Knight Class Ability Discussion

[mrjhaugen]

This is a place to make your suggestions for the Knight Class ability.

My suggestion:

Knights count their armor as 1 level more effective than what is rolled on the armor dice.

[tri4ceswordsman]

I was thinking the knight could have a weapon proficiency meaning he could turn a 2 handed weapon to a one giving the knight an extra die for combat.

[Sam Coates]

Keep in mind that passive abilities would be a new concept in the game.  We would need a mechanic to incorporate it.  Such as dice that may be rotated at will, but only one face may be used epr combat.

[Jordan Johnston]

What about a Shield Bash ability. Take the highest dice that a monster rolls and reduce it to a 1.

Or perhaps an Aura of Strength. Each hero that is participating in the battle gets to reroll one dice of his/her choice.

[lignum87]

My idea for the knight class ability is a Shield Bash. Perhaps it would cause the enemy (or player, if sabotaging?) to have their total decreased by a certain number. Perhaps dependent on the heroes amount of xp/level.

[rogue148]

My thinking is something along the lines of a "Surge of Strength."  Which would allow the Knight to do one of the following:

 

• If equipped with a 2H weapon, equip an additional 1H weapon (that he already owns and has available to him) of his choice.  Roll the new die.
• If equipped with two 1H weapons, replace one (of his choice) with a 2H weapon (that he already owns and has available to him).  Roll the new die.

[griffinppatterson]

Perchaps an assist or inspire ability would allow each attacking hero to reroll any ones.

[Sam Coates]

The knight should be a class that focuses on assisting others.  We can have another warrior class, but for now I really like the idea of granting bonuses to group fights.

 

I had considered a "cover" ability, but what would you get in return for protecting other players?  If you got the treasure, then no one would want your help.

 

I like the assist/inspire idea.  Any other cool ideas on how to implement covering allies?

[seb.borchert]

If we think about the class dice as additional dice, they have to contain concrete actions... so if I think about a knight, swords and armour came up. So why we cant give him a die with swords, armour and may be a strengh symbol. This die doesn´t affect the wepaons and armor limitation of the player...

If we think about passive abilities: What about this, the knight doesn´t suffer from tie, so you win even with a tie without suffering a wound (because of armour, leadership, etc) ... 
or
Leadership: The Knight may ask 2 Players for help which are fighting instead the knights player. Both get experience but the knight get the rewards or wounds as normal...

[griffinppatterson]

I think the additional assistance is a bit overpowered, but I like the idea of winning on ties. However, the fact that it would only come up on one face of the die makes it a little underpowered because it's effectively a damage roll of 1 (without this roll, you tie and take a wound, with this roll, you gain 1 damage and effectively don't tie anymore).

[Sam Coates]

This missing symbol will be the knight's strongest ability.  It should roughly be equivalent to rolling a four.  Take a look at the corresponding powers.

[griffinppatterson]

What about some sort of critical hit? The idea of taking your lowest die and making it a 6? That would be +5 at best.

[Jordan Johnston]

Should the knight ability really be a universal buff though? It is a competitive game after all. I mean, I know I suggested an aura, but it keeps the knight players advancement in mind, not necessarily the other players.

[griffinppatterson]

I don't understand what you mean by universal buff? It would only be when that face of the knight die is rolled. So it's a 1/6 chance of you getting to crit one of your dice. And a 1/6 chance of using getting a shield.

[Jordan Johnston]

That was aimed at Sam Coates comment above: "The knight should be a class that focuses on assisting others."

I feel like that takes away from the competitive spirit of the game. I tried to link it to his comment, but I did it on my phone and clearly it didn't work well.

[Sam Coates]

Let me rephrase.  The knight's ability should have the flavor of protecting others, with a gameplay advantage for the player.  A lame example would be that you can take a wound for another player, but grab a free potion as well.  The best "assist" idea I've seen so far is allowing your ally a number of rerolls.

[numbat42]

How about a "Charge" ability? This lets the knight roll an extra hero level die for one combat. If used assisting others, then the higher the roll on this extra die, the greater the chance of the knight getting the treasure (So grateful for your assistance good Sir Knight).

[Sam Coates]

Have you played munchkin?  The elf gets levels for helping in a fight.  The result?  No one wants an elf's help.

[numbat42]

Ah.. but this is a gallant knight. If the extra hero die comes up 1, 2 or 3 he accepts no reward, he accepts a reward one third of the time on a 4 or 5, and half the time on a 6.    (and no, I haven't played munchkin - too much back-stabbing for us)

[binarysunrise]

"The knight's ability should have the flavor of protecting others, with a gameplay advantage for the player."

But, as pointed out, in a competitive game you may not want to give the other player such an advantage. To that end, this approach would seem best for those scenarios where you *must* have the help of other players (and thus welcome the boon granted by a knight, and not mind as much the added benefit given back to him). Take, for example, a more epic boss-level monster, that requires team effort to defeat. I can easily see the knight being a great character in such a game. And if you can devise scenarios where team-work is needed often, maybe the knight could get a personal advantage not every time, but maybe for every 3rd damsel (i.e. other player) saved/assisted, to even it out a bit.

[Sam Coates]

Well, hold on.  I understand the argument, but when two players gang up on a monster, they temporarily share the interest of defeating the monster.  This is the point where an assist bonus has no drawbacks. 

[kc2dpt]

Something to consider: if the knight grants an assist bonus, then this automatically gives the knight an edge when negotiating to be the assistant. This alone might be enough of a bonus for the knight.

[matias.korman]

I agree with Sam,

If the knight gets a power similar to the elf in Munchkin, then no one will want the knight's help. Instead, the charge power (something like get 1 extra die when helping others) sounds better.

In general, I would like to step away from races/classes being a treasure. Either you get to choose one once you reach a certain level, or you get one at random in early game

[mrjhaugen]

Definitely... I don't like classes and races being treasure. I do like the idea of multi-classing.

Being an expansion, an extra dicebag and/or starting step wouldn't be amiss.  Choosing a class dice rather than a level dice also seems like a nice mechanic.

[griffinppatterson]

I think my first playtesting of races and classes will be to give each player a race at random and put the classes in the treasure bag. I don't want people to be able to multi class because the 33% positive results are mad beneficial and it becomes mad OP if people have two shots at getting a great result. I don't see how this is a bad idea. Not every hero gets an apprenticeship immediately in their endeavors. They must stumble across a great teacher in their adventure.

[binarysunrise]

What about some egalitarian-Round-Table approach? When a knight helps you double-team-attack a monster, both players get the highest dice total rolled.

[Lignum]

I like the idea of taking a wound better than the allowing rerolls. When I think of allowing rerolls I think of inspiration. I guess that a knight could do that, but I like to think of that belonging more to a bard or the like.

The problem with these ideas is that there's no bonus if no assisting is going on whereas the other class's abilities don't necessarily mean you're helping someone. Granted that would be the idea of being a knight but it seems more limited when compared. Or maybe the ability could depend on the situation (ie assisting or soloing).

For an idea on a different aspect of being a knight, maybe we could focus on his valor and fame. Maybe he could get a bonus of some sort when facing particularly strong monsters (the highest level side on a monster's die) or when assisting another hero who is facing the strongest of monsters which would make him a very helpful ally indeed.