Re: [Infinity Foundation Satsang] Re: "Will" originates

[Rajan Menon]

Namaskar, 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

A quote from the Gospel according to John - The New Testament of the Christian Bible.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:42 PM, DevinderSingh Gulati <devindersi...@gmail.com> wrote:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

[DevinderSingh Gulati]

The first two formulations tell us Sikhi is monist. Monism says one reality is all. Monotheism says God is separate from creation. Look at the first two principles of Sikhi:

1. There is only one reality.

2. It is both transcendent and immanent.

Together they tell us, God himself is the creation.

The Abrahamic religions deny this. All three Abrahamic religions are Monotheist. How can we call Sikhi Monotheist?

Listen to this video from minute 2:00: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMq1slERykE&t=18s

It is therefore incumbent on the appropriate Sikhi authorities to correct this view.

So let us take up the third Sikhi principle - the one reality has a will.

It is the exercise of the will that sets creation in motion.

So long as the will is not exercised God is all alone by himself in his NIRGUN STATUS.

But for creation to emerge from the transcendence, the Sargun has to issue forth.

So he grows in himself the sargun.

Āpe āp upā▫e vigsai āpe kīmaṯ pā▫iḏā. ||6||

[He created Himself, and rejoiced; He evaluates Himself. ||6||]

https://www.sehaj.in/guru-granth-sahib/ang/1035

AAPE AAP UPAIA means he grew in himself.

It is the moment when Karta Purakh and the power of creation naam  come into being.

Karta Purakh is sargun. Before that there was only the nirgun.

To make creation, the one reality, which is nirgun establishes in itself the sargun.

It is not that the nirgun "transforms" itself.

The nirgun establishes a new status of itself without itself changing.

The primary remains true and the sargun is also true.

Aad sach; jugad sach.

At this point of description in the Gurbani at page 1035 only the sargun has emerged, but creation is not yet.

Haibhee Sach is yet to follow.

Karam ḏẖaram nahī mā▫i▫ā mākẖī.

There was no karma, no Dharma, no buzzing fly of Maya.

Nā ṯaḏ gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān kul opaṯ nā ko gaṇaṯ gaṇā▫iḏā. ||9||

There was no spiritual wisdom or meditation, no ancestry or creation, no reckoning of accounts. ||9||

In nirgun there is no sargun to begin with.

The sargun is established with the the emergence of Karta Purakh and Naam.

Actual creation Maya is the manifestation of spirit as matter.

Matter and Spirit are the same as per the second principle.

2. It is both transcendent and immanent.

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 11:30 AM DevinderSingh Gulati <devindersi...@gmail.com> wrote:

The basic premise of Sikhi - its most fundamental - is; God exists.

Without this formulation there could be no existence as we know it.

There would be no creation, no "us", no speculative thought - nothing.

Just imagine that - a nihil.

We are because God exists - basic.

From page 1035 of Gurbani we learn:

Ŧujẖ ṯe upjahi ṯujẖ māhi samāvėh.

They issue forth from You, and merge again into You.

Arbaḏ narbaḏ ḏẖunḏẖūkārā.

For endless eons, there was only utter darkness.

Ḏẖaraṇ na gagnā hukam apārā.

There was no earth or sky; there was only the infinite Command of His Hukam.

Nā ḏin rain na cẖanḏ na sūraj sunn samāḏẖ lagā▫iḏā. ||1||

There was no day or night, no moon or sun; God sat in primal, profound Samaadhi. ||1||

Avar na ḏīsai eko so▫ī.

No one was seen, except the One Lord.

https://www.sehaj.in/guru-granth-sahib/ang/1035

There was only God and his will, says Nanak.

So let us examine this in terms of the first three formulations of Sikh philosophy.

1. There is only one reality.

2. It is both transcendent and immanent.

3. It is self conscious and possessed of will.

This one reality could have continued in its self-satisfied, self-conscious samadhi and creation would never have been.

It is only when IT exercised its will to verify all its potential that creation came into being.

So it is His will that originates.

Contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad, and be rid of your ego. ... My Lord and Master, by the Pleasure of His Will,creates and destroys them [all beings].

aapay raavay sabad thaap. ||2||
He established the world by Word of His Shabad, and He Himself ravishes it. ||2||

http://www.srigurugranth.org/1190.html

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[Thirumala Raya Halemane]

shree devinder singh gulati ji, great scholar no doubt, has done a remarkably great, excellent job of analyzing various religions, philosophical / spiritual approaches / paths etc while adhering to reality, nature of truth and so on, even taking people to task. he deserves a lot of respect for his scholarship, courage and wisdom .... our hats off, our many thanks, regards, namaskars-praNaams and best wishes to him, shree sir devinder singh gulati ji sir avarugaLu and family, also to the sikhs and to all. ...

awhile ago, like from three to six weeks ago perhaps, (sorry i was not able to get the specific email), i think someone here had an email saying that in manu smriti a woman was not considered to be worthy of independence, but was supposed to be protected by the father as a daughter, by the husband as a wife, by the son as a mother. perhaps, the comments were written as a complaint or as if something was wrong with hinduism / sanatana dharma / brahminism and caste system. Although not relevant in today's world, such things are often brought up to target hinduism in a weaponized form,, to make a punching bag out of hinduism... poor guys, paapa, .... 

But actually, if you think about it, that is the ideal every girl / woman / mother / old lady longs for, which person does not want to be fully loved by their parents, spouse, children etc ??? how to keep and feel one's own independence in an interconnected world is the problem or challenge every individual faces. and what happens when things do not work out in the ideal way, when things go wrong etc are also factors to consider of course. ,,, in very strict societies / disciplines / religions / sects / sampradayas / communities (perhaps including islam) the penalty for or when things go wrong or for misadventures is very high, that is the rules are very very strict (like in military, say) and those strict rules help to keep the discipline etc we might say, ..... ????

anyway, it is good to see that the sikhs, our friends, seem to have taken a broader or global world view, and stage for action, "Virat Sikh" we can call them perhaps, using the same or similar language "Virat Hindu" for the hindus, which the highly respected global indian hindu leader sir shree dr subramanian swamy ji sir avarugaLu has coined / utilized / inspired hindus to adopt and rise up to. again, our hats off, our many thanks, regards, namaskaars-praNaams and best wishes to him and family and to all. .... 

Great. Best Wishes. Aummmmmm...... 

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 10:43 PM DevinderSingh Gulati devindersi...@gmail.com [TheBecoming] <TheBe...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Let us return for a moment to minute 3:10 of the video. Satpal makes a distinction between the nirgun and the sargun. They are a continuum of course, but also distinct.

Ik is nirgun, Onkar is sargun: and there are three distinctions in the continuam: Ik - Ong - Kar. The distinctions are Aad; Jugad; Haibhee. The nirgun, the pre-creation and creation.

Onkar is the unfoldment. It is vibration.. Vibration is motion. There is no activity in nirgun. Nirgun is motionless sunn.

Onkar then is a statement in speech of activity that is constantly happening in sargun or creation as a continuing unfoldment that is withdrawable by HIS will.

The activity is silent, but its expression is shabad - the word.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

He established the world by Word of His Shabad, and He Himself ravishes it. ||2|

Contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad, and be rid of your ego. ...

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Posted by: DevinderSingh Gulati <devindersi...@gmail.com>

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[DevinderSingh Gulati]

Let us return for a moment to minute 3:10 of the video. Satpal makes a distinction between the nirgun and the sargun. They are a continuum of course, but also distinct.

Ik is nirgun, Onkar is sargun: and there are three distinctions in the continuam: Ik - Ong - Kar. The distinctions are Aad; Jugad; Haibhee. The nirgun, the pre-creation and creation.

Onkar is the unfoldment. It is vibration. Vibration is motion. There is no activity in nirgun. Nirgun is motionless sunn.

Onkar then is a statement in speech of activity that is constantly happening in sargun or creation as a continuing unfoldment that is withdrawable by HIS will.

The activity is silent, but its expression is shabad - the word.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

He established the world by Word of His Shabad, and He Himself ravishes it. ||2|

Contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad, and be rid of your ego. ...