
http://vimeo.com/13365354
Cheers
Dena
Looking for a hot date? View photos of singles in your area!
Ralf Otterpohl
Dear All,
Even major changes are often not very visible if they are off the
mainstream media attention. There is a major regreening in Burkinia
Faso, Niger and Mali through support of tree growth by traditional
means of simple rainwater harvestinig and dung application (cattle in
these cases, could be ecosan products in future, too). Farm income has
strongly increased. Overcoming horrible old legislation prohibiting
trea usage for the small farmers plays a role, too. Please read
www.markhertsgaard.com/articles/242 for some more confidence into the
development in Africa.
Ralf
-- Ralf Otterpohl Univ. Prof. Dr.-Ing. Director Institute of Wastewater Management and Water Protection *** focus on Resources Management Sanitation / Ecosan TUHH Hamburg University of Technology, Germany Leiter Institut f�r Abwasserwirtschaft und Gew�sserschutz TUHH Technische Universit�t Hamburg-Harburg www.tuhh.de/aww IWA-ecosan-group: www.ecosan.org Phone secretary +49-40 42 878-3207 o________________________________________o We do not take any responsibility for any kind of damage caused by emails from us - we take precaution, but please scan o________________________________________o did you have your GMOs today? www.mercola.com/2001/jul/14/gm_foods.htm o______________________________________________o did you microfinance in Africa this morning? invest in www.myc4.com and earn 12% by helping small entrepreneurs part of real business o__________________ >> o << ___________________o
Ralf Otterpohl
Dear All,
there is a recruitment for guest profs for a Indo-German cooperation of
RWTH Aachen, for EU citizens who want to work in Chennai for 2 years.
Doctorate in engineering or nat sciences with int. development
experience in land use, water management, waste� is required. If you
are interested please let me know to my mail r...@tuhh.de and I will make
the contact. Will be good to have someone who will teach ecosan, too.
Here at TUHH we are in the process of finding a new director of the
Institute of Water Resources with strong experience in water supply and
a doctorate in this field.
Horacio S. Factura III
The Institute of Wastewater Management and Water Protection of Hamburg University of Technology is once again sending the invitation to the first Terra Preta Sanitation Workshop which will be held on September 27-30, 2010 at the INEP institute which is near Bremen, Germany. Please see attached file for more details.
Looking forward to see more ecosanies joining!
Best regards,
Horacio
Attachment(s) from Horacio S. Factura III
1 of 1 File(s)
Höhne Alexandra
Dear Horacio,
you have registered me for the Terra Preta Workshop. I am very interested to attend, as I am also working on innovation in sanitation in urban Kigali (Rwanda) for my MSc thesis.
Unfortunately Im quiet busy in the days of the workshop, so Im considering attending only some of the offered days.
Can you please send me a program, so I can see which days are particularly interesting for me.
Thank you, best
Alexandra
[Attachment(s) from Horacio S. Factura III included below]Dear All,
The Institute of Wastewater Management and Water Protection of Hamburg University of Technology is once again sending the invitation to the first Terra Preta Sanitation Workshop which will be held on September 27-30, 2010 at the INEP institute which is near Bremen, Germany. Please see attached file for more details.
Looking forward to see more ecosanies joining!
Best regards,
Horacio
--
.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
Alexandra Höhne
MSc. Candidate 2009/10 "Management of Agro-Ecological Knowledge and Social Change"
Wageningen University and Research Center - Netherlands
(0031) 0644 634 222
asb.h...@gmail.com
skype: a.hoehne
www.rwanda-vcp.org
