LVT and COVID

10 views
Skip to first unread message

Frank de Jong

unread,
Oct 3, 2020, 9:39:57 AM10/3/20
to Earthsharing Canada Google Group
Breakthrough piece on LVT and COVID, written by RSF ED Josie Faass!! f

Polito

unread,
Oct 3, 2020, 2:02:40 PM10/3/20
to earthshar...@googlegroups.com
Good one Frank

Joe Polito

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 9:39 AM Frank de Jong <fde...@earthsharing.ca> wrote:
Breakthrough piece on LVT and COVID, written by RSF ED Josie Faass!! f

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Earthsharing Canada" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to earthsharing-ca...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/earthsharing-canada/CA%2BM9nn_xzwX0xb-DS_2t3rx9V6hYFvSY4nwo8x3MU%2B%3D7KWqcKw%40mail.gmail.com.


--
“I don’t like that man. I must get to know him better.  (Abraham Lincoln)

BGHearns

unread,
Oct 4, 2020, 6:02:58 AM10/4/20
to earthshar...@googlegroups.com
Hey, Frank

Certainly a good opportunity to make the case to our politicians as the standard economy that was starting to creak and rattle was blown over like a house of cards with a giant cough.

Bruce Hearns

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 9:39 AM Frank de Jong <fde...@earthsharing.ca> wrote:
Breakthrough piece on LVT and COVID, written by RSF ED Josie Faass!! f

Frank Remiz

unread,
Oct 4, 2020, 1:31:15 PM10/4/20
to Earthsharing Canada
Why don't we do something like that here!!  We could begin with a small Canadian urban centre.  First, we would need to compile the detailed property tax assessment data.  That would then be grouped for each neighbourhood/zone-BuildingType combination, i.e. Neighbourhood1-Residential;  Neighbourhood1-Commercial;  Neighbourhood1-Industrial;  Neighbourhood2-Residential, ....   The third step would be to impute the approximate portion of each 'cell' that is for the value of the built structures, as distinct from the value of the land itself.  The final step would be to import those estimates into a GIS tool (like CPTR's 'Tax Shift Explorer'). Then it becomes easy for a city planner, or anyone, to carry out impact analysis, i.e. to determine how to phase in LVT in a politically-acceptable manner. 
  

Jassal Devpreet

unread,
Oct 4, 2020, 2:14:32 PM10/4/20
to earthshar...@googlegroups.com, Joshua Vincent
Hi Frank,

Nice Idea........Talk to Joshua Vincent he has done lots of work in this field.

Regards,

Devpreet Jassal 

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 1:31 PM Frank Remiz <fr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Why don't we do something like that here!!  We could begin with a small Canadian urban centre.  First, we would need to compile the detailed property tax assessment data.  That would then be grouped for each neighbourhood/zone-BuildingType combination, i.e. Neighbourhood1-Residential;  Neighbourhood1-Commercial;  Neighbourhood1-Industrial;  Neighbourhood2-Residential, ....   The third step would be to impute the approximate portion of each 'cell' that is for the value of the built structures, as distinct from the value of the land itself.  The final step would be to import those estimates into a GIS tool (like CPTR's 'Tax Shift Explorer'). Then it becomes easy for a city planner, or anyone, to carry out impact analysis, i.e. to determine how to phase in LVT in a politically-acceptable manner. 
  

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Earthsharing Canada" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to earthsharing-ca...@googlegroups.com.

Frank de Jong

unread,
Oct 5, 2020, 8:44:16 AM10/5/20
to Earthsharing Canada Google Group
Frank. Now we just need somebody to donate $10 or $20 million which we can invest to generate a couple hundred grand a year to hire staff to put your plan into effect.  : )

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 1:31 PM Frank Remiz <fr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Why don't we do something like that here!!  We could begin with a small Canadian urban centre.  First, we would need to compile the detailed property tax assessment data.  That would then be grouped for each neighbourhood/zone-BuildingType combination, i.e. Neighbourhood1-Residential;  Neighbourhood1-Commercial;  Neighbourhood1-Industrial;  Neighbourhood2-Residential, ....   The third step would be to impute the approximate portion of each 'cell' that is for the value of the built structures, as distinct from the value of the land itself.  The final step would be to import those estimates into a GIS tool (like CPTR's 'Tax Shift Explorer'). Then it becomes easy for a city planner, or anyone, to carry out impact analysis, i.e. to determine how to phase in LVT in a politically-acceptable manner. 
  

--

Polito

unread,
Oct 5, 2020, 8:53:12 AM10/5/20
to earthshar...@googlegroups.com
A national program could be done through tweaking capital gains rules to reduce incentive to speculate in land. It is crazy for a non-capital, non human produced goods to be eligible for capital gains deductions. 

Polito

unread,
Oct 7, 2020, 12:27:34 AM10/7/20
to earthshar...@googlegroups.com
Please help. 
Something I do not understand is why LVT would continue to be a great source of income. If LVT worked, land would stop being a target of speculation. The price would fall, and there would be less unearned appreciation, less economic rent to capture. 

Related article - http://www.wealthandwant.com/pdf/Batt_Saving_the_Commons.pdf

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 9:39 AM Frank de Jong <fde...@earthsharing.ca> wrote:
Breakthrough piece on LVT and COVID, written by RSF ED Josie Faass!! f

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Earthsharing Canada" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to earthsharing-ca...@googlegroups.com.

Jassal Devpreet

unread,
Oct 7, 2020, 8:41:39 AM10/7/20
to earthshar...@googlegroups.com, Edward Dodson
The price we pay for the land is only a fraction of its real value. The value is set based on affordability of individuals. We need to rewrite the tax laws using the real value of the land which could be 10 times the speculative value. The land could be bought and sold at speculative value, but the value of the land must be much higher in federal books.

Another way of looking at it is universal basic income.....Ed Dodson has done extensive studies on this topic.

Devpreet Jassal

Polito

unread,
Oct 7, 2020, 9:25:37 AM10/7/20
to earthshar...@googlegroups.com, Edward Dodson
Thanks I found two items by Ed and will do some homework... but I am a slow learner :)

Given your good advice on that question, let me ask another - are there any good resources on Henry George and monetary reform?

Thanks again.

Joe Polito

Jassal Devpreet

unread,
Oct 7, 2020, 10:28:25 AM10/7/20
to earthshar...@googlegroups.com
I don't have any suggestion on monetary reform......but I am sure someone would respond.

Devpreet Jassal

Frank de Jong

unread,
Oct 7, 2020, 8:09:10 PM10/7/20
to Earthsharing Canada Google Group
Land isn't like buildings, CO2 or cigarettes which can be taxed out of use.  LVT captures the unearned income that accrues to land (economic rent). Taxing land can't reduce the amount of land, therefore government revenue from land rent never disappears.


On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:27 AM Polito <goodsam...@gmail.com> wrote:

Polito

unread,
Oct 7, 2020, 8:42:30 PM10/7/20
to earthshar...@googlegroups.com
I have come to understand those basic principles and I support the change. But Henry George seemed to say that single tax would provide all the revenue needed for governments. if LVT was used, wouldn't the price of land fall, wouldn't the land hoarders put their land on the market, wouldn't more homes and apartments be built and at a lower price? With stable land prices, wouldn't the federal taxes fall when land was sold, wouldn't the municipal taxes because land prices would fall?

To put it another way, that single tax approach would provide less income in a few years, and other tax sources would be important - including other taxes or rents on common wealth like mineral rights, stumpage fees, communication frequencies, etcetera

Regards

Joe Polito



Frank de Jong

unread,
Oct 7, 2020, 9:06:32 PM10/7/20
to Earthsharing Canada Google Group
Correct, Joe, there are many sources of rent in every economy. Governments collect about 25% of the GDP in taxes and the economic rent available in every economy is also about 25%, so yes, rent capture is sufficient to finance all levels of government. 

LVT doesn't affect the value of land. It just re-directs the land rent to government instead of to the landowner. The cost of owning or renting land would remain unchanged. Doing so would allow gov to eliminate income, sales and business taxes. Correct, the incentive to speculate in land would no longer exist, so those holding land for speculation would sell to those who can use the land more efficiently. But the rental value of land would remain unchanged regardless who owned it. 

Bank mortgages would no longer be needed when buying land, the prospective landowner would instead take over the land tax paid monthly to gov. 








Polito

unread,
Oct 7, 2020, 9:45:03 PM10/7/20
to earthshar...@googlegroups.com
Great explanation !!! That really helps .

Thanks so much 

Joe Polito 

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages