Finding a space 15 points.

[Chris Fryer]

We have chosen a great time to make a hacker space as CCHS has begun putting out feelers for a bigger space and we can use their research to help us to also find a place.

Here is a list of points that I pinched from CCHS.

1. Zoned business/light industrial, near public infrastructure such as trains, trams, parking, and NBN. 

2. Ideally we'd like a location synergistic with a university and/or tech business incubator.

3. And low/government grant funded rent/utilities. 

4. And a pony.

5. Really just picture our (CCHS) current space but bigger.

6. Space - 300+m2 would of course very nice.

7. Access - Given the number of less abled people that we've now got interest from, we need to make sure that any site we look at has friendly access (eg: ramps & no stairs). Of course, as currently, a roller door would be very useful to get stuff in/out, even if it's not quite as wide as our current one.

8. Toilets/kitchen - It would be good to have at least 2 toilets and at least a small kitchen area (a non-toilet sink, some counter space for a coffee machine, etc). The 2 toilets is not for a 'male/female' divide, but just simply because it's so much easier if one's already in use (especially as the reason we want more space is so we can grow in membership). That said, if one of them was larger than the other (eg: to accommodate wheelchairs) then that wouldn't be a bad thing either.

9. Power - We preferably want something with 3-phase, or where getting 3-phase outlets run would not be a problem. We also don't want something that has an inadequate power feed (scout halls tend to have this problem, as they weren't expected to be running lots of equipment like we do).

10.Communications - The place must have at least a phone line (scout halls are once again usually into this problem of not having one). While we can probably get one installed (if it's got some other form of comms like fibre), it's not cheap if there is no line there already.

11. Flooring - A portion of the floor space really needs to be concrete, or some sort of hard wearing surface that isn't going to be a problem to clean. Carpet, while nice in a common room or light work area (eg: 3D printing, laser cutting, people sitting with laptops or watching a presentation, etc), would not make sense around areas like the lathe, milling and woodworking areas, and probably not much around soldering areas either. As you can guess, this doesn't need to be the whole space, but I'd guess at least 75-100m2.

12.Transport - Near the train is most preferred, with trams a close second. I don't think we'd care too much about buses. Parking is of course a big concern too, as at the current space we've got a lack of immediate parking (though at least we have the council carpark nearby).

13.Ventilation/heating/cooling - We really want to make sure that things like 3D printers laser cutting and soldering stations could be used in a well ventilated room. Running duct like we have is fine, but we need somewhere to run the duct to (eg a hole in a window, a hole in the roof, etc). Related of course is that having a space that has heating/cooling would be advantageous from a comfort perspective, and avoids the need for things like gas space heaters (or at least reduces them) in the winter, or boiling on hot days in the summer.

14. Anyway, that's just a list of things I think we'd find it hard to do without.

15. All of the above and a computer room (or enough room to make one) with a data projector and set up for training and running presentations.

RobP StuartY GeoffL from CCHS who I stole this off.

-Chris

[Mark Street]

Hi Chris,

Apologies for not being able to make it to your meeting on the weekend, but I have a suggestion or two for the location for you guys

There are a number of commercial properties on the Belgrave Trainline which are currently empty, particularly around Blackburn and Nunawading and out towards Bayswater.

Also, there has been a lot of talk about the use of the closed schools in the area as they "belong to the local community", particularly Parkwood Secondary College and Nunawading Primary School. I am aware that the Mens Shed Association has attempted to get some space at both of these sites, if they are not sold off for housing development (which looks likely). If you have enough interested people in forming a Hackerspace then it might be worth putting a petition or letter together to the council in the area.

Mark

[Chris Fryer]

Thanks :)

[Hurgh]

Hi All,

Also, sorry for not getting there on the weekend.

To Mark's point, there are also some empty commercial style buildings (think auto repair shops) close to the Croydon train station that may be worth a look. Not so much "Community" spaces, so they will probably come with a commercial cost, but who knows who the owners are and if they are interested in supporting a hackerspace like this.

Regards

Allan

[mmogdog]

Wow, that list really highlights the difficulty in finding the perfect location.

But they are all fantastic points for everyone to consider while searching.

[David Payne]

I definitely think a school is among the potentially best spaces, particularly if it was a tech school. Even if all the equipment is gone, there might still be benches, cupboards, shelves, fume-cupboards. The rooms that had machine tools (at least) will probably have Core-balance/GroundFault Interrupters, centralised safety switches with big red stop buttons as well as the local switches & possibly power cords hanging from the ceiling or rising from a raised floor. That's from experience in the 1970's when safety wasn't nearly the obsession it has become. I can't imagine what safety features a school would have now, remote controlled arms to operate power tools & a medical emergency room?  

Getting to know the Men's Shed Association Members & friendly discussion of common interests & differences would be a good idea. Even if they get the space because MESH has the "H-word" in it's name* that's a good outcome compared to wasting the space on more housing or retail development. 

The main difference between the 2 types of groups seems to be from the perspective of the various levels of government, which see Men's Sheds as a remedial tool and a place where men will nag each other to go to the Dr etc.  My contacts at http://www.hobsonsnet.com/#! say it's not men only but as with the Victorian & Australian Federation and Government information, the website gives the opposite impression. 

*The old good cop, bad cop scenario? 

[David Payne]

For a more than temporary space 3 toilets is probably a desirable minimum & 4 a priority. 1 would only be practical for a small group unless there are more nearby, open when they are wanted. 

Another consideration is neighbours. CCHS has flats just the other side of the lane which could constrain noisy activities in that space compared to being surrounded by factories or open space. 

[Chris Fryer]

I sent an Email Enquiring about a small space In Chirnside Park. The guy is subleasing one office in this complex http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-offices-vic-chirnside+park-500973263 approximately 10 m² . David found it on MeetUp http://www.meetup.com/Magento-Melbourne/messages/boards/thread/42968062 .

To: j...@shopix.com.au

"Hi,

I see you may have some office space available Chirnside Park. I represent the Melbourne Eastern Suburbs Hackers ( http://easthack.com/ ) a group that wishes to set up a maker space in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. It's a social group for people into electronics computer programming and 3-D printing. 

How much are you considering leasing this space for? Is there cable, ASDL2 or NBN Internet available in this area? Is there adequate toileting facilities for 5-10 people some of whom may be in electric wheelchairs? Are there plenty of power points?

I hope to hear from you soon,

Thanks,

Chris Fryer"

[Chris Fryer]

The reply,

Hi Chris,

Unfortunately, my offer is no longer valid. However, the building where my office is, has a number of unoccupied suites which their owners seem to be having a lot of trouble leasing out. It might be worth checking with their agent (Ray White) to see if they'd be willing to help a non-for-profit organisation and have at least their outgoings covered (~$5,000/year + GST) while they're looking for commercial renters.

Examples of available suites:
http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-offices-vic-chirnside+park-500985543
http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-offices-vic-chirnside+park-500985535

Please, find your questions answered inline below.

Good luck.

Regards,
Jan

On 23/07/2014 1:34 pm, Chris Fryer wrote:

Is there cable, ASDL2 or NBN Internet available in this area?

I am on Telstra ADSL, right now Testspeed gives me 46 ms ping, 5.12Mbps download and 0.61Mbps upload.

Is there adequate toileting facilities for 5-10 people some of whom may be in electric wheelchairs?

Electric wheelchairs might be a problem as the access corridors and rooms are pretty narrow. I'm not aware of disabled toilets in the building, which doesn't seem right as it's been built only recently.

Are there plenty of power points?

10 power points in the 46m2 suite where I am.

[oscar...@gmail.com]

A shared space is a good possibility, Men's shed, Hacker space, art spaces are all good fits to co-use facilities as long as there is some security between co-tenants.

[Chris Fryer]

I contacted Manningham city council. They made positive noises, but I don't think they will be a huge amount of help. We discussed our requirements, but they just sent me a couple of brochures about hiring a hall.

Another avenue with Manningham city council is the possibility of getting a grant. Athough before we can go down that route we need to become a incorporated not-for-profit body.

Our local state primary school does work with other organisations in their community such as having a farmers market on their campus once a month. My (Biological) Dad Kevin Fryer has been a member of the Lions 

Club for a number of years and is an avid model aircraft builder / flyer so he probably has some contacts that could be of help.

So I will contact Kevin and talk to a couple of schools in this area.

"Melissa Lovic <Meliss...@manningham.vic.gov.au>

Attachments2:36 PM (23 hours ago)

to me 

Hi Chris,

 

Please find attached the conditions of hire and schedule of rates.

 

We do have small meeting rooms available on a Sunday afternoon at the Doncaster Seniors Centre.

 

Please notify me if you are interested and we can hold dates for you.

 

The phone cut out as I was trying to respond while I had you on hold. I could hear you although I don’t think you could hear me.

 

Could you please call me back.

Thank you

 

Kind Regards," 

Oops forgot to call her back...

Those attachments: 

[Chris Fryer]

http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-retail-vic-ringwood-501229091 $13,000.00 P.A

[Chris Fryer]

Bit small...

[Chris Fryer]

I enquired about it anyway, we'll see what response we get.

[Lachlan TubularControls]

Angus tidied up the CCHS space requirements a bit over at the new Wiki.  It's better in that it organises items according to how essential they are 

http://www.hackmelbourne.org/wiki/doc:new_space_requirements

[Lachlan TubularControls]

I think the idea meeting and hacking regularly in a community house (or someones garage), while we look for a more permanent space, is a good one.   This gives us a chance to grow and establish priorities and interests, and ultimately reduces risk.  We can do that straight away. 

With that in mind I had a look yesterday at the Maroondah Federation Estate, in Ringwood.  Its a modern spacious facility with plenty of parking and about 450m walk up Kendall ave from Ringwood Station.  Lots of perfect infrastructure ready to go (eg Wifi, whiteboard, meeting tables and chairs, kitchenette, smokers courtyard, after hours access, heating, no stairs etc). 

MFE would actually suit running a mini maker faire there, as there is a large courtyard in the middle and a wide variety of rooms including a couple of gallery spaces.  I've haven't been able to speak with the person who looks after the schedule to see what rooms are available when, but I get the impression its relatively available in evenings, and relatively used during the days.  There is a specific after hours entrance.   They have a "community workshop" room but unfortunately its being used for storage rather than a tool space. 

I'll post some links to my photos soon.   Hire for regular community groups is around $16 per hour, with an extra $16 to cover insurance, ie $48~64 per 2~3 hr meetup roughly.  But keep in mind we could get running quickly, and hack while we lobby councils and discuss other options for a permanent space. 

At CCHS we've run BBQs to help raise funds - should we get into the queue to do this?  Happy to drive a fundraiser, but the queues can be long.  We would have our not for profit paperwork together by the time it was our turn. 

Other options I've had a quick look at are a few vacant shops at far end of croydon shopping strip, and hope to talk to RTTF (part of Ringwood Secondary, they have some impressive CNC gear, Kuka robots, and hire out their meeting rooms)

Once I understand the various Maroondah space options well, I'll speak to the Maroondah council and see if we can align with their visions.  

Links:- 

Ringwood Federation Estate:- http://artsinmaroondah.com.au/MFE_Facilities.aspx

Ringwood Trade Training Facility:- http://www.rttf.vic.edu.au/

regards

Lachlan 

[Chris Fryer]

Wow, that looks great.

Can you find what days / time time they have space available?

Good find and wifi!

-Chris

[Lachlan TubularControls]

Had a positive meeting today with Joe Pollock at the Ringwood Trade Training Facilitity (attached to Ringwood Secondary College).  RTTF train apprentices in metal fabrication and automotive studies.  There is also a Cisco CCNA course centre at RSC.   

There are a number of engineering training rooms with good facilities, many are one floor up but there is a lift or stairs for access.   Some of the rooms are interesting, eg a room full of dedicated Solidworks workstations.   The room that seemed most suitable was once an engineering / electronics training room before government induced changes.  It has a kitchenette outside it.  

As you'd expect RTTF has lots of equipment including a laser cutter, mills, guillotines, kuka robot, hand tools etc.   We wouldn't necessarily have access to that equipment, but RTTF run short courses on welding and laser cutting.  There are some about to start, and an open night on Aug 12th for us to have a really good look around.  

Being primarily an educational facility, they may be better suited than a community house, for instance hard floors, projectors ready to go, ability to store materials between meets, and perhaps get small jobs made up by trainees in between meetings (for some fee).   In addition, there are connections to education and council that wouldn't be as available were we just to meet at a community house or office. 

Will post photos shortly.  

[Chris Fryer]

That looks awesome! Seriously. I guess we should definitely go to the open day on August 12. Their website encourages people to go and have a look I will do that during the week. Do they have a 3-D printer?

Maybe we could even do a deal help them set up a hack lab and we could use the space...hmm.

Anyway I will add August 12 to the meet up page, but I think we should meet before then. We really need to set up a committee even if it is just temporary.

FYI I also have a few medical issues (a bloody stupid mystery illness - seemingly unrelated to my muscular dystrophy- not too serious) that might get in my way of being as active as I would like to be.

[Mark Street]

Lachlan,

that place looks awesome, funny, having lived in and around Ringwood most of my life, and I had no idea it was there !

It sounds like it would make the perfect place to start as all the facilities are already there, and then you would only need to move out to a dedicated space when the group started getting too big / needing more storage etc.

Cheers,

Mark

[Lachlan TubularControls]

Hi All 

As promised I put the full photo set up here for you

http://tubular.smugmug.com/

its a 14 day trial account, will have to think of something more permanent, or perhaps we'll have everything sorted by then.  

The thing I like about the RTTF is there could be many synergies.  

- They wouldn't be scared of us making a bit of a light duty mess, providing its cleaned up, since thats what the rooms were intended for.   We might strike issues with a comfy carpeted community house. 

- They expressed an interest in getting a 3D printer, and I'm sure we could help with that side (build a Prusa for on site?).  Also they could include in the curriculum (they already have a room full of solidworks workstations, how can they _not_ have a 3d printer?)   

- Mark and I could perhaps look at getting their Kuka robot operating again.   

- They need more exposure to the outside world, which we could help provide.  We could perhaps even participate in open nights down the track.

- There are links to education and council that might help us with finding a more permanent space.   There's a senior council guy on the rttf board.

- The trades students would probably like being exposed to a bit of arduino, servos, robotics etc

- There are a lot of students at that school (we may have to market ourselves as a maker rather than hacker space to maximise their participation)

- A school is a relatively friendly place parents, kids to attend (lower barrier) 

- We discussed the possibility of leaving small jobs behind for the trades students to fabricate during the week (for a fee?). 

- If we wanted to run some kind of fair/expo it would be possible in same facility. 

- We can potentially grow membership faster by being in such a facility.  

- Could be a sound base if we want to be involved with Ringwood library's 'tinker space' when complete in 2016

- In short there's a heap of possibilities.  Keep in mind this is just a start, I think more is possible.

[oscar...@gmail.com]

Great looking facilities, (i think I want to live there) I think this would be a perfect place to hold our regular meeting during our setup period and possibly into the future if the facilities work out for us.

I would love to attend on the 12th as well, so maybe we need to get together before then to discuss our individual progresses so far and present a united front.

[Chris Fryer]

We could meet up here again some time next week?

[oscar...@gmail.com]

Hi Chris and the rest of the guy's, (inc Girls)

Sorry I haven't been too frequent on the forums lately, been a hectic week work and social wise.

Just to fill in a few blanks, finding a suitable site is proving quite difficult as I'm sure all those looking will know. I have drawn on a few contacts but all to no avail,
I'm still waiting on a response from Vic Roads as to using some of there locked away facilities (they tend to buy up land and buildings for future use and sit on them for many years doing nothing) One I like the look of but haven't seen inside is this one in Mooroolbark. I know the location wont suit many but its only an example of what they may have sitting empty.

Also I have spoken to the community organiser at Croydon Bunnings and was told that hey are fully booked up for BBQ bookings for the rest of this year and have enquiries for next year mounting up, they sometimes get cancellations at very short notice and slot in those who can provide a yes immediately to fill the spot. she will keep me informed if this happens. there are a few hoops to jump through like having a food handlers certificate (easy to get) and public liability insurance (may need our articles of association in place?)

I to am more than happy to pursue the Ringwood Training Facilities rooms and will be attending the open nite next week.

Chris I will call you shortly to discuss some of the organisation side of things and see you on the 17th if I dont see you on the open nite.

Peter