Free Game Give Aways

[potluckgames]

The following names will receive a free copy of Dungeon Dice.  The following individuals have contributed to the game in one way or another.  Mostly these are for tossing out multiple good ideas.  You will each receive a free game with all stretch goals included, shipped free to your home. 

 

 

Griffinppatterson

seb.borchert

Devaliant

Kc2dpt

[matias.korman]

Wow! Very generous of you!

In any case, do not start giving away the game to everyone...or we will run out of backers when we kickstart again!! :p

[binarysunrise]

Very cool.

[potluckgames]

I know.  Honestly, I would want to give more away.  I could easily do a referal program.  If you get five people to back the project, you get yours for free.  Don't quote me on that.

[seb.borchert]

Thanks a lot! I think I will be on the backers list for an additional game ;-)

[Devaliant]

Seconded, I think I will bring one of mine to a gaming convention in my town and post it as a tournament prize. Is there any way you could include some kind of simple business cards with the Potluck website? If not, mayhaps you would bother slapping together an A3 size poster that you think would represent yourself and the game in a suitable manner? I can print it myself.

If not I´ll come up with something clever :)
Oh and look at Outland.no if you want to find a retailer for Norwegian market, they are a small chain located in many cities, they often support such projects. Not affiliated with only specific publishers afaik.

I´m back from Thailand this Sunday and will continue helping if I can.
If you want a rules translation into Norwegian I´m happy to do so.

Dev

[griffinppatterson]

Sick! I really can't wait for this KS to go back up. I haven't had a good one to follow since this one was cancelled.

[kc2dpt]

Thank you. That's very generous. It's been my pleasure to help out. :)

[griffinppatterson]

Love the idea for the new giveaway. Should help people who view projects on day one to at least get their foot in the door? Have you thought about doing one on the BoardGameGeek Sponsored Promotions bit? It's usually like 5-10 free games, and every single one gets 3000-5000 entries. Up to you, but it's good, cheap exposure.

[potluckgames]

I contacted them earlier today.  I'm not sure what it takes to get in the line-up. 

[matias.korman]

Hei, I love the idea as well. Other suggestions for the project:

-Make the target goal as low as possible. People will not jump in until it is funded

-Make a contest on BGG (as said before)

-Buy a banner on BGG if possible

-get a paid review from the Dice Tower

-Add some promo swag. Not exclusive, but either promo (available afterwards on BGG) or non-functional (i.e., nicer bags)

-You already have a PnP, but can we make one that is 2 pages at most? I did the current one because I had spare blank dice, but this version takes a LOT of time and quite a lot of money (how much 40 blank dice cost?). Maybe make it for 2-3 players and tell them that if they want more they can also print the full version

-Do not forget international backers. Maybe you can make a "Dice only" cheaper to mail pledge level?

[griffinppatterson]

As nice as BGG banners are, if I remember correctly, they are quite expensive. Same with Kicktraq. That said, they are quite effective.

[potluckgames]

I will give a preview of the relaunch to this playtesting group.  Should be done within a week. 

 

Let me know you thoughts.  Let's say I have a reward level at $45 which is labeled as only for backers of the original project.  In addition, I would have an early-bird special for $45 dollars with a limited number.  It would then go to 46 dollars then 47 and cap off at $49.

 

Ideally, this will create a sense of urgency, without making losing anyone who is sad that they missed out.  (It also rewards you guys).  Do you think this will turn anyone off?  Attract more than it turns off?

 

International shipping has been reduced to $7.

 

There is no longer a reward level that does NOT include stretch goals.  This is a given.  However, I had a few complaints that the stretch goals made it feel like I was holding back the full game.  If I just offer all of those dice in the initial package, then I cannot afford to include any more stretch goals.  I would appreciate any opinions on this.

 

I think the stretch goals will draw more people than I lose, but that I lost a LOT of people because the base game did not have access to the stretch goals.

 

I considered increasing the goal to about 60k to include all the dice up front.  I think I am MORE LIKELY to get to 60k if I ask for 40k, and I will just have the stretch goals expand to 60k.

 

I am hoping that this group can give me some feedback, as it is difficult to put myself in the shoes of the consumer.  I don't want to resort to a gimmick to build excitement and have it actually just turn people away.

[matias.korman]

I would rather have a smaller game with a lot of stretch rewards than the whole game originally. I don't know how many complaints you got, but since it is a dice game (and dice molds are expensive) it seems reasonable to add a die when overfunding. Maybe you could add a detailed cost of the production?

As another way of helping people pledge is by making some add-ons. For example, allow people to add 1$ to add an extra die, or 25$ for a playmat, or 5$ for <insert idea here>. T-shirts? posters? etc

Such a low international shipping is great....but are you sure you can afford it?

Another important thing for backers is to have the certainty that you will deliver. Can you provide a clear estimate of the time to produce the game? Show the design of the box? Dimensions? Is everything ready and you are just waiting for the money to print? Those things make me (again as a backer) trust you more, hence you are more likely to receive my money

[griffinppatterson]

Your campaign is a very difficult one. Dice games are expensive (as you noted). But you can't ask for 60K for a tabletop game. I don't think any game actually has. I don't think that you having the stretch goals as they were is too bad. The main thing is to be as translucent as possible. Explain that the stretch goals are set at the level they are simply because of the cost of setting up the plates for the new dice.

As for the pledge levels, I really dislike the incremented tier levels. It's kickstarter. Early bird is good, I like that, but having an incremental step of a few bucks is just annoying to me. I personally get turned off from them, but I do like the early bird idea. That combined with the contest will get people in early at the level you want them at. I also agree that the no stretch-goal pledge level is great. Let us have a look at the project a bit before it goes live so we can see what you've come up with.

[potluckgames]

I am already producing too many physical items to include physical add-ons.  For example, if I sell $2000 worth of t-shirts, I will reach my goal earlier, which is bad, because a large percentage of that money goes to t-shirts instead of dice.  I would need to increase my goal by over a thousand dollars, which doesn't even out to me.  I want the goal as low as possible.

[griffinppatterson]

I never understood that. People are trying to produce games. Not t-shirts. Just seems counter intuitive to me. The only add-ons worthwhile are extra copies of the game :P

[matias.korman]

Well, the difference is that making T-shirts is waay cheaper. It costs you 10-15$ to make one (depending on amount), but you can sell them for 25$. Do boardgames have the same profit? Also, you can make very small print runs without much added cost. 

Some people that like the game would like to pledge a bit more (to hep with the project). In that sense, any excuse to add money is good. For those that do not like extras...well, they will not get them, and that is fine. What I do not see is someone saying "oh, this KS project sells T-shirts, and for that reason I will not back"

[potluckgames]

Even if I sold the t-shirts for $30, I would actually be taking a hit on each one unless I increased my base goal.  I don't mean to argue.  I like the idea.  But I don't have a lot of room to maneuver.  I'm already dealing with numbers that are a little too high.

[Michael R.]

I won't comment on extra non-game swag but I do really like the idea of a playmat or bags. This is another little perk I can get from kickstarter that you can overcharge for (since you'll be buying in bulk) and I don't mind paying the money. It also lets you put a bit more of your branding in places and gives me a reason to give you more money. Obviously you should offer the base game (+ stretch goals) as cheap as possible with the idea that overfunding will then pay for the new dice but I think its a mistake to just offer that level and then duplicate copies. You may also want to think about adding a "Digital Only" Tier for $1-$5 that provides access to the (presumably expanded) P-n-P. This generates more money to be put toward dice and doesn't cost you anything. Another idea is Kickstarter only Promo dice. That is a die (or a few) which only backers can get. You won't produce it after the initial run of the game. Sometimes a dice (or expansion or two) is the final tipping point for me backing a game since I know I can't get it later. People have various amounts they are willing to spend so a sliding scale is helpful ($5 Digital, $45 Base, $60 Base + Bag) etc. I've also seen other projects have higher funding tiers that corresponded to designer access ("Make you own hero class! $150) to early access to new expansion prototypes ("Beta Tester"). This last one could be a way to get new people on the forums and a mechanism by which you could pre-sell your first expansion. Just a thought.

[binarysunrise]

So....what more can we do to help with this? We've helped with editing your rulebook, playtesting some of the features, suggested ideas.

What more can be done in the next few weeks to help with the launch?

(Obviously, post launch, we can help with publicity, reviews, blogging, facebooking, etc.)

As for the different pledge levels, I think:

$5 digital

$45 Early Bird/Early Backer

$48 Base game

$60 Base & Bag

$80 (some premium)

Design your own, $150 levels, wouldn't work, as it costs *so* much per dice. You could make a "Custom Dice" level and just have it the cost of what designing a die would cost....

Don't do shirts, or other add-ons, if there isn't a huge profit margin. If it's break-even, it'll throw off your stretch goal figures, and your time might be worth better tweaking the game....

[potluckgames]

The main thing we need is publicity.  We received 200 backers very quickly when the game was priced much higher.  The problem was that we lost visibility on the Kickstarter page and funding suddenly stopped.  We have a lot more on our side this time, but anything helps. 

 

Maybe I could do a referral program.  If 10 people say you referred them, you get your copy for free?

[Michael R.]

Some Promo ideas:

-KS Backer Exclusive Die (maybe some small tweaks to level die or something, probably too expensive)

-Playmat (places to put your equipped die, trophies, level die, spent level die, one use, etc and a nice place to roll)

-Metal Tin (nice place to store all your bags + playmats) or Box

-Name in the Game Rulebook as a "Producer" or what have you.

-Dice made of different material? (maybe some custom level dice, I was thinking of the Cthullu dice)

-Beta Version of Expansion (ship them some mock-ups?)

-Play with the creator! (exclusive google hangout, skype, whatever where people can play the game with you online)

-Name a monster (or class or whatever) so instead of just fighting "Goblin" you're fighting "Bob the one-legged drunkard hobgoblin midget ninja"

-I'll think of more...

As for referrals, I don't know that I could refer 10 people but I'm curious what everyone else thinks. Also, it seems like it'd be hard to track that via KS. I'd definitely recommend getting on Kicktraq day one. 

[potluckgames]

Is there a fee for Kicktraq?  From what I've looked into they have a couple free services and they aren't running ads yet.

[griffinppatterson]

Games get put onto Kicktraq automatically. I usually check the new tabletop games everyday. They do run banners quite frequently. Another way to get publicity through them is articles. Have someone write an article about your game and send the link to kicktraq. It'll be on their front page for a few days at least. Another free service they run is Day 1 Kicktraq, but I have no idea what that entails.

As for referring a friend, has that ever worked? I always wonder how exactly it works without being nitpicky. I backed a project once that did it and I never wanted to tell people "back this project and tell people I sent you so that my game is free." If anyone knows of any really successful referral programs, let me know, I just don't know of any...

[binarysunrise]

I think Day 1 Kicktraq ensures that the KS is tracked from Day 1. I don't think there is anything automatic about Kicktraq - the organizer of the kickstarter has to put it on Kicktraq.

We want to help others find you so we can all be excited to watch your campaign reach and exceed its goals! That said, we can do a much better job of helping you if you add your project to Kicktraq as soon as it goes live. We make it super-simple, all you need to do is visit the Kicktraq Homepage and paste your Kickstarter URL in the search bar. What does it get you? More data = more accurate analysis. It's that simple!

Those of you who add your projects to Kicktraq on Day-1 will be automatically added to our "Day-1 Projects" page at the very top of the category navigation.

And while I would love the referral program (in that I'd be able to afford the game), I also don't see how it could be done effectively (and would be annoyed if at the end, only 9 of the people i sent over did the referral thing properly).

[binarysunrise]

Ok, going back to your initial question.

You did have trouble reaching $51k, so $60k seems more challenging, especially if you've lowered the pricepoint.

At the $40k level, that'd be just the basic 6 monsters? Could you figure out a worst-case-scenario - of how low a goal you need to have a decent base game? (because....couldn't you later have a basic expansion set/kickstarter?  Maybe not go retail until you've funded enough dies?) 

I personally think your explanation of how it costs $600 per die (plus KS/Amazon fees...and paying for the production of a die for every game), and setting stretch goals every $1k made perfect sense. If you want, you could phrase it as $40k gets you the basic game, and goals are stretched out for the first major expansion of the base game. And later goals will be spin-off expansions.

And as for early backer levels - what if you set an early-bird level of $45 for the first 300 backers, and send out a notice to the prior backers beforehand. That way we would all have advance notice, and be able to get in on that $45 tier - without the added confusion of trying to separate pledge levels. That right there would bring in $13.5k, or a third of your funding goal. The next tier could be $49 (if that's what you want it to sell for on KS), but I also think it'll be odd to give out a game that requires bags, without having bags. So you'll need to factor in what is the lowest ($49 plus the cost of bags) price you could have to include the needed bags.

And if custom dies costs up to $600 to set up....well....what if you had a really high level tier for a custom-designed monster die to be added as a KS-exclusive dice. I'm sure someone on this board, right now, has money, and a good idea for a monster. What would be the cost of adding a die to everyone's game, and having a backer cover a majority of the design cost?

[kc2dpt]

A KS succeeds by either having a large number of backers at small pledge levels or a few backers at really high levels. Or both, obviously. My opinion, based on watching and participating in a number of KSs, is have a cheap way for a backer to get in and then give 'em lots of ways to spend more money. 

So I feel you should figure out what is the smallest package you can manage for a base game, the least amount of dice that makes for a good game.

Then have some dice available as an add-on for the people that want to spend more.

Then have some other dice available as stretch goals that everyone gets.

Then have some ridiculous levels. Name a die? Design a die? Whatever it is, work out the cost and put it up there. I've seen people pledge hundreds of dollars for these type of things and it always surprises me but it happens all the time.

Also have really cheap levels. PnP, name in the book as a sponsor, one die. Every pledge at $1 or $5 is another person who will talk to their friends and post to facebook and twitter and such.

The key I think is to have lots of pledge levels for all sorts of people. But if you can figure out a way to get the base cost really low then I think that is the best thing. I took part in Dungeon Roll and the whole time I was thinking about this project. Dice based dungeon crawl and they managed to get the base game at $15 and they made a killing.

Playmats and t-shirts... these add overhead for you. And logistics. Do it if you can manage it, but don't do it if it's gonna screw up the main projects. I was in a KS where people weren't getting their base product because there were delays with the  T-shirts and it screwed up the whole process.

I wouldn't make a tier just for previous backers. That seems to me like it would be a logistical nightmare. How are you going to keep the wrong people from backing at that level? Also referrals seems like a similar logistical hassle. If you have a way to manage these things, then great. Otherwise, don't put the project at risk through overcomplication.

Anyway, just my opinion.

[potluckgames]

It's not as simple as $600 a die.  The new plan, to decrease costs is to create giant molds that each contain a dozen dice or so.  This means the base game is cheaper, but it is not possible to create half games or exclusive dice without printing 2000 of each one. 

 

I know that I lost a lot of backers because the limited version of the game felt incomplete, and it felt like I was manipulating you into the higher level, so I want to avoid that.

 

As for the idea of having 300 early-bird specials, this could easily be sold out before each original backer has a chance to back.  Which might just give incentive, or it might be frustrating.

 

Currently, my plan was to have this goal:

 

SECRET REWARD - This reward is only for those who know the secret. You will receive the secret. International backers, please add $7. (If you do not know the secret, you are welcome to select this reward, and you will receive our sincere thanks instead!)

 

Then I'll send backers of the original project the instructions to get the secret reward, which is a cheaper version of the game with priority shipping (this could mean you get your game a month or two before other people).  Mostly, I just think it would be funny for those who don't know what it is. 

[potluckgames]

By the way, I have no intention of producing the game with only 6 monsters.  It just isn't quality.  The lowest I would go is ten.  But if I start at 40k with 10 monsters, and my goal is 60k with 14 monsters, that means I would only add one die for every $5000.  This may seem a bit silly.

 

Let me be open with the numbers.  The molds I can get down to 13k, but I have a 2000 minimum run at $6.30 a set, which adds about another 13k.  Dice bags, in bulk, get down to about $.75, but I need 10,000, so that's another $7500 dollars.  $2000 to ship them to me, and at least $13 dollars a piece to ship them to anyone else (that's another 26k if I sell them all).  This all adds up to over 60k.

[binarysunrise]

Thanks for the numbers. It's hard to give advice/suggestions without having the figures, and even then, you know the price points, and the profit margins better.

That being said, while I love the support you are giving us, I'd like to clearly state that I feel the "Secret Level" is a bad idea. Really. If Kickstarter will allow such a thing, it still has the potential to cause a lot of confusion and angst among new backers. I'm not sure those not in the know would share your view that it is "funny." (though again, it is appreciated by us). But, all I know is how I'd feel if I saw this on a game I wanted to back.

Please think again about letting all of us know, well in advance, of a general Early Bird level. CMON has done that with some of their board games, and previous backers of Zombicide quickly took most of the early bird slots in Rivet Wars on Kickstarter because they did a direct emailing prior to the Kickstarter launch. If you're afraid of 300 units quickly disappearing (providing you immediate funding for a third of the project), what about 450? Could you afford that number of units at $45 apiece? That would provide you with half the initial funding goal.

As for nixing the idea of exclusive dice - is there any way to incorporate your old plan to create single (more expensive) dice, in a more limited number? Or would that just make everything way too complicated, dealing with different factories, dice not matching, etc.

Looking at your numbers again. 

$61k to make, receive, and ship 2,000 games (with 14 monsters?). If you were to sell just half - 1,000 games, shipping costs would be reduced - to make the total costs be around $48k.  And 450 units at $45, and 550 at $49 would *just* about reach that. But that's not counting Amazon/KS's $5k in fees, plus shipping overages, and fees for designers, your profit, etc. Or storage rental to keep the remaining 1,000 units in inventory.  

I can see how juggling these numbers is challenging. 

Maybe you could take the approach that Dungeon Roll used, and put all of this rationale clearly in the Kickstarter updates for those who don't see how expensive it is to make a high-quality, multi-dice game like this one.

[Michael R.]

As far as I can tell, you just need to do a simple setup on the Kicktraq website to guarantee that you're tracked on Day 1. It doesn't appear to be automatic but I only briefly read the "Project Owners" section.

Seems like the refferal program is a bad idea. Ditto on the "Secret Level". Just be sure to email the backers enough beforehand that they have time to get on board. You can always add another level in with more slots if the original fills up before your original backers get to it.

I agree with the earlier point that a part of successful campaigns is hooking people for a little bit of money and then having them incrementally up their pledges. But, you need to have something to offer people. 

I know this may be crazy, but can you ditch the bags? Or make them a reward for a higher tier? I'd be willing to pay a bit extra for bags instead of using my own. I have no idea what everyone else thinks.

[potluckgames]

Without bags a game would go for $46 instead of $49.  I don't imagine a lot of people would feel excited to get that discount.  But if I sell 2000 games, it adds up to a $6000 difference.

[Michael R.]

Right, which could be of huge importance. Now, I'd be willing to pay a bit more for bags. Maybe make them a higher tier? Or a stretch goal?

[seb.borchert]

Ok, my pennies for KS levels:

 

Make

2$ Level for suppprter, something like: Thanks for supporting us (no costs, and each backer helps)

 

3$ For an additional dice of your choice (not included in higher levels)

 

5$ Thanks and your name in the instructions and our homepage as supporter

 

5$ for an additonal package of bags (not included...)

 

9$ Digital copy of the game (not included ...)

 

14$ Digital Copy with a sheet for your own dice creations... (not incl in higher...)

 

19$ do it your self package (digital copy + blanko dice) --> don´t know if you can handle this for 19$

 

25$ do it your self package with bags (not incl...)

 

...

 

May be the prices are not balanced... but I think that will give you some lower levels and the digital copies will be very attractive for all international backers (just thought as a customer from europe ;-) ) 

 

 

[seb.borchert]

A friend just a had an idea for an KS level with an do it your self version of the game:

 

Prepared sticker sheets (already perforated, so you musn´t cut it by yourself) where you just have to stick the stickers on the dice...

 

May be for 29$... For all who are interested in the game and willing to get it at lower quality... different customer groups ;-)

 

 

 

 

[Michael R.]

I think the usual "Thanks for Supporting" level is $1

What do you mean dice of your choice?

$5 Thanks sounds good.

How would you pledge multiple levels? Say I want the base game + bags? Or would that be a separate tier?

$9 is probably a good(-ish) price point for the PnP but I might make it lower. Unless this also includes access to later expansions (that could also be another Digital Level)

Sheet for own creations?

I don't think $19 DYI is doable. Unless you buy huge lots of flat (non-indented) white single size dice. May be easier to just have digital PnP levels and let people buy the dice on their own. Then again if you can get a good deal and turn a high profit on the markup...

Would it be possible to get perforated sheets of the correct size?

[griffinppatterson]

The numbers are good. Definitely include them in an early update. The reason dungeon roll was able to offer such a low price is because they only had two dice molds and only like 10 dice total. Even with that, the designer had to commit tens of thousands of his own money, only asking for half the startup cost on the kickstarter campaign. This was very well received as it means that the developer has great trust in his project. A major complaint on kickstarter is that developers aren't fiscally responsible for their own projects because it's not their money. But, since dungeon roll was upfront about this, it shattered it's goal and no money was obligated to be paid by the developer. Tell them that with those base costs, it's going to be over 60K but you're only asking for 40K because you want this KS to succeed as much as possible. Numbers are good, always.

As for the premium bags, unless you can find a set of bags that aren't premium, I would not sell the game without any dice bags. It does not seem complete. I know that it might save $6000, but you can't play the game without bags and how many great games have you played where you can't play without having your own bags? Additionally, might be good to have a sample boxart to show on front page with all the dice around it in a cool way. It just shows people how cool the final product looks.

Are you still doing the Cthulhu dice? I feel like those were pretty well received. I personally liked them.

If you're planning on doing a PnP pledge level, don't give away the PnP for free halfway through and have an update with a place to get cheap blank dice for US and EU backers. We can provide our sources if you like. The PnP isn't as dead simple as it is for card games. There is still a pretty fierce cost. But I'm sure some people will get in on it and after an update with help to find appropriate dice, they will jump to the full game.

For additional items, I can now see what everyone means by it's benefits. You do want people to pledge more than just the base game and these little things can help turn a profit towards that. That was the entire point of the aluminum/copper cthulhu dice. But if things are to be added, it would certainly be best if the are at least related to the game. Things like extra dice would be absolutely sick, but if they can't be done they can't be done. I'm still not sure how I feel on things like Tshirts.

Lastly, and just a tiny thing. Don't hide stretch goals unless you don't know what they're going to be. Nobody wins from hiding stretch goals. It's cute, you're mysterious. But the FIRST project I ever backed was one that had like 7 stretch goals laid out and it was the most audacious one that was most alluring. I backed it and they met that stretch goal and I was happier for it. With the change in the Remind Me star on the homepage, people don't receive every update, so you need to think "I at least need them to back at $1 for now."

[seb.borchert]

You can choose a die from the game... and get it additional. May be a second fire elemental, or a second dragon... what ever you want?!

 

 The additional bags and dice are bookable on top... you can choose them as often as you want in addition to an base game or even as stand alone give away...

 

I think every thing helps what can make money... and I think with thousands of white dice (or even a collection in the right colours) you can make a level for it... may be you have to change the price, but its feaseable...

 

You can print and perforate such sticker sheets in a print shop... no big thing...

[griffinppatterson]

I'm not sure exactly how many dice are in a mold, but you can't simply add one. With 40 unique dice in the original PnP, you would have roughly 4 sets of molds. That said, you might be able to say something like "extra monsters" if you want to and have a mold of entirely monsters. Additionally, I think a Kickstarter +1 exclusive with the unique dice from the class dice printable would be really nice. Those equipments were really cool and if you could fit them in a mold without having to purchase an entirely new one, it would be a really great way to get people into the Kickstarter. Exclusives are essential for anyone pledging from abroad. With the recent shipping hike, I've been more prone to wait for games to come to a local supplier than pledge on KS unless there is a sound reason to kickstart it.

[griffinppatterson]

Hold on, I think I just had an idea. Based on the fact that a new mold would be like adding 12 new dice, why don't you set up stretch goals like that? Instead of doing 1 new die every $1000, why don't you set each stretch goal at the "cost" of the new mold set and then add dice that would fill that mold? That way, you could have a stretch that would be "Kickstarter exclusive dice mold," adding a few exclusive dice. Be honest about the level at which the stretch goals are added. Say "Each mold costs $2000 to set up and can hold up to 12 dice." Every $2000 above the base, a new mold can be made that will include brand new dice, some exclusive, some expansive, some that will be part of the base game.

[potluckgames]

Cthulhu dice encountered multiple problems.  Regardless, it could only serve as a separate project and it is too late for that to help fund this one.

 

I don't think we'll be able to afford boxing the game.  Right now the dice will come in dice bags with a rulebook.

[griffinppatterson]

I think that not boxing the game might prove to be a poor decision. It's hard to be taken seriously when you just want people to shoebox a bunch of bags. Labeling is quite important... Even a big bag to store your little bags in with the name of the game would be clever.

[Michael R.]

I agree that being upfront about costs will help people to see why the price is what it is and also makes you more trustworthy.

Griff has a point about not leaving out bags. They seem necessary, but maybe you could offer a "bare bones" level that doesn't include the bags. Also, I'd do some research and see if you can get premium bags. I for one would definitely up my pledge to a "premium" level that included nicer bags or something similar. 

I also agree that having all your stretch goals laid out in advance is very helpful (unless of course you don't know what you want to do at a specific level). You can also poll/survey your backers and see if they want to re-arrange the stretch goals as the campaign goes on. There was a recent campaign run by Minion Games to create custom tokes for their new game Hegemonic and they were constantly re-configuring the campaign to accommodate backer surveys. Asking people and listening to what they say is a good idea.

I really like Seb's idea of being able to "pledge" additional dice. You may want to even break them into sets, such as "weapons" "artifacts" "monsters" "level dice" etc. I would probably want to double up on Artifacts (maybe) and (possibly) Monsters but I would almost certainly want to buy an extra set of Level Dice so I could have extra players.

Some research into the feasibility of a "PnP Kit" level would be worthwhile. If you can make a small profit on the Dice + PnP it may be worth your while. I have no idea how much bulk dice + shipping would cost.

Griff's idea of stretch goals for molds is brilliant and lets you add an unlimited number of stretch goals beyond the original game. I suppose you could even include some sneak previews for possible expansions. O, and I think KS exclusives are a must (even if it is something minor) unless you don't plan to sell the game post KS...

No boxing sort of hurts. Makes me feel like the game isn't finished. Again Griff has a good idea for the Big Bag. How much extra would a proper box cost?

Some links you may want to look at:

For managing backers - https://www.backerkit.com/

Consulting Service - http://www.kickinitgames.com/

Blog by the one of the guys who runs the consulting service - http://www.kickinitgames.com/

I bring all these up because the last two are from someone who ran the Hegemonic & Token campaigns very well and they used the backerkit tool.

[binarysunrise]

So it seems like the bags *will* be included (and economically, it doesn't make sense to leave them out). But the box *won't*. I didn't want to harp on this after pointing out that I didn't like some of the other ideas, and didn't have anything positive to add. But I love Griff's idea of a larger bag to contain it all. It seems like it could be cheaper than a box? Have you priced other options like this? One large (even cheaply made) bag with a logo on it could be an affordable alternative than delivering a pile of bagged dice to your customers. Was there a plan to sell this at the retail level, or online, or at conventions? If so....would it just be a group of bagged dice?

Or what of some Chinese bulk container (either a tin, a box, etc.) that you could slap a sticker on? But of course that'd add shipping costs both ways....

And I do love the idea of looking at expansions/stretch goals in groups of 12 die, as that would be the required mold. A promo, or special add-on, theoretically *could* be created, as long as you keep the price of the dice in mind. Such a promo expansion would be for a dozen dice (or 2 different sets of 6), and if you could guesstimate a lower number than 2,000, you could adjust the price accordingly (upwards) to make up for the difference (assuming your factory could take orders of less than 2,000 for smaller promos).  Or, you could theoretically calculate it so that in the 12-die mold, you have space for an extra die or two, which could become a special promo die, or a backer-designed die.

Summarizing....package - yes, secret stretch goal - no, any other possible die options - yes.

[griffinppatterson]

I kind of feel bad for kickstarter developers. The people want kickstarter exclusive items, but in all reality, it's hardly a possibility. You can't do one off prints or molds for a small group of people. But there are a few places that have started using kickstarter promos as items for kickstarter and for conventions. I do hope that you can find some sort of container for all the dice. If you were planning on sending anything to Tom Vasel, you're going to need a container for it or he won't be able to promote it properly.

[matias.korman]

+1 for "you need a box". Imagine when selling this game to retailers. Where will they put the game otherwise? If a customer outside KS is interested...where will he read info on the game? on the bag itself?

[binarysunrise]

AH. I forgot about the instructions. If they haven't been printed yet, they'll need to fit whatever container/bag is going to be used now (or later, if it is not at all economically feasible to box it now, delaying later retail sales).

[binarysunrise]

Sorry for sending so many notes...if I could edit, it'd be easier as my thoughts don't come linearly....

My big idea for the night - What if 1 of the dice bags was oversized, and could serve as a package *and* a draw bag?

[potluckgames]

The shipping cost alone for boxes makes it impossible.

 

I will look into the bag idea.

 

 

[seb.borchert]

So if it´s no bug (no boxing), it´s a feature!

 

The KS get their game in an exclusive big bag, later the game will boxed for selling it into shops, etc.... Just a point of the perspective ;-)

[Michael R.]

You know, that doesn't actually sound that bad. Something along the lines of "Backers will receive an exclusive KS only version which comes packaged in a special Dungeon Dice bag. This won't be available in stores after this release" or something along those lines...

Way to be optimistic Seb (and also thanks for sneaking in a programmer joke!)

[Devaliant]

Big bag idea is big badass idea. This IS already a bag game, you could box it later if you would but I´d never bother putting it in it. 

If you already have some more weapons and monsters and items planned, why not remove one of each from the base game and make it a Premium edition?

Noone will know that they were originally planned for base game, and you already have design, room in molds and production cost covered.

If you have 12 monsters already, you could make base game with 10, and add 2 mini-expansions with the rest. 

[griffinppatterson]

Would those of us with free games be able to do add-ons? I'm loving the final bag and wouldn't mind a few more dice as well. (Though I don't have $65 for everything I want)

[potluckgames]

Of course.

[seb.borchert]

A silly question, shortly before KS is ending...

Whats my bid on KS for a game with all addons?

I bid now for the playtester level, getting the base game for playtesting and good ideas(see first post ;-) ), but without addons, right?