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Thank you for stripping this down to a minimal example. That makes it easy to examine. I wish more people would do this.
Your task program behaves exactly as designed. You have some confusion about how PreRelease works. Please read about PreRelease in the documentation that comes with E-Prime. Also, search for "prerelease" in this Group to find threads that discuss this. Or reread the explanation of PreRelease in my first post in this thread. Hint: Try setting PreRelease to 0 on all of your stimulus objects.
-- David McFarlane
________________________________________
From: e-p...@googlegroups.com <e-p...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roni Shafir <ronis...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 2:34 PM
To: E-Prime
Subject: Re: connecting between e-prime and a socket device
Thank you both!
We're actually still having problems making this work. Just to make sure I'm clear - we want eprime to send triggers to Unity so that Unity can play the VR segments in accordance with the timing defined in e-prime. For instance, we want Unity to display a fixation for 2 seconds at the beginning of each trial. We need inlines that "tell" unity when and for how long to play it.
Now, we moved the task events and we're using inlines before and after each event. We can successfully send triggers but for some reason the duration of the videos is not correct.
I've attached the e-prime file we're working with (basic task that has 2 trials: 2 seconds ITI ---> 3 seconds pain ----> 1 second jitter), as well as the output triggers. For some reason, the duration of the iti is the duration of the jitter, the duration of the pain is that of the ITI, and the duration of the jitter is that of pain. We're obviously missing something here...
Please let me know if you have any suggestions.
Thanks again!
Roni
On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 9:54 AM David McFarlane <mcfa...@msu.edu<mailto:mcfa...@msu.edu>> wrote:
Michiel, Yep, I saw "task events" in the third (second?) paragraph and
ran with that, completely overlooking "We use an inline" at the end of
the first paragraph. Thanks for filling in that angle.
Roni, I hope you find something useful in all this :).
-- David McFarlane
On 2021-11-04 Thu 7:20 PM, Spape, Michiel wrote:
> Hi,
> Sorry, I forgot to say the following about more practical considerations when it comes to VR. I've worked quite a bit with VR, E-Prime, and time-sensitive experiments, and from my experience, there's quite a bit of delay between when you want something to be shown on the screen and when it's actually shown. That is, here (internal-journal.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2017.00079/full<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://internal-journal.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2017.00079/full__;!!HXCxUKc!kW4wT5yhVthr0KL1Mn_anGWItAOWSNG-TfahsGy1S03ZIMgK7RtAsV22PqiVMr-f$> ) we made specific comparisons between VR, a normal screen, and a virtual screen in a virtual replication of our lab, and we had to go through all sorts of hoops to measure the screen latency between com port triggers and visual input. In fact, we used a light sensor, stuck with a bit of gum to the HMD to find out the delay was in the range of 40 ms or so (if memory serves) in VR conditions compared to a delay in a normal Unity application of ca 80 ms. Point being both were quite substantial.
> For more discussion of OnsetTime, OffsetTime, and related matters, please see the threads at groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/OeiZ00V9SRc<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/OeiZ00V9SRc__;!!HXCxUKc!kW4wT5yhVthr0KL1Mn_anGWItAOWSNG-TfahsGy1S03ZIMgK7RtAsV22PvPzFIVP$>
> , groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/6jTtoQ8qENg<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/6jTtoQ8qENg__;!!HXCxUKc!kW4wT5yhVthr0KL1Mn_anGWItAOWSNG-TfahsGy1S03ZIMgK7RtAsV22PoqFNQDS$> , and groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/luXrAFWy7Sc<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/luXrAFWy7Sc__;!!HXCxUKc!kW4wT5yhVthr0KL1Mn_anGWItAOWSNG-TfahsGy1S03ZIMgK7RtAsV22PsfF5T1e$> .
>
> -- David McFarlane
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OK. So did setting PreRelease to 0 fix the problem that you posted earlier?
Thanks,
-- David McFarlane
________________________________________
From: e-p...@googlegroups.com <e-p...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Roni Shafir <ronis...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 9:48 AM
To: e-p...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: connecting between e-prime and a socket device
Thanks! Yes, I have already changed it to 0, but accidentally sent the previous version.
Thanks for your assistance!
Roni
בתאריך יום ב׳, 8 בנוב׳ 2021 ב-8:51 מאת McFarlane, David <mcfa...@msu.edu<mailto:mcfa...@msu.edu>>:
Roni,
Thank you for stripping this down to a minimal example. That makes it easy to examine. I wish more people would do this.
Your task program behaves exactly as designed. You have some confusion about how PreRelease works. Please read about PreRelease in the documentation that comes with E-Prime. Also, search for "prerelease" in this Group to find threads that discuss this. Or reread the explanation of PreRelease in my first post in this thread. Hint: Try setting PreRelease to 0 on all of your stimulus objects.
-- David McFarlane
________________________________________
From: e-p...@googlegroups.com<mailto:e-p...@googlegroups.com> <e-p...@googlegroups.com<mailto:e-p...@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Roni Shafir <ronis...@gmail.com<mailto:ronis...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 2:34 PM
To: E-Prime
Subject: Re: connecting between e-prime and a socket device
Thank you both!
We're actually still having problems making this work. Just to make sure I'm clear - we want eprime to send triggers to Unity so that Unity can play the VR segments in accordance with the timing defined in e-prime. For instance, we want Unity to display a fixation for 2 seconds at the beginning of each trial. We need inlines that "tell" unity when and for how long to play it.
Now, we moved the task events and we're using inlines before and after each event. We can successfully send triggers but for some reason the duration of the videos is not correct.
I've attached the e-prime file we're working with (basic task that has 2 trials: 2 seconds ITI ---> 3 seconds pain ----> 1 second jitter), as well as the output triggers. For some reason, the duration of the iti is the duration of the jitter, the duration of the pain is that of the ITI, and the duration of the jitter is that of pain. We're obviously missing something here...
Please let me know if you have any suggestions.
Thanks again!
Roni
On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 9:54 AM David McFarlane <mcfa...@msu.edu<mailto:mcfa...@msu.edu><mailto:mcfa...@msu.edu<mailto:mcfa...@msu.edu>>> wrote:
Michiel, Yep, I saw "task events" in the third (second?) paragraph and
ran with that, completely overlooking "We use an inline" at the end of
the first paragraph. Thanks for filling in that angle.
Roni, I hope you find something useful in all this :).
-- David McFarlane
On 2021-11-04 Thu 7:20 PM, Spape, Michiel wrote:
> Hi,
> Sorry, I forgot to say the following about more practical considerations when it comes to VR. I've worked quite a bit with VR, E-Prime, and time-sensitive experiments, and from my experience, there's quite a bit of delay between when you want something to be shown on the screen and when it's actually shown. That is, here (internal-journal.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2017.00079/full<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://internal-journal.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2017.00079/full__;!!HXCxUKc!kFf44gpxJC8R-j_pkk4wM9qXSJ2oV2-A9hV2xFnizgsW1S8kQ9HZY0TpElpf3k07$><https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://internal-journal.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2017.00079/full__;!!HXCxUKc!kW4wT5yhVthr0KL1Mn_anGWItAOWSNG-TfahsGy1S03ZIMgK7RtAsV22PqiVMr-f$> ) we made specific comparisons between VR, a normal screen, and a virtual screen in a virtual replication of our lab, and we had to go through all sorts of hoops to measure the screen latency between com port triggers and visual input. In fact, we used a light sensor, stuck with a bit of gum to the HMD to find out the delay was in the range of 40 ms or so (if memory serves) in VR conditions compared to a delay in a normal Unity application of ca 80 ms. Point being both were quite substantial.
> For more discussion of OnsetTime, OffsetTime, and related matters, please see the threads at groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/OeiZ00V9SRc<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/OeiZ00V9SRc__;!!HXCxUKc!kFf44gpxJC8R-j_pkk4wM9qXSJ2oV2-A9hV2xFnizgsW1S8kQ9HZY0TpEj9rZCpE$><https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/OeiZ00V9SRc__;!!HXCxUKc!kW4wT5yhVthr0KL1Mn_anGWItAOWSNG-TfahsGy1S03ZIMgK7RtAsV22PvPzFIVP$>
> , groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/6jTtoQ8qENg<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/6jTtoQ8qENg__;!!HXCxUKc!kFf44gpxJC8R-j_pkk4wM9qXSJ2oV2-A9hV2xFnizgsW1S8kQ9HZY0TpErh06m1b$><https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/6jTtoQ8qENg__;!!HXCxUKc!kW4wT5yhVthr0KL1Mn_anGWItAOWSNG-TfahsGy1S03ZIMgK7RtAsV22PoqFNQDS$> , and groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/luXrAFWy7Sc<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/luXrAFWy7Sc__;!!HXCxUKc!kFf44gpxJC8R-j_pkk4wM9qXSJ2oV2-A9hV2xFnizgsW1S8kQ9HZY0TpEirU9WFv$><https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/luXrAFWy7Sc__;!!HXCxUKc!kW4wT5yhVthr0KL1Mn_anGWItAOWSNG-TfahsGy1S03ZIMgK7RtAsV22PsfF5T1e$> .
>
> -- David McFarlane
>
>
> On 2021-11-04 Thu 1:17 PM, ronis...@gmail.com<mailto:ronis...@gmail.com><mailto:ronis...@gmail.com<mailto:ronis...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> We're trying to send triggers from e-prime to a VR application via a
>> socket devise. Specifically, we want to sent strings at the onset and
>> at the offset of each trial objects. This way we want the VR
>> application to play certain videos according to e-prime's commands. We
>> use an inline before each object:
>>
>> Socket.WriteString "Object_Onset"
>> Socket.WriteString "Object_Offset"
>>
>> We also defined OnsetTime and OffsetTime in the task events properties
>> of each object.
>>
>> We currently see both triggers ("Object_Onset" and "Object_Offset")
>> sent to the socket, but both are sent at the same time - onset of the objects.
>>
>> We would appreciate your help.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Roni
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Another thing that might help you (or someone else chancing upon this thread) to troubleshoot this: In your InLine code, add a couple lines to log the time of outputting your messages from the E-Prime side. Add this either immediately before or after your Socket.WriteString commands. E.g.,
c.SetAttrib "Socket.Mssg", "ITI_ST"
c.SetAttrib "Socket.Time", Clock.Read
Socket.WriteString "ITI_ST"
This will add two columns to the .edat2 file that log the message type & time from E-Prime. You could then compare this to the results in your external equipment.
-- David McFarlane
________________________________________
From: e-p...@googlegroups.com <e-p...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of McFarlane, David <mcfa...@msu.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 9:59 AM
Roni,
Thanks,
-- David McFarlane
-- David McFarlane
Thank you both!
Thanks again!
Roni
-- David McFarlane
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