Schedules and Otherness

[Jareel [GM]]

Folks,

 

The dates available for the Age of Wyrms campaign in September are the 8th and the 22nd.  I would like to do it on the 8th, if possible.

 

Just so people have an idea of what is coming next, in case the foreshadowing and my (o so) subtle hints have flown right past you.

• Leaving the Past for the Now you left.
• Collect Keys - Use Gate - Whee
• Deal with the Mind Flayer (not necessarily required)
• Pay off your debt to the Grand Marshall (not necessarily required)
• Things in the Now (none of which are necessarily required)
• Deal with Kylar's Brother
• Deal with Yew's Brother
• Deal with Jaden's Nemesis
• Deal with the Warden of the Demon Prison of Q'barra

What I need to know is if y'all want to take this to Epic or not.  Before you answer me, I want you to understand that this will entail y'all doing a better job of keeping up with your characters.  Once you get past 10th level in power, you have a lot more variables to keep track of, plus the rank & file monsters of CR 10+ start getting "odd" in their abilities ( e.g. a lot more of the 'save or die' powers) or are just freaking huge bags of hit points that take a while to whittle through.  What do I mean by better job?  During combat when it is your turn, I will ask you once what you are doing (or what your dice rolls were) and I will take the first answer you give me.  No more, "No! Wait, I meant to say ..."  I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but combat will take long enough if we don't have to do everything twice.  What I will allow is the following (or if y'all have a keen time saving idea, I will take that into consideration as well):

 

1. You can roll your dice when it is not your turn, so you have the results ready when I get to you.  This includes spell damage, spell penetration, attack rolls, weapon damage, etc.

2. I will hand you a sheet of paper with a few fill-in-the-blank spots, which you will fill out before we start the game.  It will include basic combat data (Intiative, ACs, BAB, saves), basic perception data (Spot, Search, Listen, Track, Hide, Move Silent) and space for about forty d20 rolls.  That's right, you will roll all of your d20s ahead of time and I will just tick them off the list. 

 

Additionally, if we take this to Epic I need to know if any of your characters have additional motivations/goals for when you get back to the Now.  Jaden, Yew, Lod and Kylar already have one "to-do" item each.  Lod's being the potentially most difficult, followed by Yew's, depending on the approach.  The Rathgar smash approach can be applied, but is not recommended for either.  Speaking of Rathgar, having found the dragon-men, he will be headed back home or where ever Destiny points him. :)

 

Regardless of Epic-ness or not, I need to know if you like the more "traditional" dungeon-crawl approach I have been applying of late.  Constructive criticism is always appreciated.  Hating will be ignored. :P

 

That's all for now. :D

 
--
I doubt, therefore I might be ...

-Kenji

[Jack Nelson]

Rathgar SMASH!

That is all. Carry on.

[iKitten]

Gaijin Smash!

[Jareel [GM]]

This announcement was sponsored by House Cannith, maker of Sharp Things that Go Into Soft Things which Scream and Bleed(tm).

 

If you want to make a Soft Thing Scream and Bleed think House Cannith! :D

 

On 8/6/07, Jack Nelson <jake.si...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jareel [GM]]

A minor change -- the 8th of September is now not an option for me.  So it will be the 22nd, or not at all, in September. 

 

I still need to know if you guys (and gal) want to go Epic with these characters or not.  For me, this matters because of some plot elements that I will need to introduce in the next couple sessions, if y'all decide to go Epic with these characters.  (You are already in the Top 10% of "Adventurers" in the known world, due to your 12th Level Equivalence.)  If you choose not to go Epic with these characters that's cool, too.  You still have plenty of things to do, such as ... 

• Deal with whomever has the Heart of Xen'drik with Yew in it.

• Deal with Kylar's Brother
• Deal with Yew's Brother
• Deal with Jaden's Nemesis
• Deal with the Warden of the Demon Prison of Q'barra

I just need to know because it will also affect the upcoming campaign retooling.

 

Thanks! :)

-Ken

 

On 8/4/07, Jareel [GM] <jareel.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jen Manuel]

Speaking of retooling, can we get 12-th level equivalent hit points? We keep getting our butts kicked and can't handle it. More HP would help. Then again, smart actions and not running to fight everything we see would help too. *sigh*

[Kylar Longstrider]

I doubt I want to go Epic with Kylar. Whenever he finishes his "quest" and helps Yew finish his, he's pretty much done with the world hopping adventuring unless it has to do with protecting a Seal or stomping some aberrations.

--
- Adam C.

"Lets not shoot the crazy end of the world machine just yet" - Jack Carter

[Jareel [GM]]

Technically, you are already getting more hit points since the Template and Prestige Classes that everybody has grants stat bonuses which include CON increases, which equals an extra +1 hp / die for every even multiple of CON above 10.  Your +3 ECL-ness comes from all of the other bennies (Stat Increases, Natural Armor, Breath Weapon, immunities, unarmed attacks, etc.).  Yew and Kylar, the two fighters, both have 100+ hp. 

 

Y'all already have some fairly impressive ACs and saving throws, which mitigate a lot of damage.  The last two times y'all got your collective butts kicked, the enemy knew your group, it's capabilities and tendencies.  Y'all wog-stomped the be-jeezus out of the Kenku and Nightmind, the first time around; not to mention the Ten-Eyed God and his minions.  There was no Nightmind re-match. "He" had plans, but you didn't seek him out, so nothing came of it.

 

Really, the only things that really hurt y'all were the Kenku Elite Assassins, the Chronotyryn, and the Spore Bats.

 

The Sky Pirates ... beaten.

The Spore Bats ... mangled, but victorius.

The Grell ... beaten.

The Ankhegs ... whooped.

The Spider-legged Horror ... beaten.

The Kenku Ninjas ... beaten.

The Temple of the Ten-Eyed God ... beaten.

The Kenku Elite Assassins ... mangled, but victorius.

Nightmind ... beaten. 

The Kenku Elite Assassins + Cyrus ... just mangled.

 

To be fair, the group averages 12th level in all categories except Arcane Magic and Divine Magic (exc. Healing), where you're probably closer to 10th.  Your defenses are probably closer to 14th level.  Y'all do well against a single opponent, where everybody can concentrate their best on one thing.  Y'all absolutely fall apart when you face an organized group.  Even one so horribly one dimensional as the Kenku Assassins, whose "divine" magic consisted of a couple of healing potions and "arcane" magic were Elemental Summoning (via Gems) and Javelins of Lightning.  Yes, they had very nasty swords, but Dragonbane Unholy Weapons aren't that hard to come by in a world where there is an "evil" dragon theocracy at war with another dragon empire.  Breela didn't have much problem avoiding them, she just walked up a tree.  Kenku don't fly. 

 

I was amazed that y'all took away one of your biggest assets by choosing to fight in a cave.  Y'all could fly.  These assassins were only really nasty up close and personal.  C'est la vie.  I have long since accepted that players will do things that I don't think of.  Sometimes they are way cool and I am amazed.  Sometime I am amazed in the other direction (in the world of text, my brain goes -- WTF?!). 

 

Regardless, you are correct that there are some imbalances that need to be addressed.  I need to figure out which ones are inherent in the v3.5 system and which ones are solely wrought by yours truly.  I can fix the latter and only mitigate the former.  I do appreciate the input, though.

 

Anybody else have suggestions?

 

On 8/14/07, Jen Manuel <bre...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jen Manuel]

Teach us how to use tactics?

[Jareel [GM]]

Alas, Sun Tzu I am not.  The closest I come is Sun Um Beetch.  I could start with the Sesame Street skit about "Cooperation" ... :)

 

-Kenji

[dull...@bellsouth.net]

Lod's in for Epic...

>
> From: "Jareel [GM]" <jareel.w...@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/08/14 Tue AM 11:26:42 EST
> To: Eberron-Campaig...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Schedules and Otherness
>
> A minor change -- the 8th of September is now not an option for me. So it
> will be the 22nd, or not at all, in September.
>
> I still need to know if you guys (and gal) want to go Epic with these
> characters or not. For me, this matters because of some plot elements that
> I will need to introduce in the next couple sessions, if y'all decide to go
> Epic with these characters. (You are already in the Top 10% of
> "Adventurers" in the known world, due to your 12th Level Equivalence.) If
> you choose not to go Epic with these characters that's cool, too. You still
> have plenty of things to do, such as ...
>

> - Deal with whomever has the Heart of Xen'drik with Yew in it.
> - Deal with Kylar's Brother
> - Deal with Yew's Brother
> - Deal with Jaden's Nemesis
> - Deal with the Warden of the Demon Prison of Q'barra

>
> I just need to know because it will also affect the upcoming campaign
> retooling.
>
> Thanks! :)
> -Ken
>
>
> On 8/4/07, Jareel [GM] <jareel.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > The dates available for the Age of Wyrms campaign in September are the 8th
> > and the 22nd. I would like to do it on the 8th, if possible.
> >
> > Just so people have an idea of what is coming next, in case the
> > foreshadowing and my (o so) subtle hints have flown right past you.
> >

> > - Leaving the Past for the Now you left.
> > - Collect Keys - Use Gate - Whee
> > - Deal with the Mind Flayer (not necessarily required)
> > - Pay off your debt to the Grand Marshall (not necessarily
> > required)
> > - Things in the Now (none of which are necessarily required)
> > - Deal with Kylar's Brother
> > - Deal with Yew's Brother
> > - Deal with Jaden's Nemesis
> > - Deal with the Warden of the Demon Prison of Q'barra

"I can believe anything, provided that it is quite incredible." Oscar Wilde--The Picture of Dorian Gray

[dull...@bellsouth.net]

Hold on! Eric tried to teach us tactics in game and it made me quit his game. Jen, be careful of what you ask....

>
> From: "Jareel [GM]" <jareel.w...@gmail.com>
> Date: 2007/08/14 Tue PM 04:18:52 EST
> To: Eberron-Campaig...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Schedules and Otherness
>

> > > To be fair, the group *averages* 12th level in all categories except

[Jareel [GM]]

The ONLY way that tactics would be taught "in game", would be if the group, collectively, decided to train somewhere (e.g. The Waiting Abbey) and thereby gain group Tactical Feats.  Even then, the actual "training" would be handled "off-line" via e-mail and the next time we had a game session it would start with "After X weeks of grueling training, Master Sergeant Payne has declared you mostly not useless maggots, and set you free..."

[Kylar Longstrider]

A lot of it, I think, is that fact that we:

A. Don't know our characters as well as we should (variably among the group)
B. Anytime a plan is put forth, someone "has a better one" or has a problem with one and little agreement among anyone is ever made
 and
C. Everyone tends to think of themselves and what they can do instead of what we can do

Tactics will only work if teamwork is created in the first place. A real leader is a lot of what we lack and no one really fits that mold among our group anyway.

[Jareel [GM]]

Yup.  Small group tactics and cat herding tend to be mutually exclusive. :)

On 8/14/07, Kylar Longstrider <patch.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

A lot of it, I think, is that fact that we:

A. Don't know our characters as well as we should (variably among the group)
B. Anytime a plan is put forth, someone "has a better one" or has a problem with one and little agreement among anyone is ever made
 and
C. Everyone tends to think of themselves and what they can do instead of what we can do

Tactics will only work if teamwork is created in the first place. A real leader is a lot of what we lack and no one really fits that mold among our group anyway.

On 8/14/07, Jareel [GM] <jareel.w...@gmail.com > wrote:

The ONLY way that tactics would be taught "in game", would be if the group, collectively, decided to train somewhere ( e.g. The Waiting Abbey) and thereby gain group Tactical Feats.  Even then, the actual "training" would be handled "off-line" via e-mail and the next time we had a game session it would start with "After X weeks of grueling training, Master Sergeant Payne has declared you mostly not useless maggots, and set you free..."

--

-Kenji

[Ryan Leary]

 Jaden is in for Epic. 

 Regarding hit points and our largely successful track record, I would note that I have min-maxed the hell out of Jaden's healing ability, and yet it has still been a struggle for him to keep up with the damage output we've been facing lately.  I'm not complaining, since it challenges Jaden in his area of expertise in just about every combat, but we would probably have a few near-TPKs already if our circumstances were different.

On 8/14/07, Jareel [GM] <jareel.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

[iKitten]

Frankly, you'll see that no matter what system you play.  And if you don't, then the healing is massively broken.  Your problem stems from the fact that you have a large number of PCs, cohorts, NPCs, and named class features to look after when healing.  The enemy tends to be capable of damaging more than one person at once, either due to spells or numbers, and as a rule can give as good as you can.  Your cleric, on the other hand, can do a few things that add piddly amounts of healing to everyone, or just heal one person at a time, maybe two with your amulets (counting yourself).  Also, there's the always popular enemy tactic of sacking the healer.

Also, it's only min-maxing if you have a trade off.  "I took that instead of another feat" is not a trade off.  You're just maxed.

[Jareel [GM]]

The popular tactic is to kill the spellcasters ... you can then chop down the trees known as fighters at your leisure. :)

-Kenji

[Jareel [GM]]

Epic Poll Status --

Breela - Unknown

Jaden - Yes

Kylar - No

Lod - Yes

Yew - Unknown

 

[iKitten]

Sure.

[Ryan Leary]

 All of which is magnified by the imbalanced ECL to HD ratio of LA.  This isn't anything unique to Ken's game; a lack of hit points is a mainstay of the LA system, and our group is no exception (CON bonuses notwithstanding).  My point is that I've built Jaden to be the best healer that feats can buy ( i.e., a normal 9th level cleric averages 27hp healed with a CCW, while Jaden cures 51hp every single time with the same spell), and yet he still struggles to stay ahead of the damage curve sometimes.  Again, this isn't a complaint; if the rest of the party didn't need lots of healing, then Jaden would be less useful.

 Also, while Jaden isn't min-maxed in the traditional power-seeking way, he is still "min-maxed" because he is focused on being a healer to the exclusion of almost everything else.  I don't think the rest of y'all mind so much. ;-)

On 8/15/07, iKitten <ikitten....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Kylar Longstrider]

WTF's LA?

[Jareel [GM]]

Level Adjustment

 

-Kenji

[Kylar Longstrider]

Ah! My acronym-foo is weak today...

Well, a lot of this would be solved by other aspects... but, it's getting taken care of, so no big. :)

On 8/15/07, Jareel [GM] < jareel.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jareel [GM]]

Think of it as less min-max'd, more really focused. :)

On 8/15/07, Ryan Leary <lea...@gmail.com> wrote: