How to set right the defaulters?

[Chandan Bose]

Dear Mr. Rejimon,
 
I am the General Secretary of the Residents Welfare Association of DDA SFS Flats, Pocket-1, Sector-1, Dwarka.  We have fixed a monthly subscription of Rs.150/- only from the residents of our pocket.  Some residents are in the habit of enjoying all facilities, but at the cost of others.  They do not pay the monthly subscriptions.  Number of circulars, notices have been sent to them, but in vain.
 
Could you please suggest as to how to recover their dues?

Chandan Bose
Cell: 9968227724

---

It's about getting married. Click here! Try it!

[p. menon]

This is a common problem being faced by every RWA, whether it is DDA pockets or CGHS, but it is never discussed on this forum.   The RWA have the right to withdraw the services provided included under the maintenance charges of Rs.150.   For example: Ours is a co-operative society.  In our society we collect Rs.800/- per month from each flat, which includes services like, sweeper, electrician, plumber, water, intercom, generator connection, etc.  When the outstanding amount from a particular flat goes beyond certain limit, we start withdrawing services one after another, ofcourse after giving enough advance warning in writing.  This is in addition to penal interest @ 18% on the outstanding amount.    This system works satisfactorily in our society to some extent.       Societies and DDA pockets facing this problem may try this system with modifications, if required.   - P.Menon --- On Thu, 3/7/08, Chandan Bose <chand...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it.

[REJIMON Keshavan Chathanchirayil]

Dear Mr. Bose, I agree with Mr. Menon and u may make necessary amendments in your Rules & Regulations and MoU to counter defaulters as suggested.

 

Unfotunately the RWA's(DDA Pockets) are registred one of the OLDEST ACt (i.e. Socities Act 1860) a pre independence Act and not made any amendments. This mainly beause this very Socities Act used by Lakhs of Politicians and Corrupt people to register Trusts/NGO's to EVADE Tax and get other other benefits. There is no transparency and there is no accountability in this Act.

I hope some leagal practicising members fo Dwarka Bar Council file a PIL to have this Act amended with current requirments.

As far as CGHS are concerned it is still somewhat better with amended upto year 2006.

Thanks,
Rejimon

--
REJIMON C K.
Nav Sansad Vihar, Sector 22, Dwarka, New Delhi-110077
India.
P    Help save trees and paper - print only if necessary?

[sushil kumar]

Even if u change your MOU it will not work.Unless a person subscribes to the MOU it will not binding on him.For instances a person who is not taking the membership in writing the provision of MOU is not applicable on him.In CGHS unless you become a member u can not have flat but in DDA pocket it is not mandatory.Therefore,merely any one can not be termed as member of the RWA because he lives in that perticular pocket.
 
Second para is very important but it will not have no impact even if the Society Act gets changed.Let us keep in mind RWA is not a statutory body and therefore,no one can enforce for recovery.
Yes,certainly you can withdraw the facility provided by RWA but some time it is difficult in DDA pocket unlike CGHS because they can even disturb light,water also.In my view we should always try to solve this problem amicably.In our country so many person do not even pay tax despite of having so much provision for punishment.Try to bring more people into net by setting example of good work.If you go in mass to put pressure for recovery it might work.
 
regards
sushil

---

Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:54:39 +0530
From: reji...@gmail.com
To: Dwarka-r...@googlegroups.com
Subject: DF: Re: How to set right the defaulters?

[Mahesh Gupta]

Yes, I do agree with Mr. Sushil. The only way left with the management committee of RWA is persuance. Nothing much can be done in DDA Pockets. Each house owner is an entity with independent water, electricity etc. RWA's in DDA pockets. RWA's in DDA charge monthly subscribtion mostly for security, horticulture, cleanlinedd of the complex etc. These being common facility, I feel may not have any impact on the defaulters.

So it is better to approach in group and understand the problem of the defaulting resident and try to persue.

Mahesh Gupta

 

Yes, I do agree with Mr Sushil. The only way left with the management committee of RWA is persuance. Nothing much can be done in DDA pockets. Each house owner is an entity with independent water, electricity etc. RWA's in DDA

 

[anil nayal]

There is no OPTION other than withdrawing the facilities being provided / arranged by RWAs. It depends on the RWA that what system they have laid down. 

 

We have implement this option in our pocket and now all are paying monthly subscription to RWA regularly.

 

thanks

anil nayal

[activist]

Mr. Anil Nayal

I must congratulate your RWA management on achieving 100% compliance
in DDA pocket. Please elaborate on your methods.

In my view, contribution compliance can be improved due to many
factors including

- Sincerety of RWA management in pursuing common issues,
- Action towards tangible results
- Transparency
- Involvement with residents
- Peer or group pressure

Mahesh Tak

On Jul 3, 2:48 pm, "anil nayal" <anilna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is no OPTION other than withdrawing the facilities being provided /
> arranged by RWAs. It depends on the RWA that what system they have laid
> down.
>
> We have implement this option in our pocket and now all are paying monthly
> subscription to RWA regularly.
>
> thanks
> anil nayal
>

[anil nayal]

Regarding outstadning monthly subcription we generally visit the particular residents in a group and try to convince him 2-3 times. If he still not willing to pay the monthly subscription then we stop all the facilities being provided by RWA and also ask the Guard not to operate the Gate for particular residents, he himself will get down from his vehicle and will operate the Gate.

 

In DDA pocket generally only few facilities being provided like daily garbage collection / security. The most effective action is ASK THE GUARD THAT "NOT TO OPEN THE GATE FOR PARTICULAR RESIDENTS AND THEIR GUEST".

 

thanks

anil nayal

[REJIMON Keshavan Chathanchirayil]

y dont u put those Defaulters name in BIG BOARD.. after expiry of reminder notices?

There is diffrence as said by our member in comparison with CGHS.. In DDA pocket is very difficult as its not mandatory for flat members to join DDA RWA. as suggeted convince them or all RWA work to get Act amended. my persona view. Rejimon

 

[P.J. THOMAS]

Putting the name of the defaulters in BIG BOARD may invite trouble to
the office bearers of the RWA as they may have to face defamation
case! The best way is to circulate amongst all members the names of
the defaulters and the circular should superscribe 'CONFIDENTIAL/
PRIVATE CIRCULATION ONLY'.

Mr. Anil Nayal's suggestion is more practical. If other members of
the colony is ready to cooperate, take a decision that they will
boycott the part-time servant/sweeper/any other service provider
employed by the defaulters. The Guard should not accept the mails/
courier meant for these persons. Their Social boycott is the best
treatment. The RWA should be bold in their approach.


On Jul 4, 10:19 am, "REJIMON Keshavan Chathanchirayil"

<rejimo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> y dont u put those Defaulters name in BIG BOARD.. after expiry of reminder
> notices?
> There is diffrence as said by our member in comparison with CGHS.. In DDA
> pocket is very difficult as its not mandatory for flat members to join DDA
> RWA. as suggeted convince them or all RWA work to get Act amended. my
> persona view. Rejimon
>

> On 7/4/08, anil nayal <anilna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Regarding outstadning monthly subcription we generally visit the particular
> > residents in a group and try to convince him 2-3 times. If he still not
> > willing to pay the monthly subscription then we stop all the facilities
> > being provided by RWA and also ask the Guard not to operate the Gate for
> > particular residents, he himself will get down from his vehicle and will
> > operate the Gate.
>
> > In DDA pocket generally only few facilities being provided like daily
> > garbage collection / security. The most effective action is ASK THE GUARD
> > THAT "NOT TO OPEN THE GATE FOR PARTICULAR RESIDENTS AND THEIR GUEST".
>
> > thanks
> > anil nayal
>

> --
> REJIMON C K.

> Nav Sansad Vihar, Sector 22, Dwarka, New Delhi-110077
> India.

> P    Help save trees and paper - print only if necessary?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[c.p. arora]

In our society we once introduced the system of not opening the gates by guards.  The defaulters themself had to get down from their cars to open/close the gate.  Similarly we stopped sweeper from collecting grrbage from the house of defaulters.  It worked.  You may also try the same.   --- On Fri, 4/7/08, P.J. THOMAS <tttho...@gmail.com> wrote:

[REJIMON Keshavan Chathanchirayil]

display of defaulter is done by even by MCD (property tax defaulters) other agencies. Many of the CGHS do that practice.

[kuldeep sharma]

In the first instance a group comprising the office-bearers and some members should request the defaulter giving him a reasonable time, say 15 days,  to clear the dues.

If the dues are not cleared even after the 15 days' period, then the defaulter should be given notice that the facilities of maintenance are being withdrawn for 15 days with immediate effect and that he should clear the dues, without incurring Interest Charges within these 15 days. 

If still the defaulter does not clear the dues inpite of the above, then notice should be issued to him to clear the dues with 15 days, alongwith Interest Charge of say 18 percent commencing from the date when the Maintenance Charge became payable also informing him that this notice is also being displayed on the Big Board.

 

However, I think the situation of displaying the notice on the Big Board will never arise as afterall keeping some dignity will be a compelling factor.

 

If, however, he gets into some temporary financial problem, let his case be dealt with by the ofice bearers for making payments with interest in instalments.

 

Kuldeep Sharma

 

 

When the telephone/Mobile is not paid, the outgoing is withdrawn. If still the payment is not made, then the phone connection itself goes into the category of "temporary disconnection"

 

----- Original Message ----
From: c.p. arora <aror...@yahoo.co.in>
To: Dwarka-r...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 4, 2008 4:05:59 PM
Subject: Dwarka Forum: Re: DF: Re: How to set right the defaulters?

In our society we once introduced the system of not opening the gates by guards.  The defaulters themself had to get down from their cars to open/close the gate.  Similarly we stopped sweeper from collecting grrbage from the house of defaulters.  It worked.  You may also try the same.   --- On Fri, 4/7/08, P.J. THOMAS <tttho...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: P.J. THOMAS <tttho...@gmail.com> Subject: Dwarka Forum: Re: DF: Re: How to set right the defaulters? To: "Dwarka-Residents" <Dwarka-r...@googlegroups.com> Date: Friday, 4 July, 2008, 3:42 PM

[Anand Shefali]

hi

i would like to know if the management has the right to cut off water & electricity to any particular flat whose owner has not paid one or two months dues?Is there any legal provision in the Society Act , which allows CGHS management do this? Thanx

 

On 7/4/08, P.J. THOMAS <tttho...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Ashish Mukherjee]

Dear Friends,
 
A very fruitful discussion on the topic but only from ONE point of view i.e. member does not pay the maintenance charges. What about the other side of the coin.
 
I know of one society in sector-9, where in a meeting; hike in maintenance charges was to be discussed and agreed upon. This was almost 6 months back and till date the minutes of this meeting have NOT been shared with the members. Forget the sharing of minutes till about 2 weeks back the minutes were not even written down. Repeated reminders for the meeting minutes have fallen on deaf ears.
 
Do you think the managing committee has the right to penalize anyone in any form (not opening gates, writing names on notice board etc.) when they have not done their act?
 
Should the managing committee not be penalized here by the members?
 
Looking forward to some more fruitful discussion on this.
 
 
Regards
Ashish

---

Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:56:32 +0530
From: zor...@gmail.com
To: Dwarka-r...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Dwarka Forum: Re: DF: Re: How to set right the defaulters?

<br

[Mahesh Gupta]

I agree with Mr. Ashish. There are cases where RWA MC feel themselves to be super powers and do what they like or their spouse likes or dislikes. There are also case where they have bungled with the membership/ monthly subscribtion but their is no authority who can penalise and court cases are a lengthy process. The RWA's don't come under consumer act. Once General secretary/ President is cought, the best way they feel is just resign and stop paying monthly dues.

[Chandan Bose]

Dear Mr. Mukherjee,
 
Let us clear points one by one.  Your point is also a matter of concern.  A member can always ask for the copy of the minutes, provided it is there in the constitution of the society and the member seeking the copy of the minutes is not a defaulter.
 
Regarding withdrawing of services the management is providing to its residents, like opening the gates, lifting of garbage, etc. etc., yes; the management has every right to do so.  But then that will not be an amicable solution.  I wanted to have an amicable solution as we will be staying in the same pocket as neighbours and not as enemies.
 
Anyway I thank all those who have shared their opinions in this regard.

Chandan Bose
Cell: 9968227724

---

From: ashish_m...@hotmail.com
To: dwarka-r...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Dwarka Forum: Re: DF: Re: How to set right the defaulters?

Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:51:26 +0530

</html

[REJIMON C K]

ashish, we agree the mgmnt must set example and come with transparency and accoutability. If our own RWA/CGHS not able to do,so what the point we accuse/allege govt officers and others?

It is fact some people who get into mgmnt once forget rest of their JANDHARMA. Some treats it as their own. IN this case also it is the majority who let this people to run like this, If the majority of the members are united and comes no one will dare to do so. So public at large need to be united and strengthen the common cause. If the mgmnt is not capable remove them using the AGM/SGM through resolution(if you have enough strength 1/5th ?).

Major problem as shared earlier due to lack of Legal support in RWA as RWA are registred under Socities  Act 1860.

Try to resolve it within the system with the support of rest. IF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE SYSTEM, IT IS CONSIDERED WE ARE THE PROBLEM.  SO BE PART OF THE SYSTEM TO CHANGE and show them how to run an RWA/CGHS.

thax, Rejimon

 

On 7/7/08, Ashish Mukherjee <ashish_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Ashish Mukherjee]

Dear Friends,
 

I fully understand, appreciate and endorse the views of Chandan, Mahesh and Reji.

 

The word society itself implies "an organized voluntary association of people" and it is expected all follow it in right spirit and letter. But, things start turning sour and bitter when actions mentioned by Mahesh become almost a feature. In such a situation the means and measures specified by Reji appear to be the best possible option.

 

Some of the penalties discussed have been in existence in our society almost since we moved in, hence, there is no way I cannot agree with them.

 

Now, if we start referring to memorandum/bye-laws even for mundane things as whether minutes are to be prepared or not; then the day is not far when people with dubious character may start taking advantage of the same. There are certain basic requirements which are never mentioned but have to be followed, to not only maintain transparency but also keep everyone on the same page (i.e. have common knowledge and understanding).

 

When we speak, we cannot determine how the person(s) at receiving end understand them? They may take it to mean entirely opposite of what was said. The moment they see the minutes and they find something contrary to their understanding in some way or other they will try to verify it. Also, it is an important means whereby it can be ensured only the transacted items are mentioned therein nothing additional or contrary to what was discussed. Hence, I feel the importance of minutes cannot be negated or diluted.

 

Regards

Ashish

 

---

Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:28:41 +0530
From: reji...@gmail.com

[Anuj Sharma]

Dear Sir,

We are residents of DDA Multistorey flats at SEcor 19 B. I do not know
about other DDA flats but in our brouchure it says possesion of flats
will be after the allotte becomes member of RWA below are the
contents of the brouchure and Affidavit given to DDA.

Extract from DDA Hosing Scheme 2006 Brochure Page 8

21. RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MAINTENANCE OF
COMMON PORTIONS AND COMMON SERVICES ETC.
Every successful applicant is required to become a member of the
Registered Agency/Association of Apartment Owners to be formed for the
purpose of maintenance of common portions and common services for
these housing pockets, in accordance with the provision of the law in
this behalf before the possession of the flat is handed over to him/
her.



Extract from ANNEXURE-F
UNDERTAKING
I, further undertake that we shall constitute and become, a member of
the Registered Agency prescribed under the said Regulations and abide
by the constitution, a model form of which I have read and understood.

I believe the same shuld apply to all DDA Flats as it would be their
Policy. But the solution is to sort out amicabily but if this
information helps DDA Flats RWA then nothing like this.

Regards

Anuj Sharma

> _________________________________________________________________
> Post free property ads on Yello Classifieds now!www.yello.inhttp://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=219

[Mahesh Gupta]

Dear Anuj,

 

This may not help b'cuz any 10-12 members can form a RWA and get themselves registered.

[Chandan Bose]

Thank you Mr. Anuj Sharma.  You have given a very vital point, i.e., extracts from the DDA Housing Scheme 2006 alongwith undertaking from the allottee.  I think it should be applicable to all other DDA Housing schemes also.  Others have also given good suggestions like withdrawing of services, putting pressure by forming a group, etc. etc.
Thanks once again

Chandan Bose
Cell: 9968227724

---

> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 04:22:50 -0700
> Subject: Dwarka Forum: Re: How to set right the defaulters?
> From: anu...@gmail.com
> To: Dwarka-r...@googlegroups.com

[activist]

In 2001, residents of DDA SFS pocket-1 sector-10 formed RWA and got it
registered with DDA. DDA, then, had a policy of registering only one
RWA per pocket & used to allot Regd Agency Number. This is in line
with what Mr. Anuj had quoted.

Later in 2007, DDA advised us to get our RWA registered under The
Society Act as well.

Mahesh Tak

On Jul 10, 8:56 am, "Mahesh Gupta" <mahesh.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Anuj,
>
> This may not help b'cuz any 10-12 members can form a RWA and get themselves
> registered.
>

[anil nayal]

What is the process to get registered RWA with DDA.

 

thanks

anil nayal

[activist]

Process is slightly lengthier. First step is framing of Bye Laws of
Accociation. Then call GBM & pass reslution to adopt these byelaws &
seek authorisation to approach DDA for registration. This resolution
must be signed by GBM owner attendees. Finally, a sketch of pocket
with a list of owner residents is to be enclosed.

You may refer to THE DELHI APARTMENT ACT, 1986 for details.

Mahesh Tak

On Jul 10, 12:35 pm, "anil nayal" <anilna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What is the process to get registered RWA with DDA.
>
> thanks
> anil nayal
>

[Anuj Sharma]

Maheshji,

We got our RWA registered from Registrar of Socities and have been
allotted a Regd number and now want to register it with DDA . Can you
guide us on this issue.

Regards

Anuj Sharma

> > > Mahesh Tak- Hide quoted text -

[activist]

Yes. I would.

There is another advantage of getting RWA registered with DDA. DDA
transfers share money of ALL residents of that pocket to registered
RWA after satisfying themselves that RWA is running its affairs as per
bye laws, conducting elections annually & getting its accounts audited
regularly.

Mahesh Tak

[REJIMON C K]

Ref my 3 July email.

I got  a reply from Registrar of Socities, Patparganj on the status of Registration of Socities Act 1860 is in review currently.

Lets hope the amendments would be  ready by 2009?

Thanks,

Rejimon

[Ajay Gupta]

Dear All

 

I was staying in SFS flats in Vasant Kunj. We had a similar problem. So the solution found out that, in case of any problem faced by that particular flat, the association would render no services and that resident has to fetch for himself. They should also be told that the security would not be responsible for ant theft in their house or car etc. Stop the cars of those flats and tell them to enter in the register. If they refuse then lodge an FIR. The same thing happened with a lady who was not paying. The association called the police and the problem was solved only when that lady had to pay all the arrears with interest.

--
Regards

Ajay Gupta
362, Arunachal Apartments,
Plot No.16, Sector-7, Dwarka, New Delhi - 110075
Tel : +911145542289, +919810355922, +919818269227
e-mail : ajaygu...@gmail.com, ajaygu...@rediffmail.com

[Ashish Mukherjee]

My earlier mails on the subject may please be referred to if context in the text below is not clear.
 
The solution to this problem can NEVER be found if looking from only one point of view; i.e. considering the RWA or the MC is right. The other side also has to be looked into, i.e. what if the RWA / MC is at fault. Voting out the body in this case is not the solution (as someone had pointed it out earlier); so we (me and other society members) are still looking for a viable/working solution. We are still exploring various options (voting out the existing body NOT being one of them) and would share in this forum once its been put in place. In the meantime we are open to suggestions from forum members as well.
 
Ashish

---

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 12:23:52 +0530
From: ajaygu...@gmail.com
To: Dwarka-r...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Dwarka Forum: Re: DF: Re: How to set right the defaulters?

[R. Dua]

I think Sushilji is right. Though I am ot a technical person on this matter but by gradually persuading the resident seems to be a good idea.