Death of A Moth and Death of The Moth Discussion

[Andy Lau]

alright, since the post is not created yet, it should start now.

i think that although the essays both speak of how moths die, Woolf
speaks of it during her last years, which has influence with the essay
and Dillard is speaking from viewing how a moth dies, like she enjoys
to see how a moth dies...

[Miguel Nieves]

i think that A Moth sees that once Death occurs, all Moths look alike... like she commented on how after all those Moths died from the candle she could tell it was a Moth's casket on the bathroom floor. While The Moth explains that Death is unavoidable and is noticeable from an outside perspective.

[Laura Yip]

I don't think she "enjoys" watching how a moth dies but it maybe
metaphor of what Dillard feels about death.

[Mariana]

The whole story was disturbing to me. I don't really get what Dillard
is trying to convey.

On Sep 2, 5:39 pm, "Brooks Brorsen [Hunny Bunny]"
<brooks.bror...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So... she's comparing moths to humans...? Since we all die in the end,
> we're the same? I felt she was sort of disturbed. I'm sure even a moth
> can feel pain, so why did she sit there and watch the animal suffer? I
> hope she wouldn't do the same thing to her cat or another human.

[Holly Cain]

If we're comparing the two texts, I'd say that although Annie Dillard doesn't seem to "enjoy" watching the death of the moth, she doesn't have much to say about how it makes her feel, or how it affects her. To her, it was more of something to observe, or something to use as light to read her book by, rather.

Virginia Woolf seemed to connect emotionally with the moth and its death, and really conveyed that using her description, rather than just conveying how exactly the moth looked as it died, as Dillard did.

[Marisol Clemens]

I thought that Dillard did have a lot to say about how it makes her
feel. At the end of the essay she was questioning her life and the
meaning of life in general. She asks herself if that was all there
was, "Is this what we live for?"
I think that like Wolf she began to question life, but in a different
way. Wolf was doubting the value and ultimately decided it wasn't
worth it. Dillard sort of had the opposite view, thinking it was worth
a lot but wanting to know what it all means.

[wyatt tong]

First of all, what was Dillard supposed to do for a moth that was on fire? The moth died relatively quickly, and probably would have suffered more, had she tried to save it. Additionally, I think that the moth is a metaphor for her students, the flame their career choice(writers). They can be large and successful(large moth), yet can crash and burn in an instant. Since she went on this camping trip because of a writers block this is probably about her own experience as an author. 

Woolf titles her piece Death of the Moth, while Dillard titles hers Death of a Moth. To me this can be interpreted as death of a specific author(herself), versus the death of an anonymous author. Although both are personal, Dillard's piece is meant to be read as a cautionary piece, warning people to know what they are getting into before committing. Woolf's is a personal lament about her feelings of suicide, depression, self loathing, inevitability of death, etc.

[Usman Raheel]

I completely agree with Wyatts' second paragraph ans his anyalzation of the title of both the essays. In addition to that i felt as though Woolfs' essay was descriptive in such a way that it created a dark feeling. Also the death of the moth in both essays represents something that both the author can realte to. Woolf feels as the moth dying means that death is inevitable, while the moth dying in Dillard wssays means that life goes on and so should Dillard.

 

p.s. excuse my typos.

--
Usman Raheel

[Latetia Bobo]

I definitely agree with Wyatt. I thought Dillard's description and use
of the moth was to relate it to writing. That also explains why she
mentions her reasoning for being out camping in the first place; it's
connected to writing and less of an emotional thing like it was to
Woolfe.

On Sep 2, 6:51 pm, wyatt tong <wyattt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> First of all, what was Dillard supposed to do for a moth that was on fire?
> The moth died relatively quickly, and probably would have suffered more, had
> she tried to save it. Additionally, I think that the moth is a metaphor for
> her students, the flame their career choice(writers). They can be large and
> successful(large moth), yet can crash and burn in an instant. Since she went
> on this camping trip because of a writers block this is probably about her
> own experience as an author.

> Woolf titles her piece *Death of the Moth*, while Dillard titles hers *Death
> of a Moth*. To me this can be interpreted as death of a specific

> author(herself), versus the death of an anonymous author. Although both are
> personal, Dillard's piece is meant to be read as a cautionary piece, warning
> people to know what they are getting into before committing. Woolf's is a
> personal lament about her feelings of suicide, depression, self loathing,
> inevitability of death, etc.
>

[Jakob]

I feel the two pieces are almost complete opposites, at least in a few
respects. First of all, while both authors write about how their
respective moths made them feel, Woolf seems to connect with the moth
on a much more personal level, perhaps an influence for her suicide,
while Dillard uses the moth as evidence to support claim at the
beginning of "knowing the husks are moths". While this doesn't
necessarily make her detatched, it doesn't seem to have affected her
as deeply as Woolf.

The other difference is the types of death. Woolf writes about her
moth's prolonged struggle with death, which finally ends when the moth
dies. Dillard's moth on the other hand dies quickly, almost
instantaneously, but she continues to describe the fate of its corpse
well into the night.

On Sep 2, 6:51 pm, wyatt tong <wyattt...@gmail.com> wrote:

> First of all, what was Dillard supposed to do for a moth that was on fire?
> The moth died relatively quickly, and probably would have suffered more, had
> she tried to save it. Additionally, I think that the moth is a metaphor for
> her students, the flame their career choice(writers). They can be large and
> successful(large moth), yet can crash and burn in an instant. Since she went
> on this camping trip because of a writers block this is probably about her
> own experience as an author.

> Woolf titles her piece *Death of the Moth*, while Dillard titles hers *Death

> of a Moth*. To me this can be interpreted as death of a specific

> author(herself), versus the death of an anonymous author. Although both are
> personal, Dillard's piece is meant to be read as a cautionary piece, warning
> people to know what they are getting into before committing. Woolf's is a
> personal lament about her feelings of suicide, depression, self loathing,
> inevitability of death, etc.
>

[Brooks Brorsen]

At Wyatt: Um. She could have put it out of its misery instead of watching it burn like a serial killer. 

[Miguel Nieves]

but either way the Moth wouldve died, and im sure she knew tat

[Jade Kam]

I agree with you, Wyatt, in that I think the moth serves as a metaphor
for her students, or maybe anyone who must make sacrifices for their
passion/art. In the beginning of the essay, Dillard mentions reading
something while camping alone that "made her want to be a writer" when
she was sixteen. I think on this trip she was looking for something
that inspired her to write again. Towards the end of the essay she
asks her students "which one of you want to give your lives and be
writers?" Like the moths had given their lives to the flame, Annie
Dillard is fully devoted to her passion of writing.

On Sep 2, 6:51 pm, wyatt tong <wyattt...@gmail.com> wrote:

> First of all, what was Dillard supposed to do for a moth that was on fire?
> The moth died relatively quickly, and probably would have suffered more, had
> she tried to save it. Additionally, I think that the moth is a metaphor for
> her students, the flame their career choice(writers). They can be large and
> successful(large moth), yet can crash and burn in an instant. Since she went
> on this camping trip because of a writers block this is probably about her
> own experience as an author.

> Woolf titles her piece *Death of the Moth*, while Dillard titles hers *Death

> of a Moth*. To me this can be interpreted as death of a specific

> author(herself), versus the death of an anonymous author. Although both are
> personal, Dillard's piece is meant to be read as a cautionary piece, warning
> people to know what they are getting into before committing. Woolf's is a
> personal lament about her feelings of suicide, depression, self loathing,
> inevitability of death, etc.
>

[Layla Sanders]

Still though, she wanted to keep watching because it probaby intrigued
her to write about it. Something different and to possibly influence
other young writers.

[Jade Kam]

i love you brooks.

On Sep 2, 7:18 pm, Brooks Brorsen <brooks.bror...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Tomás]

However, I find the most unusual part of the essay the detached way in
which she describes these events. Seeing a moth burn to death is no
more unusual to her than seeing the dessicated corpses of its
bretheren left by the spider on her bathroom floor (also, how she
casually brings up how the spider "reminded her of a moth she once
helped kill). What does this say about how she feels about a
willingness to burn oneself for one's art? Also, the reference and
comparison to self-immolating monks (if you don't understand it, look
up Thich Quang Duc) seems to contrast with this impression, as that's
a pretty powerful statement.

[Latetia Bobo]

This is so true and I believe that was the purpose of telling the
moth, it sparked a flame and gave her the push she needed to write
again

[Laura Yip]

Maybe the flame means the passion her students put into their work,
even though they think to the point that they may crash any moment

[Eric]

Comparing the two, I think Anne Dillard uses her observation of the moth to 

influence writing while Woolf saw it as a sign for suicide.

[amy yu]

I think the flame=passion and devotion for one's work. 

--
xoxo
      

[Layla Sanders]

I second Amy and Laura

[Sharon Chung]

Yea, I don't think that the moth stayed alive for 2 hours burning
anyway. I'm not sure how she would've put the moth out of its misery.

[raina endo]

I agree that this story was disturbing. and i didn't get this part in death of a moth where Annie Dillard writes " Her little outfit always reminds me of a certain moth i helped to kill". I think between the two essay Woolfe portrays herself as the moth but Dillard just observes the moth.

[Brooks Brorsen]

hahah thanks jadey :] 

On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Jade Kam <edaj...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Trava Goodwin]

I agree...

> > to see how a moth dies...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Chris Haxo]

I personally think that the main purpose of these excerpts is to
express Dillard's and Woolf's opinions on death. Dillard stares at the
moth burning because she understands that everything has its time to
die, and once something is dead it is dead. This is why the scene does
not disturb Dillard. On the other hand, Woolf who obviously thinks
that it is Man's duty to take life and death into his own hands - as
shown by her suicide - is saddened by the seen of the moth in her
piece dying.

[Trava Goodwin]

Exactly...i agree we all have to die at some point, however I do not
feel that all cause
of deaths will be as gruesome as the description of the moth.

On Sep 2, 5:39 pm, "Brooks Brorsen [Hunny Bunny]"
<brooks.bror...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So... she's comparing moths to humans...? Since we all die in the end,
> we're the same? I felt she was sort of disturbed. I'm sure even a moth
> can feel pain, so why did she sit there and watch the animal suffer? I
> hope she wouldn't do the same thing to her cat or another human.
>
> On Sep 2, 5:06 pm, Laura Yip <yukicris...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>

[Trava Goodwin]

@ brooks..i totally agree..something is wrong with her. I mean does
she not have anything better to do?

On Sep 2, 7:18 pm, Brooks Brorsen <brooks.bror...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > how exactly the moth looked as it died, as Dillard did.- Hide quoted text -

[kit cheang]

I think Dillard is writing the nature of the moth, not just watching it burn for two hours. As we all know that bugs fly toward light, even thought they might know that the fire will kill them. But this is the nature of bugs (moth) and they can't change it. Similar to "The Death of the Moth", they both proved that escape from death and change the nature of one is impossible. 

[Martin Reimer]

@ Tomas, maybe the way she's describing the burning of the moth as being the same compared to the dead bugs in the bathroom is because both, in the end, are dead. 

[Trava Goodwin]

@ raina..i know right, her mentioning that she helped killed a moth
seems kind of disturbing.
This may lead one to conclude that she possibly enjoys watching the
moth die. Why not blow out
the candle to end misery?

On Sep 2, 8:17 pm, raina endo <rainae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree that this story was disturbing. and i didn't get this part in death
> of a moth where Annie Dillard writes " Her little outfit always reminds me
> of a certain moth i helped to kill". I think between the two essay Woolfe
> portrays herself as the moth but Dillard just observes the moth.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:59 PM, amy yu <amyfashionis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think the flame=passion and devotion for one's work.
>

> > xoxo- Hide quoted text -

[Norman Hernandez]

I pretty much agree with Chris and Wyatt's previous comments. I also
feel Woolf uses the moth as a way to tie in her personal life.
Something she can relate to or rather explain to people her feelings
without actually directly placing herself as the subject. Whereas
Dillard doesn't, and basically just describes her accounts of watching
something die rather than dealing with the death herself personally.

[Alice Chen]

@haxo if you're saying the woolf thinks that man should take life and death into his own hands, why didn't she help the moth? Instead she put down the pencil like she was accepting that death is inevitable and that the moth was going to die whether or not she chose to do anything.
Alice Chen

[Layla Sanders]

@Alice but what more could she have done?

[Layla Sanders]

You can also compare and contrast the titles of the essays. "Death of
THE Moth" sounds like the moth would have some kind of influence over
Woolf. In contrast, "Death of A Moth" doesn't sound like the moth is
as significant.

If that makes any sense...

On Sep 2, 9:02 pm, Layla Sanders <tennisla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> @Alice but what more could she have done?
>

> On Sep 2, 2010, at 9:00 PM, Alice Chen <alicechen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > @haxo if you're saying the woolf thinks that man should take life  
> > and death into his own hands, why didn't she help the moth? Instead  
> > she put down the pencil like she was accepting that death is  
> > inevitable and that the moth was going to die whether or not she  
> > chose to do anything.
> > Alice Chen
>

> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Norman Hernandez <normn_hernn...@yahoo.com

[Brooks Brorsen]

 Thank you! :] So true. 

[Fernando Monroy]

I also agree with Haxo's and Wyatt's comment,

 

@ Jake i agree with you to a point, but i believe that Dillard along with Woolf connected the death of the moth because in Death of a Moth Dillard writes "Is this what we live for?..." so she could also be having thoughts of comiting suicide or she could be just accepting death??

[Marisol Clemens]

@trava and raina
I think that she's saying she helped to kill the moth by not saving
it. By making the choice to let it die, she played a hand in the
moth's death. She could have easily intervened; inaction is action.

The thing I find interesting is that both authors consider saving the
moth, and both decide not to and have very different reactions. Wolf
seems to think she did the right thing, thinking it dying is almost
nobel (which would make sense considering her suicide). Dillard on the
other hand feels guilty, thinking she helped to kill it.

[Ryan Hamana]

@Marisol I agree. Idle Hands are the Devil's tools.


Alright this is kinda off-topic from other discussion contributions, but did anyone else notice the ironic ways both Dillard and Woolf reacted to the deaths of the moths? I thought the differing influences the moths produced on the authors was interesting.

For example, Annie Dillard was in a writing block, a worse situation then being dead for an aspiring writer/english teacher. She witnessed the death of A moth and it inspired her to write a new article. She was intrigued and motivated by the actual burning of the golden moth. Being a nature-writer, imagery is an essential factor of reaching the reader. (The paragraph starting at the top of Pg. 141 is one of the best examples I've seen of Imagery, Cacophony, Simile, Syntax, Diction, Alliteration, and Allusion.)

On the contrary, Virginia Woolf experienced the death of The moth in a completely different way. She was inspired by the determination and willpower of the the dying moth, not the actual demise of it. She describes the moth as, "a tiny bead of pure life", glorifying it's ultimately unsuccessful struggle with death.

Dillard's moth died in vain, burned literally to a crisp because light is like bug heroin. But Woolf's moth died accomplished and proud that he righted himself. It's kinda strange that Dillard was inspired to live by the horrible death of the golden moth, and Woolf eventually commits suicide following the righteous death of the "hay-coloured" moth. I guess humans get pleasure from other's pain, and pain from other's pleasure. Even though we're talking about moths...

BTW, Sorry for writing so much, I got carried away.

On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:17 PM, raina endo <rain...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Mariana Zavala]

Okay, this may or may not be a little off topic, but this is just my
two cents on the essay.

In the blurb about Annie Dillard in the beginning, it mentioned how
she would often think about spiritual things while reflecting on
nature, so I looked specifically for any spiritual or religious
references, and besides the simile about the saint and the virgin, I
didn't find any. I did, however, read into the image Dillard created
about the moth burning up, and that felt very spiritual to me. Fire
represents a lot of things (especially relating to religion- hellfire,
etc) so I doubted it was a coincidence the way she described it. Plus
the idea of the moth's body being used as a wick, the body being
recycled after death, that is an idea that both contradicts and also
coincides with many religions. I feel like in certain parts, it can be
viewed as a kind of spiritual reflection, but that may be me reading a
little too deep into things.

[Arek Boloyan]

Well the 49ers won.... And I froze my butt off... But anyway back to
moths dying. Personally, I appreciated Dillard's essay more than
Woolf's. I felt like there was more descriptive language and
generally a better picture was portrayed. I think her experience in
nature has paid off in a sense that seh can write very comfortably and
aptly about anything to do with nature. I think (and someone probably
already said this before) but that death is not the end, as
exemplified by the moth. After it had caught fire, it continued to
burn. By the way, thats pretty gruesome that she just sat there and
watched something burn.... am i right??? Anyway, I believe that the
fact that she did not say "the moth died"........ but rather painted a
very vivd picture and told how the moth still burned after was
significant. Anyways goodnight everyone.

On Sep 2, 10:27 pm, Mariana Zavala <zavalamarian...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

[Arek Boloyan]

hey

[Arek Boloyan]

sweet i did it right...