Allan Savory v George Monbiot debate at Oxford - Is livestock grazing essential to mitigating climate change?

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Louise Mitchell

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Jul 16, 2023, 2:03:26 PM7/16/23
to blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance
This past Tuesday, July 11, Holistic Management Founder Allan Savory and Guardian Journalist George Monbiot had a debate hosted by Oxford University on whether or not livestock grazing is essential to mitigating climate change.

Allan Savory v George Monbiot debate | Is livestock grazing essential to mitigating climate change?
See the YouTube description copied and pasted below.

Here is the statement by the Savory Institute on this debate: 

STATEMENT ON THE ALLAN SAVORY & GEORGE MONBIOT DEBATE AT OXFORD:


YouTube Description:

1,523 views Jul 13, 2023
In the holistic planned grazing process, livestock are used as a tool to reverse the biodiversity loss that leads to desertification — a major contributor to climate change. Yet critics argue that livestock grazing, in almost all circumstances, is a net contributor to climate warming. On 11 July 2023, founder and proponent of Holistic Management Allan Savory met prominent critic George Monbiot at Oxford University Museum of Natural History for a debate chaired by Dame Professor E.J. Milner-Gulland. About Allan Savory: Allan Savory began his career in the 1950s as a research biologist in central Africa where the loss of biodiversity in game reserves and national parks alarmed him. Reversing it became his life's focus and led to a significant breakthrough that became known in 1984 as Holistic Management. He is the author of Holistic Management: A Commonsense Revolution to Restore Our Environment, Third Edition (Island Press, 2016), and numerous scholarly papers and articles. He has been honoured by The Weston A. Price Foundation (Integrity in Science), the Buckminister Fuller Institute (for his work's "significant potential to solve some of humanity's most pressing problems") and the Banksia Foundation Australia (for "the person doing the most for the environment on a global scale"). He is President of the Savory Institute. About George Monbiot: George Monbiot is an author, Guardian columnist, and environmental activist whose current research focus is on the global food system. His best-selling books include Feral: Rewilding the land, sea, and human life, Heat: How to stop the planet burning, and Out of the Wreckage: a new politics for an age of crisis. George was awarded the Orwell Prize for Journalism in 2022. In the same year, he became an Honorary Fellow of Wolfson College, Oxford. George's latest book, Regenesis: Feeding the World without Devouring the Planet (shortlisted for the James Cropper Wainwright Prize for Writing on Conservation) draws on astonishing advances in soil and ecology to explore pioneering ways to grow more food with less farming. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OXFORD UNIVERSITY MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY Oxford University Museum of Natural History was established in 1860 to draw together scientific studies from across the University of Oxford. Today, the award-winning Museum continues to be a place of scientific research, collecting and fieldwork, and plays host to a programme of events, exhibitions and activities for the public and school students of all ages. Follow us on social media ► @morethanadodo Website ► https://oumnh.web.ox.ac.uk/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LEVERHULME CENTRE FOR NATURE RECOVERY The Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery acts as a hub for innovative thinking, discussion and analysis of nature recovery nationally and worldwide, it unites leading researchers from a wide range of disciplines across Oxford University, its interdisciplinary approach bringing together expertise from the departments of geography, ecology, social science, finance, economics, psychiatry, anthropology, artificial intelligence, statistics and earth observation, to collaborate on a range of projects, in conjunction with national and international partners. Follow us on social media ► @NatureRecovery Website ►https://www.naturerecovery.ox.ac.uk/

Adam Sacks

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Jul 16, 2023, 5:06:09 PM7/16/23
to Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance
Allan Savory has spent his life in inquiry, discovery, and practice of land restoration.  George Monbiot has spent his life arguing, writing, reading papers, and supporting "science" as if it were a solid, immutable practice that gave him the answers he wanted.  In this "debate," George offered no evidence that he has ever examined a holistically managed operation, considerable evidence that he has no idea what it is, and a clear indication that he isn't interested in finding out.

Around 2014 the Savory Institute had a conference in London, invited George to attend and meet Allan.  George declined.  Apparently he's been so busy building his adversarial positions that he seems to have learned nothing since.  That's hardly the practice of "science."

If anyone has questions about this debate, I'll be happy to answer them if I can.

Cheers!

Adam

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Biradar, Chandrashekhar (CIFOR-ICRAF)

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Jul 16, 2023, 8:05:56 PM7/16/23
to Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance
Indeed both are right (within the context of their niche) and probably wrong in outside of their context. 
One model won’t fit all or everywhere especially if it’s ecological options by context… we have so much diversity in everything and everywhere naturally, something works somewhere does not mean it works everywhere. Often we face this problem of assuming same conditions everywhere for expanding one ideology or model to large regions that is where it starts falling … just two cents in the context of security in diversity, everything is equal (important) in ecology of functional landscapes 

Kind regards



Dr Chandrashekhar M. Biradar

Country Director-India

CIFOR-ICRAF Asia Continental Program

C.Bi...@cifor-icraf.org

+91 7319132666 

https://www.cifor-icraf.org


On 16-Jul-2023, at 11:35 PM, Louise Mitchell <louise....@bio4climate.org> wrote:


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Beck Mordini

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Jul 16, 2023, 11:58:27 PM7/16/23
to Jim Laurie, Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance
I found it surprising that Maniboit was able to write off the thousands of ranchers who have successfully used this, and the satellite and photographic evidence as non-scientific. Does a lab study or a computer model really outweigh what you can observe with your own eyes?  This is why Savory starts his presentations with the disaster of the elephants- the data lead them to the wrong conclusion- at a terrible price.  On the other hand, our observations could also lead us to the wrong conclusions without understanding the science of what we see (ie the sun only looks like it is rising and setting). 

I was also interested to see how carbon math muddies the picture.  The assumption is, if you can't count carbon molecules in the soil, then you aren't stopping climate change. And if those carbon numbers aren't consistent, then the experiment is flawed.  So many layers of complexity are left out of this.

I didn't really understand what Savory was getting at in his last line- I know what you are thinking because all humans think alike ...

All in all it felt like an apples to oranges debate, with Maniboit talking about industrial meat production in developed countries and Savory talking about regenerating dead lands around the world with livestock.  Again, Maniboit conflates western issues with global issues, as Americans could eat a lot less meat, but dead, dry ground in Africa or Asia is not going to grow enough wheat and beans and greens to give people there the nutrition they need year round.





On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 6:38 PM Jim Laurie <jimla...@gmail.com> wrote:
Allan Savory showed us how to reverse desertification on many millions of acres.  I was thinking back in the 1990s that working with the concepts of Holistic Management, we would see many billions of acres restored to a healthy biodiverse state in the 2020s.  That sadly hasn't happened yet. 
This was an interesting debate where two men with very different beliefs were facing each other.  
What did you notice that surprised you? 
Be sure to hear Allan's final statement as he read a brief note at the very end after all the questions.
I still hear him saying, "What do you want in your future?"

Jim Laurie
  

On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 2:03 PM Louise Mitchell <louise....@bio4climate.org> wrote:
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rob de laet

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Jul 17, 2023, 2:34:24 AM7/17/23
to Jim Laurie, Beck Mordini, Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance
Hello Beck and good morning everyone around our beautiful, living but wounded and sick planet,

In reaction to the debate thread, here are my 2 cents. 

Just as you cannot read someone’s health from a hemoglobin test, you cannot base climate health on carbon soil content. And even a complete blood count test, comprehensive metabolic tests, lipid profiles, liver kidney, thyroid test and so on, does not tell you enough. A good doctor needs to look at a person, talk to them, observe their vitality, the timbre in their voice and what energy they radiate to assess the state of someone’s health.

Assessing and restoring climate health in any place is similar and while it can be science supported, it is an art. It may take into account things like soil carbon and pH, nutrient analysis, organic matter, texture, contaminants, microbial activity water retention, temperature and precipitation and still the picture is not complete when not listening to bird song, watching the activity of insects playing in the morning sun and the dew in spider's web, watching how the healthy waters are stirred in a pond, the smells in the air that wake you up, the whispers from the wind that touch your skin and the beauty and vitality of plants and trees that invigorate your spirit just by being there. That diagnosis actually comes instantaneously from being in a place, being silent and taking in all the signals, connecting to it. Listening to the land, walking the land is a spiritual experience that informs us directly of what we can find out with analysis. Here is where climate change and consciousness come together and we start to heal the land while it heals us. 

These days, there are few places where this vital and deep beauty and vitality still exists, the world has faded compared to decades back. This also goes for the vast majority of people and animals, they lack lustre and spirit these days or express contorted energy. We need to nurture the planet and ourselves back to health fast. It may still be possible, but we are running out of time. 

Wishing you all a wonderful week,

Onward!




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Butler, Susan F

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Jul 17, 2023, 9:44:01 AM7/17/23
to 'rob de laet' via EcoRestoration Alliance, Jim Laurie, Beck Mordini, rob de laet, Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston
Thank you Rob. 
Assessment: 
First: color, level of consciousness, eye contact. 
If we wanted to work on carbon, we should have started a hundred years ago when Henry Ford told us to. 
How are we going to knock the carbon gangsters off their stools? 
Elon Musk is silly trying to get to Mars.  Doesn't he see, Mars is coming to him. 
Have a wonderful day and a wonderful week and don't forget the joys of black humor.   Remember to laugh.
Thanks and love, 
Sue


Susan Farist Butler, RN, MSN, PhD
Visiting Scholar, Climate and Morality
Harvard Divinity School
Cambridge, MA


Co-Principal Investigator
Laboratory for Probabilistic Reasoning
Psychology Department
Tufts University
490 Boston Avenue
Medford, MA 02155
From: 'rob de laet' via EcoRestoration Alliance <ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2023 2:34 AM
To: Jim Laurie <jimla...@gmail.com>; Beck Mordini <camo...@gmail.com>
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Subject: [External] Re: [ERA] Re: Allan Savory v George Monbiot debate at Oxford - Is livestock grazing essential to mitigating climate change?
 
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ecorestoration-alliance/2145445433.1080568.1689575659035%40mail.yahoo.com.

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Butler, Susan F

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Jul 17, 2023, 9:44:46 AM7/17/23
to 'rob de laet' via EcoRestoration Alliance, Jim Laurie, Beck Mordini, rob de laet, Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston
Love your portrait of the world. 
Many thanks,
Love,
Sue


Susan Farist Butler, RN, MSN, PhD
Visiting Scholar, Climate and Morality
Harvard Divinity School
Cambridge, MA


Co-Principal Investigator
Laboratory for Probabilistic Reasoning
Psychology Department
Tufts University
490 Boston Avenue
Medford, MA 02155
From: Butler, Susan F <sbu...@tufts.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2023 9:43 AM
To: 'rob de laet' via EcoRestoration Alliance <ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com>; Jim Laurie <jimla...@gmail.com>; Beck Mordini <camo...@gmail.com>; rob de laet <robd...@yahoo.com>

Cc: Louise Mitchell <louise....@bio4climate.org>; blC Leadership Team Boston <blc-leadershi...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [ERA] Re: Allan Savory v George Monbiot debate at Oxford - Is livestock grazing essential to mitigating climate change?
 

Philip Bogdonoff

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Jul 17, 2023, 9:55:48 AM7/17/23
to Butler, Susan F, 'rob de laet' via EcoRestoration Alliance, Jim Laurie, Beck Mordini, rob de laet, Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston
> Elon Musk is silly trying to get to Mars.  Doesn't he see, Mars is coming to him.

That is a perfect encapsulation!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ecorestoration-alliance/MN2PR05MB61586E812F9C0C2B49A37D76AB3BA%40MN2PR05MB6158.namprd05.prod.outlook.com.

Beck Mordini

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Jul 17, 2023, 10:44:17 AM7/17/23
to Butler, Susan F, 'rob de laet' via EcoRestoration Alliance, Jim Laurie, rob de laet, Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston
Thank you Rob for the beauty and inspiration and thank you Sue for the humour, dark as it is 

I am thinking bio4climate and era might want to post something on the YouTube comments because they are not very helpful.


Fred Jennings

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Jul 17, 2023, 11:17:54 AM7/17/23
to Jim Laurie, Beck Mordini, rob de laet, Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance
Thank you, Rob, for this lovely, poetic and beautifully written adoration of our living planet. This was more than just a moving critique!

Bravo!!!

Fred

Adam Sacks

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Jul 17, 2023, 11:52:20 AM7/17/23
to Biradar, Chandrashekhar (CIFOR-ICRAF), Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance
Hi Chandrashekhar - 

George's context is firmly rooted in Cartesian reductionism and isolated data points, Allan's is based on general principles applicable to many if not all living systems, including human social systems.  George isn't even right within his own context since he has based his opinions on the hostile "science" that Allan has faced for decades, and which has now been put to rest with countless living examples worldwide and even university studies.  George is not right.

When Allan spoke to us at Tufts University in Massachusetts in 2013, it was the first time he had spoken at an academic institution in thirty years, so stubborn are the irrational prejudices of a cultural fortress.  The last ten years have been a watershed for Holistic Management (HM), although it still faces ignorance such as that displayed by Monbiot.  In any case, HM is spreading as it should be.  But please, let's be clear, Monbiot is looking at it from another planet staring through the wrong end of a telescope and he has no idea what he is looking at.

Very best wishes,

Adam

P.S. - Holistic Management  is a planning process, widely applicable in many situations where people are tackling challenging problems working with one another; Holistic Planned Grazing is an instance of HM - a special instance of HM since it led to the generalization that is now HM.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ecorestoration-alliance/8E1EB767-7873-4768-B1AD-0B58F2F3C058%40cifor-icraf.org.

Victory Garden Team

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Jul 17, 2023, 12:16:02 PM7/17/23
to Fred Jennings, Jim Laurie, Beck Mordini, rob de laet, Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance
  thank you for your beautiful response rob.  would like you to add increasing topsoil to your list of things we can measure  

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At the moment of commitment the entire universe conspires to assist you. Whatever you can do or dream you can do begin it now. Boldness has genius, magic and power in it. Goethe
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.  To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”  Buckminster Fuller

Jim Bledsoe

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Jul 17, 2023, 5:40:18 PM7/17/23
to Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance

Savory was talking too much wider and fundamental perspectives when he told us that carbon,

this stuff we all have and all use and all have no way of metering or commodifying is last week's news

We have to actually get to work on setting the conditions for (yes) to happen

plant plants and use self-replicating semi-autonomous lawn conditioning critters


We need a vision shift,
changing the way we see things?! 



Synonyms: greenhouse gases and water vapor
When viewed!?
 from holistic overall heat dynamics/black body 

interactive bioballanced negentropic
blindly stumbling into abundance 

place for (yes)
Things change


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Duane Norris

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Jul 17, 2023, 5:48:12 PM7/17/23
to EcoRestoration Alliance
Would someone here like to articulate in ONE sentence, what AS' message to the world is?

Just ONE sentence. Thanks.

Judith D. Schwartz

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Jul 17, 2023, 6:35:18 PM7/17/23
to Duane Norris, EcoRestoration Alliance
More than one sentence, but I’ll take a stab at it: Allan points to the desertification—loss of land function—he’s observed across the world that contributes to climate change yet is often ignored. On such landscapes, plant matter dies and slowly oxidizes (breaks down chemically), blocking new growth, releasing carbon, unable to retain water, and becoming flammable. He advocates ensuring that plant matter is broken down *biologically*, which requires moisture, which in environments with distinct dry seasons requires animals. The behavior/digestive processes of well-managed animals enhance plant growth and biodiversity, build organic matter in soils, minimize fire fuels, improves water retention...all the while providing food on land unfit for cropping. At least 1/3 of the world’s land is grassland and much of this is degrading so that solar radiation generates heat rather than being dissipated by plants and incorporated into life forms. With so much land stuck in this vicious cycle, we cannot address climate change without reckoning with—and changing—this dynamic. 

For a one-sentence version: Areas of the world that have seasonal rainfall (i.e. brittle landscapes) have a decay problem and need animals to break down plant material so it doesn’t slowly oxidize or quickly go up in smoke, and we can’t address climate change without confronting this.

Hope this is helpful...

Judy

Adam Sacks

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Jul 17, 2023, 8:51:09 PM7/17/23
to Judith D. Schwartz, Duane Norris, EcoRestoration Alliance
Excellent, Judy - thanks!

Adam

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ecorestoration-alliance/1995B554-DA4D-477D-A2A6-6E018362521B%40gmail.com.

Neal Spackman

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Jul 17, 2023, 8:56:53 PM7/17/23
to Judith D. Schwartz, Duane Norris, EcoRestoration Alliance
I'd do a different sentence than Judy:

Until human decision accounts for complexity, the way we make decisions will continue to drive ecosystem degradation.  

HM is primarily a framework for decisionmaking

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ecorestoration-alliance/1995B554-DA4D-477D-A2A6-6E018362521B%40gmail.com.

Michael Pilarski

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Jul 18, 2023, 1:27:41 AM7/18/23
to Judith D. Schwartz, Neal Spackman, Duane Norris, EcoRestoration Alliance
Bravo! to Neal, Judy, and Rob for your words and to all of you actually.  Doing the good work. 

The members of ERA, GEA (Global Evergreening Alliance) and similar alliances are articulating the way forward to the world.  We do have the answers, or at least the right trajectory. Time will tell how much of the world will listen to us or put our recommendations into practice.  Powerful forces are arrayed against us. 

But when the empire crashes and the dust settles, the word on the inner realms is that love will win out. 
There are powerful forces arrayed with us. 



Stephanie Mines

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Jul 18, 2023, 2:00:09 AM7/18/23
to Michael Pilarski, Judith D. Schwartz, Neal Spackman, Duane Norris, EcoRestoration Alliance

This has been a series of very moving and affirming exchanges that I resonate with and have shared with others. You give me hope ~ not the avoidant, spiritual bypass version ~ but the hope borne of camaraderie. Thank you, fellow travelers. This is meaningful, if only to get us past the despair to keep on being unprecedented leaders in unprecedented times.

 

Stephanie Mines, Ph.D.

Vision Holder/Founder: Climate Change & Consciousness

www.cccearth.org

Founder: The TARA Approach

www.Tara-Approach.org

 

Author of the forthcoming The Secret of Resilience: Healing Personal and Planetary Trauma Through Morphogenesis  and The Great Physician: Medicinal Poetry for the Anthropocene

 

“If everyone who is passionate about climate, who truly gets that we are living in a pivotal moment, found their place in the movement, amazing things would happen.” ~ Rebecca Solnit, Hope in the Dark

 

From: 'Michael Pilarski' via EcoRestoration Alliance <ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2023 10:28 PM
To: Judith D. Schwartz <judi...@gmail.com>; Neal Spackman <neal.s...@regenerativeresources.co>
Cc: Duane Norris <duaneno...@gmail.com>; EcoRestoration Alliance <ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ERA] Allan Savory v George Monbiot debate at Oxford - Is livestock grazing essential to mitigating climate change?

 

Bravo! to Neal, Judy, and Rob for your words and to all of you actually.  Doing the good work. 

 

The members of ERA, GEA (Global Evergreening Alliance) and similar alliances are articulating the way forward to the world.  We do have the answers, or at least the right trajectory. Time will tell how much of the world will listen to us or put our recommendations into practice.  Powerful forces are arrayed against us. 

 

But when the empire crashes and the dust settles, the word on the inner realms is that love will win out. 

There are powerful forces arrayed with us. 

 

 

 

On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 05:56:55 PM PDT, Neal Spackman <neal.s...@regenerativeresources.co> wrote:

 

 

I'd do a different sentence than Judy:

Until human decision accounts for complexity, the way we make decisions will continue to drive ecosystem degradation.  

HM is primarily a framework for decisionmaking

 

On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 4:35 PM Judith D. Schwartz <judi...@gmail.com> wrote:

More than one sentence, but I’ll take a stab at it: Allan points to the desertification—loss of land function—he’s observed across the world that contributes to climate change yet is often ignored On such landscapes, plant matter dies and slowly oxidizes (breaks down chemically), blocking new growth, releasing carbon, unable to retain water, and becoming flammable. He advocates ensuring that plant matter is broken down *biologically*, which requires moisture, which in environments with distinct dry seasons requires animals. The behavior/digestive processes of well-managed animals enhance plant growth and biodiversity, build organic matter in soils, minimize fire fuels, improves water retention...all the while providing food on land unfit for cropping. At least 1/3 of the world’s land is grassland and much of this is degrading so that solar radiation generates heat rather than being dissipated by plants and incorporated into life forms. With so much land stuck in this vicious cycle, we cannot address climate change without reckoning with—and changing—this dynamic. 

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Rodger Savory

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Jul 18, 2023, 8:47:58 PM7/18/23
to EcoRestoration Alliance
My one sentence would be, Allan is desperately trying to get the world to create all policies holistically towards a holistic context which describes the quality of life we would all like to live, socially, economically and environmentally.

Climate Water

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Jul 18, 2023, 11:07:04 PM7/18/23
to Rodger Savory, EcoRestoration Alliance
Here is my recently recorded interview with Rodger Savory, Alan's son


Biradar, Chandrashekhar (CIFOR-ICRAF)

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Jul 18, 2023, 11:43:41 PM7/18/23
to Adam Sacks, Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance
Dear Adam, and colleagues,

Thanks again, I just provoked to reiterate proven scientific evidences to land restoration! indeed Allan and I had brief conversations few years ago when I was working in Africas and CEWANS drylands! I am following in his work on wholistic management! Indeed restoring ecological functionality is key in every landscapes, livestock and trees play vital role in the proces. Certainly all these open discussions in ERA platform are so rich with experiences and evidenced based delebarations which are vital for scaling!  

Kind regards

-Chandra 


On 17-Jul-2023, at 9:22 PM, Adam Sacks <adam....@bio4climate.org> wrote:



Duane Norris

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Jul 18, 2023, 11:51:05 PM7/18/23
to EcoRestoration Alliance
Thanks to Everyone who attempted to answer my "ONE Sentence" question/challenge.

I am grateful to Rodger for his clear and unequivocal answer. And to Judy, Neil and others for their comments.

The Anthropocene era has been one short relative episode to date but with multiple negative outcomes realizing themselves as major tipping points and a Six Extinction.

Adam Sacks sums it all up rather beautifully in his essay 'Next System.' 

Humans believe that they have an inherent 'right' over Nature, either because of hubris, religious beliefs or cultural inheritance.

But Adam is right to say that Nature's rules apply to ALL living things. The roadmap is already laid out.

Living in Australia, in 2023, gives me a unique perspective. Australia is an island continent, and some 50m years ago, it separated from Antarctica and the rest of Gondawanaland.

Parts of Australia, are almost as old as the earth itself (=>3.8b years). It hasn't worn away and eroded back to the sea, yet!

And over the last 50m years, the 'Australian' ecosystem ran itself, for millennia.

But since humans arrived some 60,000 years ago, and introduced fire, as their only land management tool, the die was cast.

European agriculture and pastoral practices have reduced the potential even further in the last 230 years.

We need a DIFFERENT approach to our destructive ways of thinking. Complexity tells us that more of the same will not work. We need new thinking, not just "mutton dressed up as lamb."

"Until we recognize nature's impartial and implacable rules, we will persist in our treasured mythologizing and afford ourselves not the slightest chance of changing our ways". Adam Sacks, New Essay

🙏🌞💧🌲
Duane

"I am no longer accepting the things I cannot change…I'm changing the things I cannot accept." A.Davis



Biradar, Chandrashekhar (CIFOR-ICRAF)

unread,
Jul 18, 2023, 11:52:01 PM7/18/23
to rob de laet, Jim Laurie, Beck Mordini, Louise Mitchell, blC Leadership Team Boston, EcoRestoration Alliance
Lovely writing Rob, as usual you out system in place! 
I am trying my best to convince policy makers that springsheds can return and biotic pump works in wholistic understanding… let’s put together more evidence for the smaller patches as well as evey tree counts - our main tagline is growing trees become prosperous! 

Kind regards

-Chandra 


Dr Chandrashekhar M. Biradar

Country Director-India

CIFOR-ICRAF Asia Continental Program

C.Bi...@cifor-icraf.org

+91 7319132666 

https://www.cifor-icraf.org


On 17-Jul-2023, at 12:04 PM, 'rob de laet' via EcoRestoration Alliance <ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Biradar, Chandrashekhar (CIFOR-ICRAF)

unread,
Jul 18, 2023, 11:57:10 PM7/18/23
to Rodger Savory, EcoRestoration Alliance
Absolutely Rodger ! 

Restoring functional landscapes that are economically viable and ecologically sustainable! 
We have to find that ways to marry ecology to economy for effective scaling and then only it should become movement … 

Kind regards

-Chandra 


On 19-Jul-2023, at 6:18 AM, Rodger Savory <rodger...@gmail.com> wrote:

My one sentence would be, Allan is desperately trying to get the world to create all policies holistically towards a holistic context which describes the quality of life we would all like to live, socially, economically and environmentally.

Butler, Susan F

unread,
Jul 19, 2023, 6:38:28 AM7/19/23
to Biradar, Chandrashekhar (CIFOR-ICRAF), Rodger Savory, EcoRestoration Alliance
Hi Rodger
When you name quality of life as an important variable, I believe you are correct. 
In Jay Forrester's 1967 World Dynamics modeling, he shows that as other variables are resolved, the remaining one, quality of life, became the focus. 
He did not anticipate the carbon gangsters dominating the discorse so and may have had some erroneous assumptions about population. 
I believe quality of life is an important variable and one important factor in quality of life is trust. 
We must remember trust, well earned,  well deserved trust. 
Thank you, 
Sue

Susan Farist Butler, RN, MSN, PhD
Visiting Scholar, Climate and Morality
Harvard Divinity School
Cambridge, MA


Co-Principal Investigator
Laboratory for Probabilistic Reasoning
Psychology Department
Tufts University
490 Boston Avenue
Medford, MA 02155
From: ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com <ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Biradar, Chandrashekhar (CIFOR-ICRAF) <C.Bi...@cifor-icraf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2023 11:57 PM
To: Rodger Savory <rodger...@gmail.com>
Cc: EcoRestoration Alliance <ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [External] Re: [ERA] Allan Savory v George Monbiot debate at Oxford - Is livestock grazing essential to mitigating climate change?
 

Ian Redmond

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Jul 19, 2023, 8:40:55 AM7/19/23
to Rodger Savory, EcoRestoration Alliance

Hi Rodger,

Further to our conversation and this discussion, I’m attending the CMS Scientific Council meeting in Bonn this week, https://www.cms.int/en/meeting/sixth-meeting-sessional-committee-scientific-council-scc-sc6  and managed to get an amendment to a draft decision on this document that will likely interest you and Allan - https://www.cms.int/sites/default/files/document/cms_cop14_doc.29.7_pastoralism_e.pdf:

 

Here is the suggested amendment to pastoralism and migratory species – suggest amending 14.BB b) to read:

b) Provide recommendations to support Parties in addressing the impact of pastoralism on CMS-listed species [and the potential for climate benefits and soil restoration through holistic management of rangeland.]

This is a result of consultation with both Zimbabwe (delegates very proud of Allan Savory) and IFAW.

Hope this results in bringing holistic management into the thinking around the conservation of migratory species in pastoral landscapes.

Cheers,

Ian

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Ian Redmond OBE

Head of Conservation, Ecoflix www.ecoflix.com

Ambassador for the UN’s Convention on Migratory Species www.cms.int

Chairman, Ape Alliance - www.twitter.com/4apes  

Chairman, The Gorilla Organization www.gorillas.org  

Ambassador and consultant, www.vEcotourism.org

Co-founder, www.Rebalance.Earth

 

Postal address:

c/o Stroud Nature,

Fromehall Mill,

STROUD,

Gloucestershire GL5 3EH,

UK

 

Telephone/WhatsApp:  +44 7769 743975

Email:  e...@globalnet.co.uk  

 

Working in partnership with UNEP www.un-grasp.org  

Born Free Foundation www.bornfree.org.uk

Ape Alliance www.4apes.com

 

Ian’s YouTube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/user/YoGAmbassador/videos

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From: ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com <ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Rodger Savory
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2023 2:48 AM
To: EcoRestoration Alliance <ecorestorat...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ERA] Allan Savory v George Monbiot debate at Oxford - Is livestock grazing essential to mitigating climate change?

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

 

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