what can we learn from Nunavut or China?

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Floyd Marinescu

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Jun 12, 2021, 4:42:06 PMJun 12
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Hi everyone, this is my first post here. I'm wondering what we can learn from the property market right here in Nunavut where private land ownership isn't done but there is still a resale market for properties?

Or China where people buy brand new condo's on 70 year leases and can resell the remaining time on the lease but eventually it's back to the gov to resell at modern rental rates?

Are there any econometrics here that a Georgist would expect that we can point to as proof that these theories work? 

Does Nunavut's economy and society work the way George hoped?

Floyd

Frank de Jong

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Jun 14, 2021, 11:14:46 AMJun 14
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Well, Nunavut is a Georgist Shangrila even though they don't know it. All the land is owned by the gov and leased to people, and people own their own buildings. They vote every few years to see if communities want to change this, to include the land in the property, but so far it never changes. 

Many First Nations communities share royalties (rent) from mine at the local level. A number of them have negotiated smelter royalties rather than profit royalties, so hiding profits doesn't diminish the payments.

China could also be a Georgist Shangrila in that the gov owns all the land, but people are allowed to sublease and do so often at exorbitant prices, so many become fabulously wealthy rentiers. But, yes, the leases eventually run out and the gov can re-lease them at current rates.

Does anyone have more info for Floyd on these two jurisdictions?

Also, congratulations to Richard Pereira who was elected to the Robert Schalkenbach Foundation  on Saturday. It's always good to keep a few Canucks on this board to keep the Yanks in line.  : )

f



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Floyd Marinescu

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Jun 14, 2021, 12:12:16 PMJun 14
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I think these stories are really important. 

Well, Nunavut is a Georgist Shangrila even though they don't know it. All the land is owned by the gov and leased to people, and people own their own buildings. They vote every few years to see if communities want to change this, to include the land in the property, but so far it never changes. 

In order for us to effectively promote LVT or alternate approaches to land use, stories close to home or close to the public imagination are important to normalize the discussion. So if we have a working example right here in Canada, what can we learn from it? Have George's predictions come true in Nunvavut?
- is there less poverty than other parts of Canada?(Henry George's basic theorem)
- are income taxes less (I note top marginal income taxes are 5% less) enough to claim that land taxation can lower other deadweight taxes substantially?
- is economic growth faster than other parts of Canada?
- from the gov revenues side, anything interesting to note w.r.t. % and amount of revenue from leasing and how that is helping to pay for public services?
- are properties cheaper for residents BECAUSE of land leasing - any real case studies we can look at?

Being able to say "it works in Nunavut" with stats like this I think would really help the cause.

W.r.t. China, I found this nugget (minute 12) showing how privatizing the economic activity on land without privatizing land ownership was key to China's growth for the first 30 years of its rise.  https://youtu.be/_j4Ru918V4w?t=720 I read elsewhere that China wants to experiment with more updated forms of LVT for residential purposes. 

This paper seems to indicate the core thesis that self-financing infrastructure development due to land rent collection in China was key to its 'super normal' development speed. These are talking points every Georgist should have on hand….
 the paper indicates that the structural change of China's land regime around 1990 had an overall effect on the supernormal development of infrastructure in China. The paper indicates that the “land-based development mode” of China's infrastructure indeed contributed to the supernormal development of infrastructure in China

Floyd


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Polito

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Jun 14, 2021, 1:28:03 PMJun 14
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Great item. Surely they can put in some clauses which to find the terms of a sublease ... Similar to rent control.

Nobel Prize winners advocated the same for Russia... https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Open_letter_to_Mikhail_Gorbachev_(1990)

Floyd Marinescu

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Jun 15, 2021, 4:40:58 PMJun 15
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Nobel Prize winners advocated the same for Russia... https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Open_letter_to_Mikhail_Gorbachev_(1990)

This was a very educational read, thank you. 


On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 13:27:50, Polito <goodsam...@gmail.com> wrote:
Great item. Surely they can put in some clauses which to find the terms of a sublease ... Similar to rent control.

Nobel Prize winners advocated the same for Russia... https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Open_letter_to_Mikhail_Gorbachev_(1990)

On Mon., Jun. 14, 2021, 11:14 a.m. Frank de Jong, <fdejong@earthsharing.ca> wrote:
Well, Nunavut is a Georgist Shangrila even though they don't know it. All the land is owned by the gov and leased to people, and people own their own buildings. They vote every few years to see if communities want to change this, to include the land in the property, but so far it never changes. 

Many First Nations communities share royalties (rent) from mine at the local level. A number of them have negotiated smelter royalties rather than profit royalties, so hiding profits doesn't diminish the payments.

China could also be a Georgist Shangrila in that the gov owns all the land, but people are allowed to sublease and do so often at exorbitant prices, so many become fabulously wealthy rentiers. But, yes, the leases eventually run out and the gov can re-lease them at current rates.

Does anyone have more info for Floyd on these two jurisdictions?

Also, congratulations to Richard Pereira who was elected to the Robert Schalkenbach Foundation  on Saturday. It's always good to keep a few Canucks on this board to keep the Yanks in line.  : )

f



On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 4:42 PM Floyd Marinescu <floyd@floydmarinescu.com> wrote:
Hi everyone, this is my first post here. I'm wondering what we can learn from the property market right here in Nunavut where private land ownership isn't done but there is still a resale market for properties?

Or China where people buy brand new condo's on 70 year leases and can resell the remaining time on the lease but eventually it's back to the gov to resell at modern rental rates?

Are there any econometrics here that a Georgist would expect that we can point to as proof that these theories work? 

Does Nunavut's economy and society work the way George hoped?

Floyd

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