Relaunch Preview

[potluckgames]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/293287047/241561139?token=96505856

 

Take a look at the link.  I've tried to incorporate all suggestions, unless it seemed to create additional problems, but feel free to repeat any concerns.

 

Any feedback is appreciated.

 

I am still looking into adding large drawstring bags for the whole set.  The major issue is that I need to make sure they fit in the packages and I am waiting for a sample.  If they are even slightly too large for the standard package, then it would very expensive.

 

I could always add the bags as a separate item.  It's in the works.

[binarysunrise]

Looks great! Some suggestions:

1) When you show the luxury bags you should have (note: the dice shown are prototypes, and the real dice will be injected molds)

2) "In addition the monster bags will be a different color..." might make more sense if it was "monster bag" singular

3) Key die in the potion bag is grey??

4) Fire elemental should be Fire Elemental - in the description of $38,000

5) Epic Bosses - "Theses" should be "These"

6) Explain the Rules - 4th paragraph, "Player's take turns..." should be "Players take turns..."

7) further down, start of the paragraph, "All player's..." should be "All players..."

8) Dice may be traded... paragraph - "If player one agrees..." should be "If Player 1 agrees..." (to match the style)

Can't wait!

[binarysunrise]

:)

So if you donate $5 you get thanked in April, but if you donate $15, you have to wait until May for your thanks :)

(not sure if that's your humor or a mistake)

9) "Great Will Pleadge" should be "Pledge"

[potluckgames]

I should do it the other way around.

 

Did you notice that for $5 you get our thanks, but for $15 you get our SINCERE thanks?  I don't think anyone will notice, but it's funny to me.

[Michael R.]

I need to look at the site in detail but the two seconds I saw of it looked good.

In regards to the thanks, you should probably just make one "thanks" level for $1 and then encourage people to donate more if they want to support. I don't really see a reason to have separate levels. Also, does this mean there is no PnP level?

[potluckgames]

No PnP level, because the print and play version is already released for free.  Actually, it would probably cost more to do a PnP if you don't already have the dice.

[binarysunrise]

Lol. Should have saved these for one giant reply. Sorry all....

If you wanted to tweak the instructions jpg on the KS page:

1) Locked Chest - "Draw" is capitalized mid-sentence - should be "draw"

2) Reach - "beforing" should be "before"

3) "What monsters are the different monsters?" might read better as "What are the different monsters?"

4) Goblin - there's a formatting error (the three lines aren't all left justified)

I didn't look at the attached .pdf files yet.

[potluckgames]

Binarysunrise, you don't have a free game yet, do you?  I feel like you want a free game.

[binarysunrise]

No PnP level, because the print and play version is already released for free.  Actually, it would probably cost more to do a PnP if you don't already have the dice.

*Now* you tell us....

And yes, I did see the "sincere thanks" difference. I personally feel that you could have just 1 "thanks" level, and take off the "no bags" option, but I feel your humor and enthusiasm for the game might be better reflected by keeping those levels. I don't see how they would hurt, and possibly they will help :)

[potluckgames]

Well, this is considering how low I've gotten the price.  If you assemble the whole set, I kind of feel like you've earned your copy.

[binarysunrise]

Binarysunrise, you don't have a free game yet, do you?  I feel like you want a free game.

Trust me, it is much more fun to edit your KS page than it is to edit the stack of middle school short stories that I've got in front of me. And one student took a 5-8pg assignment and made it 38 pages in length!

Back to your game, though....

How is your planning on the other end of things?

- you've got a dice tower review set up?

- you're looking into a BGG giveaway?

- any other podcast/blogs/reviewers in the works?

- do you want us to wait until the KS is live to start talking it up on BGG and posting reviews and gameplay sessions? (if so...maybe you want to be specific about what dice we're playing with - or maybe it doesn't matter....) I think we should save our posts until it goes live to keep it "hot" :)

- you've got a plan to kicktraq from day 1

- are you able to get any ads up on kicktraq or BGG? 

- any internet presence like facebook or twitter that you could use?

I wish I could think of more things to do, but my marketing skills are limited at best. I feel there must be a large RPG or dungeons-and-dragons crowd that could be interested in a cross-over dice game....

This is my son's #1 game, so we're all pumped about KS round #2 :)

[griffinppatterson]

"Check out what's new!"

What is new? Short of the financial update, it's not exactly different. I mean, even in the description of the icons, there's the skull, which you said was nixed. Also, with the quote "The base game only contains six monster dice," the game sounds incomplete. The dragon is a crucial goal. I think if you're going to have the additional monsters as stretch goals, you should put a good spin on it. Call it an inspansion that will be added piece by piece and say that all copies are going to get this for free if the goal is met. That way people don't feel like they have to meet the stretch goal to get the full game and by reaching the goal, they get this badass extra stuff for free!

I just don't understand how the goals are still broken down in the same way if the molds are made multiple dice at a time. I thought you would get $4000 and be able to make 10 new unique dice. What happens when you only get the money to do 3 unique dice?

[griffinppatterson]

Also, it says 15 monster dice. How is this broken down from the six monster dice? Does that mean that each stretch goal adds more than one die to the mix?

Also, if 8 new dice cost $14,000 how big will the stretch goals be after the Dragon is unlocked?

And does the PnP contain the +1 items and will they be stretch goals?

[binarysunrise]

You bring up some good points.

 

"Check out what's new!"

What is new? Short of the financial update, it's not exactly different. I mean, even in the description of the icons, there's the skull, which you said was nixed.

I disagree. The "new" summary seems to hit a lot of major points. That being said, I do agree that some more changes *could* be made with the representation of the game and organization of the stretch goals.

 

Also, with the quote "The base game only contains six monster dice," the game sounds incomplete.

In addition, you mention earlier, under "What You Get" it states you get 15 monster dice.  This difference needs to be fixed.  Then, to address the "incomplete" feel of the game, I would reorganize things a bit.

1) First, don't use images in your examples that aren't in the base game (stick to images of Bat, Zombie, Skeleton, Golem, Witch, and Demon) and make sure you mention how though the game is fun to play at the base level, you hope to reach some stretch goals that are inspansions to make the game even crazier!

2) Maybe reorganize the stretch goals into "Inspansion Sets"? Especially if they are going to be produce that way. Set 1 could be "fun" monsters like Asp, Goblin, Wolf, Slime, and Set 2 could be challenging ones like Ghost, Fire, Spider, and Dragon. That might add to the "newness" of KS#2

3) If going this route, I'd reorganize the graphic of the monsters (and maybe tweak the rules page, temporarily) to show it as "Base Monsters," "Inspansion 1," "Inspansion 2," etc. Otherwise, as was pointed out, if you only raise the $ for the base monsters, it will appear as though the game is incomplete (from the KS description, and from the printed rules standpoint). Regardless of whether we reach the Dragon or not, this question will follow the KS campaign until we *actually* hit $40k...

4) Mention that the PnP and the gameplay videos are based upon a larger game including all the initial inspansions to make sure the gameplay worked consistently with a larger game (rather than make it look like you've "settled" for a smaller game at the base level).

A lot of my comments are about adjusting perception. You don't want backers to think that just because your goal is set low, and you have a base level of just a few monsters, that you have settled for producing a smaller game. We're all hoping for a much larger end result, and I think there's a bit of juggling to be done with expectations and perceptions. (I.e. if you set a goal at $60k, people would complain that it's too high. If you set the goal at $30k, people will complain that the game is too small. And even if you *know* you'll raise $50k-$60k, people will initially focus on the $30k level game and may ignore stretch goals that'll be definitely met)

[potluckgames]

Here's the main issue.  It will cost me at 60k to put all of this stuff into the game.  But I don't want to set the goal at 60k.  If I set the goal at 24k, I cannot afford to add anything until I hit about 60k. 

 

So I'm already picturing the game with all of these dice, but I need to have stretch goals.   My choice (which was not clear) was to include 15 monster dice with some duplicates.  As the stretch goals are met, duplicates will be removed and replaced with new monsters.

 

If someone has a better suggestion, I am open to it.  But the fact remains that I cannot start at 60k.  And if I start at 24k, I simply can't throw in any more features early on.

 

Suppose I start at 24k and explain that I can't add any stretch goals until we hit 60k.  This seems worse to me.

 

 

[potluckgames]

I could include varied equipment instead of duplicates.  Some armor is better than normal, some is worse.  I could even include 1-handed hammers, and 2-handed swords.  But I could only make about 10 changes like that, because there are only 19 equipment dice.

 

Basically, I can't add MORE dice yet, but I can remove and replace duplicates.  With this in mind, I thought the monsters would be the most appealing to backers.

[Michael R.]

The base game PnP hass been publicly released, correct? But what about the playtester expansion we've been using here?

I don't think having multiple pledge "thanks" levels is a problem, just curious about it. You may even want a $1 pledge level, just so anyone can contribute something. You could even make the reward delivery even more tongue in cheek by saying delivery will be "eventually" and that "What do you expect for a whole $1!?"

I actually really like the Paper Bags level. It's funny and it also actually gives people the option to pay for just the dice, if that's what the really want.

A marketing tip may be to say the base game has 6 monsters and that you'd love to add a monster expansion to everyone's orders if you hit the stretch goal!

I think it may be better to be honest and realistic with your backers, saying "$24k is the bare minimum we need to get the base game running. I hope and plan to get much more and want to add all my ideas into the final product." That way I know you want to have all these things, have planned them from the beginning, but are also realistic about what you can afford and when things become profitable to actually create. That's just my 2 cents though.

On to the KS page:

-Do you need to mention it's a relaunch? Some people may be worried about backing something that didn't work the first time.

-In the Stretch Goals section I'd change "game only includes six different monsters" to "game includes six different monsters" (i.e. nix the only)

-Same section, change "the monster set is complete" to "the monster mini-expansion is complete"

-Do you already have more stretch goals planned out?

-I see now that you already provide the PnP copy. Makes sense why you don't want to offer a PnP level. I'd suggest using this space to promote sharing i.e. Have your friends print off a copy and if you like it, order them one! etc

-In the FAQ where you explain the game more you mention "Fame points". This is the first time I've heard the term, I always thought it was just generic "Fame".

I know this might seem odd, but I like the idea of "crappy" spear and "awesome" spear. May make trades more interesting though it could cause some balance issues. My friends already have preferred weapons so it'd be interesting to see how this played out.

I really like that you've added some "premium" reward tiers. My only question is why does the level with all the expansions cost $300? If the current game costs for $50, I imagine the next three will cost about the same or less. Which I calculate to $200. Just curious if there is a reason for this. I would be interested in pledging more for future expansions but $300 is a lot and I can't quite justify it unless I know what it's going towards...

[matias.korman]

Hello, there.

Just a few suggestions

1-Make sure that the PnP is clearly visible. Now it is somehow hidden. 

2-I would not start with "what's new" but with "what is this game about"

3-What you get does not include a rulebook?

4-I thought that the hero dice had been improved (black with green sqares inside). the image in teh Ks is the old one

5-I do not like that there are 2 thanking pledge levels. I always thought that thank should start at 1$

6-can't you call "BAGS ONLY" to level 30$ pledge?

7-level 40 actually costs that much? 40$ for one dice of each, and 49$ for the game seems a small difference

8-Who will pledge for the "paper bags" level? it is only 3$ difference. I would rather remove it if you cannot make it cheaper

9-Do we need pledge levels for 2,3,4, and 5 copies of the game? Why not simply make each extra copy costs 45$ (shipping included) as an add on

10-500$ pledge level says "luxAry bag". Also, I think that "goodwill" is written together, not sepparate

[potluckgames]

I think I will probably remove the "one of each die" level.  It made more sense when the game cost $70.

 

I don't understand what you mean by the "bags only" comment (point 6)

 

Instructions will be included.  I'll add that to the list.

 

This is helpful.  It's very difficult to catch everything with so much info on the main page.

[potluckgames]

The hero level dice were not changed.  The experience trackers were changed, but they're not included yet.

[matias.korman]

My comment 6 was the following:

Many pledge levels have a summary in caps (THE GAME, GOOD WILL, PLAYTESTER PACKAGE, etc..). Can you add the same to the 30$ pledge? Something that says "BAGS ONLY"?

[potluckgames]

Okay, answers to marketing questions.

 

BGG featured contests are too expensive, but I'm going to try to start something in the forums.

 

Dice Tower - Tom Vasel is difficult to communicate with.  He has received the game and assures me that the 16th is "doable" but if I ask any questions he just repeats himself.  I assume he has a ton of e-mails to respond to. 

 

I think it's a good idea to hold off your personal promotions (facebook, friends, blogs, etc.) until after the game has launched.

 

We'll Kicktraq it from day 1.

 

If you know of a specific podcast, blog, or reviewer go ahead and suggest it, but we can only look into free promotions right now.

[matias.korman]

Ouch, 

BGG contests are very good to get the hype going..a pity they are expensive

As for the Dice tower...I think it will really help. Is there a particular reason why you want to launch the 16th? Maybe we can wait until we get DT's review?

[potluckgames]

If the review isn't ready, it would probably be better to wait.  But he's told me more than once that he can do it on the 16th. (It wouldn't do much good for the review to come out before the project has begun, so that's the best date in my opinion.)

[potluckgames]

Just found out BGG does not allow promotional contests in the forums.

 

I would love to run a contest to give away a few more games, but I just don't have access to a large enough base of people.

[binarysunrise]

Hey look....Tonight I saved my comments into a single, large email :)

 

Here's the main issue.  It will cost me at 60k to put all of this stuff into the game.  But I don't want to set the goal at 60k.  If I set the goal at 24k, I cannot afford to add anything until I hit about 60k.

 

Right. *We* understand this. I'm just trying to think of a way to present the KS so that new backers won't think that if this game only raises $24k that they'll be getting *part* of a game. 

So you have to adjust the presentation of the game to meet their expectations. Namely, that at $24k they'll have a *complete* game. Regardless if you *know* you'll raise $40k (or $60k), they will want to know they are getting a complete, playable game at $24k. (use "the game includes" and not "the game *only* includes," show pics of just the base dice - not the ones they "might" not get). So stress that this is the base game, which comes with 15 monster dice, of 6 different varieties of monsters. And with "over-funding," stretch goals will allow a few "inspansions" to the game, where duplicate monster dice are replaced with new, unique creatures, greatly enhancing the re-playability of the game.

You had two options here.

1) Marketing this as a big $40k game. Which many might think would be too challenging a goal to meet, and there wouldn't be any stretch goals, or bonuses along the way, hoping to reach that final $40k goal before closing. Momentum, and optimism, might be hard to maintain.

2) Marketing this as a smaller $24k game. (while secretly having it be a big $40k game). Many would find this goal do-able, and stretch goals and bonuses would provide momentum and enthusiasm. Over-funding would be quite likely.

Of these two approaches, I think you chose the one that would end up raising the most money. (Odd...since it is the same game). But I think you have to adjust your marketing to "pretend" it's a $24k game with great potential to be a larger game. Otherwise backers will think they'll get a partial game.

That being said....have you decided on what you'll do with these potential outcomes?

A) The game does not bring in $24k - would you consider a 3rd launch? Research more? Take a step back?

B) The game brings in less than $30k - As a "successfully" funded project....would you have to make a smaller, base version of Dungeon Dice (and hopefully expand upon it later?)

C) The game brings in $40k and all stretch goals are met - You sometimes mention the $60k figure - would you be able to afford to produce/deliver everything in the stretch goals with only $40k?

Just some thoughts...

So I'm already picturing the game with all of these dice, but I need to have stretch goals.   My choice (which was not clear) was to include 15 monster dice with some duplicates.  As the stretch goals are met, duplicates will be removed and replaced with new monsters.

And I would like the game contents to be a bit more specific, especially geared towards the contents of the $24k game (i.e. 15 monster dice - including 6 unique monsters.....19 equipment dice - including X unique dice....). And then, as you said, highlight how these duplicate dice will be replaced with new, unique dice, adding re-playability and greater challengers, variability, etc.

And finally...someone stated:

I really like that you've added some "premium" reward tiers. My only question is why does the level with all the expansions cost $300?

I also wondered this, and it might need a bit more of an explanation if it indeed costs $300. You could find out what you think retail expansions would cost, and change this level to $100? Stating they'd get expansions before others..(especially since the current level asks for $255 more....and over 2 years of waiting). And I'd imagine you could have more than just 3 slots, as the overage past $45 is just interest-free money to use for developing.....   

And any chance of more "Design a Die" categories? I'm calling "Not It" on this one, but hopefully there are a few of us here with $ that want to add another monster to everyone's games :)

And finally (again)....would the "Bag Upgrade" work better as an "add on" category, rather than a pledge level? Someone might think for $30 they get the game *and* better bags, or get confused by the limit of 30 (and the statement that everyone can add it). Or maybe if it is a level, have it be renamed LUXURY BAGS ONLY.

  

[kc2dpt]

I was a backer in a KS that had a contest right in the KS updates.

[binarysunrise]

I was a backer in a KS that had a contest right in the KS updates.

But it's not so much about the contest, but about having a contest that can draw in new backers to the KS. On BGG, there is a huge audience of gamers, and a sponsored contest there would make thousands of people look at the game, and many of which will become potential backers (especially when they lose the contest, or become interested enough by perusing the KS page in search of answers to the questions).  The most recent Eminent Domain contest had almost 4,000 entries.

While putting a contest on the KS page (if that is indeed allowed), reaches people who have already found the KS page, and many (all) would have been backers already. It'd be fun, but would not fill the marketing need....

I didn't know that BGG charged for the contests, but it'd be interesting to guesstimate how many backers might be gained from the marketing....and see how those sales measured up to the fees.

[potluckgames]

How is an add-on different than what I've done?

 

There is a problem with the stretch goal dice already pictured everywhere and used in the videos. But it's really just a perception issue. 

 

 

[potluckgames]

Take a look.

 

http://files.boardgamegeek.com/mediakit/BGGMarketing.pdf

 

It sounds great.  But I'm already way over budget. 

[binarysunrise]

Hm. The advertising plan (just looking at a month's worth) and the contest seem great, and it's a shame you can't swing the funds for it.

I noticed that there is an advertising credit for giving BGG promo items.  Could you contact them to see if you could contract sending them promo items *later* for advertising *now*? (doubtful...I know). But if you could count on getting one $500 backer for the promo dice (and relabeled the stretch goal as *promo* and not *kickstarter exclusive*), you could send off a bunch of extra dice to BGG's shop in exchange for advertising....

As for the $1200 contest fee. It doesn't seem horrendous if you had a marketing budget. Reading through the material I forgot to think about how all the contest activity would send Dungeon Dice's BGG page to the top of their "hotness" list, increasing visibility of the project (sort of a dual-pronged approach of adding more direct views of the KS page, and more indirect views). But we get that you don't have the funds for this.

Ah well. Thanks for sharing the info.

[casu.gianluca]

Okay some thoughts:

- We are turning around the issue for too long, let's kick the elephant outside the living room. Write "The base set will be 15 Monster DICE" and write clearly which one you duplicate. there is no shame in a duplicate skeletons.

Easiest way will be a complete list of dice present in the base set (Ie 3x Skeleton, 2xshields etc).

- Specify that the stretch goals replaces the duplicate dice and phrase it like this "Don't you think that just skeletons are a bore? me too, hit this stretch goal and get some asp instead"

- Do not deprecate you PnP it might be expensive to print if you do not have your dice, but it has a value. give it with the 1$ and 5$ dollar and write "Here you go, now you just have to order 50$ of dice to go with. What? The game costs just 45 and you have to do nothing else? Arent you lucky?"

- I'm a bit confused about the three level to getting the game. I can understand the early bird, but just 3$ between having and not having the bags, when you have a specific 30$ goal makes no sense to me.

Are those bags expensive or not?

[Michael]

My understanding is that there are two types of bags.  The $3 gets you basic run-of-the-mill bags.  The $30 add-on gets you the custom, hand-made "LUXARY [sic]" bags.

[binarysunrise]

Just read your update. Lowering it down to a 3-player game seems like the perfect compromise! And bringing it back to 4-player seems like a great $40k stretch goal. Will you pass along your new KS rough-draft? Or are you sick of our comments, suggestions, and corrections? :)

[potluckgames]

No, I appreciate the feedback.  I'll send a link later today.  I can still change anything up until the launch. 

 

No word from Dice Tower.  At this point, I have to assume it's not happening.  Frustrating.

 

I intend to extend the project to 40 days.  This way, if we reach our goal early on, I can afford to schedule a BGG contest midway through the campaign.  It's not the best, but I don't have a lot of options.

[potluckgames]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/293287047/241561139?token=96505856

 

Here's the new link.

 

I am still fixing the rules to reflect the smaller version of the game.  And I will update the Print and Play as well when the rules are finished.

 

 

[binarysunrise]

Looks great! And hopefully you'll just need those simpler rules for a few weeks, and then you can go back to the full rules :)

A few comments :)

1) Love the pledge levels - could you put Dungeon Dice in all caps in the "GAME WITH LUXURY BAGS" level?

2) Under the "2 copies of DUNGEON DICE" level - maybe just state "These games include the basic colored dice bags" so a) you don't think it comes with the deluxe ones, and b) you don't think they come with *only* 5 bags

3) Are your figures still right for the production costs? It might make more sense to show the costs for a 3-person game with the starting dice? Otherwise I get concerned that this project is costing $60k, and you're only raising $16k. (yes...I know you're raising much, much more than that).

4) Should the equipment and one-use dice contents list the # of unique dice?

5) Still curious about the "grey" key icon on the potion die. I assume it'll be a solid red die?

6) I guess it's ok that the asp and spider are shown in examples. We'll get there :)

7) The Dragon - "dragon" should be "Dragon" (in 2 places)

8) Instructions - Locked Chest - "Draw" should be "draw"

And as you're still thinking about packaging - I've seen dice bag with a cool ogre face on it (I had originally considered getting it for the monster bag for my PnP) - there are some cool things you can do with bags. You could research this over the next month and add it as an add-on purchase. I also thought you could make a 4th or 5th person set of dice as an add-on as well, but that gets a bit tricky if we hit $40k.  Please also think about a promo die that you could use here, *and* later barter for ad credit at BGG (to help you sell the rest of the 2k of games) - as it is written now, the backer-created dice would not be applicable as it is "kickstarter-only"

Congrats, looks great! Fingers crossed!

[potluckgames]

Oh, I did fix the problems you mentioned on some of the artwork (the text alignment on the Goblin for example), but I forgot to upload the new images.

[potluckgames]

The one-use dice in this run will be 14mm, the equipment 16mm and the monsters 18mm.  This means that the keys may be a different color without slowing down cleanup.  I want them to stand out a little.

 

One other comment that someone mentioned earlier - the extra dice that were playtested here will be included in an expansion not the base game.  We may also have to include parts of that expansion as stretch goal overflow, so it was necessary to plan out.

[potluckgames]

I would also like to award a free game to Binarysunrise, whose eye for consistency is almost certainly undervalued by middle schoolers. 

 

This is for activity in the playtesting group since the beginning.

[binarysunrise]

How awesome! Thanks a million! Those of us with free games have to remember to back at the "thank you" level so that we can continue to chat it up on the KS page and help build momentum. (or grab an early bird level for a gift!)

Are we still on for tomorrow? Any ETA for launch? :)

[potluckgames]

9:00 AM Pacific time.

 

If we get all the old backers, it should add a lot of momentum.

 

 

[griffinppatterson]

Would definitely suggest a late day 1 update or early day 2 update. You're having an excellent first day and I'm sure everyone would love to hear from you (with your appreciation). If day two is anything like it has been today, This thing is going to be funded and fast. Hopefully you have some fun updates planned for the campaign to keep the energy up.

[griffinppatterson]

Also, you should try and get Dungeon Dice onto the Hotness on Board Game Geek by having everyone thumb the BGG page.

[Michael R.]

Hell yeah, we made it on the http://www.kicktraq.com/hotlist/ (Kicktraq hotlist) at #18. Check it out and share with your friends!

[matias.korman]

A couple suggestions to make it to the hotness:

1-Add a new cool image to BGG. Make an update on the (new) kickstarter so that we can all thumb it

2-Make a post in the crowdfunding announcements threade (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/746926/crowdfunding-announcements-thread)

3-Get 900k$$ and lots of overrfunding goals!!!

[potluckgames]

I already have made an update on the new project with a link to BGG.  Unfortunately, I don't have any new artwork at the moment.

[griffinppatterson]

Hopefully Dungeon dice can hit the hotness. Is a good way to have people push things up on rankings. Another free thing to do is get someone to write a review on reddit and have people upvote it (I'm sure someone here can use their PnP for a review. I would, but I'm not a Reddit-er). Also, have you looked into GeekDad? He does "favourite Kickstarters" and a lot of reviews that often get onto many kickstarter based blogs.

[griffinppatterson]

Stretch goal unlocked Update? Not everyone checks the funding level every day like we do. Let them know the good news! (Plus, I'm a bit of an update whore. What can I say? I like emails.)

[binarysunrise]

I've made math mistakes already this week (it's been a looong week at school).

That being said, I only count 14 unique monsters (plus another 2 from the create-a-die pledge). So....if we hit $40k, one monster die is going to be duplicated? (was that the plan?)

[griffinppatterson]

The mimic? Or the Unguarded Treasure Die?

[potluckgames]

You know, I don't think I've mentioned the unguarded treasure die.

[binarysunrise]

Doh! I saw the mimic was going to be in a later expansion set :( but I had forgotten about the unguarded treasure. Figure I'd ask the question before someone else did :)

As an unrelated follow up question - Did KS allow you to choose the day/time of the launch? And how long did it take for approval from KS when you submitted it? (or was it less time...since it was a relaunch?)

Thanks!

[potluckgames]

Yes, they let you pick.  It takes a couple of business days to be approved.

[griffinppatterson]

Finally got a look at the 2-player PnP and I realised that it's missing the Experience counters.

Additionally, I posted images for reference cards that I whipped up on photoshop. It has all the symbols used in the base game, but could not fit the Fear and Petrify symbols used on the Cockatrice. Let me know what you think. If you have any other approaches in mind to fit more symbols, I'll give it a whirl.

[binarysunrise]

I like the idea of making a reference card(s) as a stretch goal.That'll help at the retail level.

However, I would want the name of the dice/symbol being included (Whip, hammer, etc.). 

That's what we use during gameplay.

[griffinppatterson]

Did I miss somewhere why there were only 20 luxury bag pledges available? I feel like it would be very popular. I know a major goal in KS is to get people to increase their pledge and the add ons are doing marvellously. Just trying to think of different tiers that could be added as well and saw the luxury bit being sold out at 20.

[binarysunrise]

And not to add more costs to the game, but have you ever thought about having a green bag, that would hold all the start up dice? (that's what we use in our PnP version)

[potluckgames]

A green bag is already included.

[binarysunrise]

Huh. So it is. Not sure what I was thinking :)

For the rest of you....let's get some discussion going at BGG

[potluckgames]

I'll make another pop goal to get on the Hotness radar.  We've got enough backers that it's very possible.

[griffinppatterson]

Might be worthwhile to announce new stretch goals once the dragon is unlocked. Considering the fact that you can effectively make a 4 player game by using add-ons, the drive to get that 4 player expansion might not be as great as getting the dragon unlocked. Having some new solid stretch goals will really give the campaign a fresh read. Additionally, an infographic with the addons might be quite good for an update as well, just to remind people that they are there. Call it Elorim's General Store, or something with just the picture, title and price (int price in brackets).

I must say, that this campaign is going REALLY well. I'm so excited for how far it can go. You deserve to make a nice chunk of profit from this game.

[potluckgames]

What is "int price"?

[griffinppatterson]

International, Sorry. abbreviating does not always save time. I guess it should have been intl

[binarysunrise]

There is a discussion thread on BGG about copyright issues you may have with this game, and the previous "Dungeon Dice" game. It might be nice if you stopped by there and explained your research/thoughts about your game. I posted:

Ok, I found this article about how someone copyrighted and trademarked their board game, and the problems they ran into:

http://playmusicmania.com/trademarking-and-copyrighting-a-board-game

One of their major problems was that someone had trademarked the board game's name they were planning on using.

I searched the US Trademark Database at

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4805:dukv6h.1.1

And only found 3 dead listings for "Dungeon Dice" in "Dungeon Dice Monsters." Hopefully my search was correct.

According to the previous article, they eventually decided upon a name that had prior trademarks that were dead, and so they figured it was safe to proceed. And they didn't bother spending the $ to seize the trademark, deciding to go with their usage date to secure the name.

[binarysunrise]

What about offering (either as a stretch goal, or a paid add-on), a sample of your expansions? I'm sure people would pay for them, and it might make them keep your expansions on their radar to buy later. Things I thought of:

1) The Mimic - to give them a taste of the Dungeons Expansion set. You'd end up having 2 mimics in your bag eventually, which is probably fine (especially if you're supposed to pull it out as a trophy...)

2) A Promo Epic Boss - to give them a taste of the Epic Bosses Set. I'd make this a paid add-on to cover most of the costs of producing a single over-sized die. Not sure of how exactly the game mechanics work for this, but it might need to be paired with a normal monster-sized dice that indicates to roll the over-sized die.

3) .....couldn't think of what could be a sample of the Classes & Races set.

[griffinppatterson]

So what's with the luxury bags, anyway? Are they handmade? At first it was a pretty strict limited number, but you've done such a good job at adding more at clutch moments. I like it, but I am genuine curious if it's just a genius marketing strategy.

[matias.korman]

Wow! Today I woke up and saw the BGG contest! Nicely done!

Ithinkthat the timing is great. I am off to answer the contest....lets see if it will drag manynew backers to the game! :)

[binarysunrise]

So, did everyone put in their $9 to keep this joint open? :)

[griffinppatterson]

I didn't... :( I really can't afford it. I've had to pull out of a lot of KS recently since I'm moving to an unfurnished house in the next couple weeks and need to save a couple grand to get it all set up (a couple grand that I dont have).

[casu.gianluca]

I was under the impression that if I backed the game I was authomatically addedd to the group for the next round. Was I wrong?

[potluckgames]

We can continue this group, but the full expansions will be handled through a new group.  The new group will be composed of those who paid for the add-on.

[casu.gianluca]

I'm sorry mate, but this sounds a bit strange to me. We created this group to help the relaunch because we were the one that sustained the first KS. We tested, retested the game, found new dice together and planned the marketing and evolution of the campaign.

Now I sustained the campaign with 100 dollars or something more and I have to add yet still 9$ to continue work on the expansion? It does not seem logical to me.

Usually if you get a higher support the lower perks are part of the reward (IE you buy the game you get the PDF edition with). I agree it is not always the case, but it seems just right to me.

Now, it was a fantastic campaign and I honestly would never expect us to reach so far ( the amount of dice we unlocked is simply AMAZING) and I appreciate your effort to always do the extra mile to arrange the budget in a way that we could always have the best possible option.

It is not gluttony here. I just feel that I and all the people of the group earned the right to work on the expansion as well.

Does anyone agree with me?

[matias.korman]

I was writing a long post when I saw Gianluca writing exactly the same. I agree completely with him. In fact, I checked the old kickstarter, and in update 14 you invite us all playtesters. What is that if not the same as the new pledge? 

As said before, this is not greed. I thought that our time spent in making the PnP, testing, and giving advice would at least account for that. 

[griffinppatterson]

Meh, I can see both sides. Of course I'd be happy if I'd get the opportunity to work on the DD expansions with you guys, but we didn't pay. It was pretty clear and I know it sucks to think that we were invited to help playtest after the first KS for free, but now it costs a bit of money. That's just how life works. If only the $9 backers/addons are invited to the playtesting group, I understand. We'll all miss being a part of it though (I just can't afford to put any more money in. I told myself I couldn't afford to back Dungeon Dice and I still blew $73 despite the free game giveaway.)

[matias.korman]

The thing is, while being a PT I made the game, showed it to some friends, mentioned on BGG, and in general gave some buzz to the game, eventually bringing some backers. Do I ask for some physical reward for that? no, I just ask to keep my status as it is. 

This is a little something that costs nothing to PLG, and is beneficial for both of us

[potluckgames]

@casu - I agree with you.  My only concern was that I did not offer this during the campaign, and many of you may have already paid the $9.  I didn't want to offend those of you who HAD paid.  So I wasn't sure how to handle it at that point.

 

Why don't we just invite all of you, and anyone from this group who wants a refund can contact me through Kickstarter.

 

 

[Michael R.]

I paid the $9 to join up with the next group and I have no complaints in having everyone here invited for free. I know many good ideas have already come out of this group and into the game so it would be a shame to lose some of our top contributors over a few dollars. I viewed my contribution as exactly that and not as a $9 ticket into the new groups. Just my thoughts though.

[Michael]

I would very much like to be in the future rounds of play testing.  I didn't add $9 to my pledge for the play test because I decided I was already spending more than I really should already. (You successfully moved me to add $81 to my $45 early-bird reward.)  I knew this meant that I might not be included in the future play testing, and I understood your desire to use this add-on to raise money for developing the game.  So I'm fine if we don't all get invited.

That being said, I'd like to think I added some benefit as a play tester.  I didn't necessarily put a lot of "fresh" material on this site, but I was able to comment positively on my play experiences as a play tester on kickstarter, boardgamegeek, and reddit throughout the kickstarter campaign.  If you were to go ahead and invite all of us here to the next PT, I for one would be very grateful (as would the people who get to play with me -- it was actually one of them who talked me into buying 6 play mats ;) -- I was perfectly happy to just print my own on card stock).