Re : EcoSanRes: Cold weather toilets [3 Attachments]

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PERRIER Loic

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Sep 27, 2010, 4:18:14 AM9/27/10
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Hi every one,

I work for the society called ECOSPHERE TECHNOLOGIES.

This French society, created in 1991 by Pierre COLOMBOT, products dry toilets. The system works with a separation of faeces (black water) and urines (yellow water) via a conveyor belt.  This system is very simple and reliable.
 
Faeces treatment is very simple:
Ø       Vermicomposting : this process uses earthworms (Eisenia fetida) and permits volume reduction and sanitation. There are almost 80 vermicomposting drycloset in France and Spain,
Ø       Dehydratation:  when vermicomposting is impossible (for installation above 2500 high meters in Europe), we can use an electrical fan to dehydrate faeces. There are 100-120 such toilets in France, Spain, Switzerland,...

In 2007, we settled toilet in 4 400 m of height in the massif of the Mont Blanc. You can see in attached a picture of this toilet. For the season 2008-2009, we installed chips of temperature (called thermochron, range of use: 40 - 85 °C). You can see in the joined graph which the temperatures go down very low, often lower in-40°C (limit of use of the sensor). Naturally, toilet are not used during these period of big cold. However, the system continues to work for 3 years and we are going to realize a new serie of measure in 2011.

You can visit our web site : www.saniverte.fr/en. Find also in attached a commercial brochure which presents the company and these products.

Regards

PERRIER Loïc
ECOSPHERE TECHNOLOGIES
+33 (0)4 75 26 10 44


--- En date de : Ven 24.9.10, Sudhir Kashyap <sudhirk...@yahoo.com> a écrit :

De: Sudhir Kashyap <sudhirk...@yahoo.com>
Objet: EcoSanRes: Cold weather toilets
À: ecos...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Vendredi 24 septembre 2010, 7h21


Hello Everyone 


I am sorry this was not my intent as i can also see that we are now getting in to Social issues -which are very difficult to handle .

My question was very simple 

The Indian Army is looking for Eco friendly toilets for high altitude (3000 - 5000 meters ) where the temp can go down to minus 30C and the oxygen level can be low by app. 30% . We had suggested 3 hole toilets with urine separation with a composting box which could be well insulated .I just wanted to know anyone who has had experience in installing these in high altitude and their experience .

We had even suggested -smaller toilets where the fecal matter could be removed from the toilets and put into a secondary composting box and this was rejected as no one is allowed to touch or carry this . These of course are social problems which i cannot change .

I have not said anything about UDDT toilets as i have really not understood the principal of it . Because the ones i have seen or read need extra drying matter like Ash which i am afraid is not available at those altitudes as the only fuel available is diesel or kerosene (which is also causing a lot of pollution)

Like I said at this stage we can present different types of solutions to the Indian Army and work with them to find the best solution in the long run .In fact if we are putting up 4 pilot projects we can have two with composting and two with drying .

I am no sanitation expert - we are selling complete houses to the Army where they have expressed a desire for eco friendly toilets .

So if i can get comments on type of toilets which would function in such conditions , I can present these . Remember in a pilot price is not the first issue - performance is .

For information on the Rural Sector and how it functions I would recommend all of you getting in touch with my brother who is a Guru on Rural Development in India and is a advisor to the PM and the World Bank and has written a very nice book called the Rural Marketing book . He and his team have a very good insight to how the Indian social system works and they have actually had some very revolutionary ideas in changing the social taboos . http://www.martrural.com/  .They are working with many multinational companies and NGO

Best regards

Sudhir



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Sudhir Kashyap

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Sep 27, 2010, 5:30:53 AM9/27/10
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Thank you for your mail 

Have seen the toilets and the working principal .

What i understand is that to install these toilets you will need quite a lot of electricity and for the conditions described for the Armed forces they will mostly be having 12 or 24 V from Solar and Wind generation .

Maybe you could please send me the technical specs of the public toilet  

Another problem in India is Urine Seperation and Grey water seperation . could this be done with your toilets 

Thanks and best regards

Sudhir

From: PERRIER Loic <loic.p...@yahoo.fr>
To: ecos...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 10:18:14 AM
Subject: Re : EcoSanRes: Cold weather toilets [3 Attachments]


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PERRIER Loic

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Sep 27, 2010, 6:28:11 AM9/27/10
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Yes we need some electricity. For dehydratation, we use 1.2W and 2 W pans for 1 carousel and an another one 1.2 W for the ventilation. All this pan work with 12 V from solar panels.

To limit the frost of urines, we use a 12V heating cable .

The system of conveyor belt separates effectively urines but we have no application for the separation of grey waters.

Regards

Loïc

--- En date de : Lun 27.9.10, Sudhir Kashyap <sudhirk...@yahoo.com> a écrit :


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Kent Madin

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Sep 27, 2010, 11:37:21 AM9/27/10
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Wow.. a completely new twist on Urine separation.  Loic, what's the life expectancy of the conveyor belt mechanism?  One assumes that anything with moving parts, particularly gears, is prone to Murphy's Law.  What issues of maintenance are there with the mechanism? 
And what kind of load do  the current installations of this toilet handle in terms of users per day? 

Kent


Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 4:28:11 AM
Subject: Re: Re : EcoSanRes: Cold weather toilets

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Sudhir Kashyap

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Sep 27, 2010, 11:45:57 AM9/27/10
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kent 

Even i had the same views -as moving parts require maintain-ens and getting electric loads can be a problem . Can one not think of a simpler dehydrating process .(in our case the cabins hare heated and 50% of the air has to be changed every hour ) So we were planning to use this warm air to circulate thru the toilet and work as a dryer .

Sudhir

From: Kent Madin <ret...@yahoo.com>
To: ecos...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 5:37:21 PM


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Kent Madin

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Sep 27, 2010, 12:06:06 PM9/27/10
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Yes, it seems that you wouldn't be purchasing the entire units but just the "guts" and could design to have the already warm air from the living spaces ducted to the toilet.  This is also attractive  for you in terms of the anal washing issue since you don't need a third hole.  The UD happens with one big hole.  ONly downside is that the urine is fecal contaminated for sure.  Still have to figure out drainage field or sump for grey water and urine.  But with the distribution into sacks, all you need then is a backyard type trash burner, a 200 liter steel barrel with air holes cut down near the base.  Drop in a dry sack of poo, pour on some kerosene  and try not to stand downwind.....
Kent

From: Sudhir Kashyap <sudhirk...@yahoo.com>
To: ecos...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 9:45:57 AM

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Sudhir Kashyap

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Sep 27, 2010, 3:23:02 PM9/27/10
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Hi Kent

Is seems that a infiltration system which is below the frost line for grey water and urine can work . One could put a small heating cable in the pipe of the urine disposal for anti frost -this is done quite often . For the Composting / Drying chamber we can used the warm air from the cabins and also insulate the chamber well and even have a small what is called a dump load heater . This is a heater which is connected to the batteries for getting energy from the wind and solar source and once the batteries are fully charged -the dump load heater comes into effect it uses the excess energy for generating heat . We had planned to put this in the composting chamber for producing excess heat .

I think the 3 hole system with a heated chamber and a infiltration bed for urine and grey water  may be the solution .

Would invite comments from all .

Regards

Sudhir

Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 6:06:06 PM


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Carl R Lindstrom

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Sep 28, 2010, 12:04:33 AM9/28/10
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What happens to the process if the conveyor belt stops working ?

Carl

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PERRIER Loic

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Sep 28, 2010, 3:48:22 AM9/28/10
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Hi,

The old version of the conveyor belt works until 1995. The actuel version is realy improved. In 2006, we made a test : the current system works with no problem at all for 1 million cycles (no wear of parts,no break-in). The user of this type of toilet has to pusch 5 times on a pedal positioned in quoted by the seat. In a general way, we estimate the duration of functioning of the system in approximately 15-20 years. We realize a mattering work to improve the robustness of the system. We have installations in all France, in Switzerland and in Spain, sometimes in high height (access by helicopter). We cannot allow to move on all our installations to change parts. However, for the installations of vermicomposting toilet in easily accessible place in France, we propose free annual visit during 5 years. For toilet with stake in bag, we size the system so that the customer intervene only once a year (draining of bags). Ventilators and battery have life expectancies from 5 to 8 years old. In a general way, we propose a discount for level of our former installations every 8-10 years.

The attendance depends on the site of pose. It can be very low or very strong. We use a device of counting on parts put in movement by the pedal. We setted up on a toilet of average attendance (7000 persons a year). At present, we equipped a very frequented toilet: 7000 persons in 2 months (july and august)! The daily points for this site are upper to 250 persons (max:  25-27 pers. per hour).

Regards

Loïc
ECOSPHERE


--- En date de : Lun 27.9.10, Kent Madin <ret...@yahoo.com> a écrit :


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