Freestyle Playtesting

[Sam Coates]

Potluck Games is happy to introduce Freestyle Playtesting. What is freestyle playtesting?

It means you may submit your own dice for other players to test out. Other players may review your dice and offer feedback.

Don't have a Print and Play set yet? No problem. You can still throw out ideas for other players to test out and possibly win a free game.

For now, we're offering this 11 die expansion for backers only. First up, we have magical equipment for the treasure bag. They're not nearly as powerful as artifacts, but occasionally they do something nice.

Next, we're including a lightning spell, followed by Class dice, and finally a Mimic.

The Mimic goes in the treasure bag. If you draw it, you get in a fight instead of getting your treasure. So sad. Actually, it could be nice. You may win the fight for extra experience and a locked chest. Or you may be horribly, horribly mangled.

For the lightning spell, we're testing out one of our backer's ideas. The lightning symbol "shocks" your opponent's dice away if they are of equal value. So the level 3 shock, for example, removes ALL threes from your opponent's combat dice. We think this will be more effective for sabotaging other players.

Lastly, we want to explain the brown dice. These are level 1 classes. The first row is the Thief, the second is the Cleric, then the Wizard, and finally the Knight. You may notice some new symbols. Here is there explanation in order.

Secret Passage - The thief finds additional treasure that others may have overlooked. Upgrade your reward. Potion-->Treasure-->Locked chest. Or you may simply draw an extra potion.

Bless - If the hero is losing combat, he may reroll all of his own dice.

Summon - The wizard may roll a trophy, summoning the defeated monster and adding its level to combat (a level 3 monster adds "3" to the fight.)

What about the Knight? Well, that's where our first contest starts. We want you to come up with a good ability for the knight. If we use your idea, we'll give you a free copy of the game. Sound good? But where to start... does the knight cover his allies, gain some extra bonus for assisting, or or maybe he's able to switch weapons mid-fight.

You can take it wherever you want.

Just for fun, we're starting our second contest......... now.

We've playtested a few of the classes in the blue treasure bag. It works well, and is fairly balanced. Drawing a class can be good or bad, depending on what equipment you already have. Still, we want to see if you can come up with something better. Maybe classes are drawn from a different bag before the game starts. Maybe you have the option to draw one instead of gaining a level die. Do the classes level up? If you've got a good mechanic for this, go ahead and post it. If we use your Class mechanic, we'll give you a free copy of the game.

One last comment. Please don't post anything in this group that you are not willing to allow freely into the game. All ideas expressed here are shared in good will. If we believe we have profited from your idea, we would love to hook you up. We just want to make sure there are no hard feelings if an idea is not used, or if multiple players come up with the same idea.

You can find a PDF copy of these 11 dice here:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B385kuP_VrVeVl9YWk01NERGbzA/edit

[jtgreendragon]

What does the eye symbol on the spear do?

[jtgreendragon]

[kc2dpt]

I don't see an eye symbol on the spear.

[griffinppatterson]

he means on the artifact spear. It means that the player may roll the dice and choose whether he wants to fight. It's in the update. It basically means that you may fight the entire fight and if you lose, you can use the eye and cancel the entire fight effectively saving you a wound. Since you may choose which enemy to fight with the spear and then roll all the dice with the eye, it's basically a mulligan card.

[Sam Coates]

You don't fight the entire fight (abilities and all).  The eye lets you "Scout," which shows the mosnters base roll before you decide whether you want to fight it.  Since the spears "Reach" lets you see your own roll, this particular combo lets you see both sides, which is a huge advantage.

[griffinppatterson]

sorry, it was the first comment on the "freestyle playtesting" update:

"Oops, missed the "eye" icon.

Scout - You may see the monster's roll before deciding to fight. (Yes, on a spear this means you see the whole fight)"

[kc2dpt]

We played with the full pnp dice set tonight and found it too easy. Maybe it was luck of the draw but there were very few times the active player felt the need to ask for assistance. I had a pile of spells I never had to use. I wonder if it was the monster mix? I recall at one point you had released a subset of monsters and said make 2 of each. Then with the current pnp you gave us all the monsters and I guess we make one of each? Do you have list of what a balanced monster bag should look like?

[Sam Coates]

Were you playing with two of each?  With all of these new monsters, I would only include one of each.  That way, as the easier monsters are killed, the game becomes more difficult.

[griffinppatterson]

I have to ask what you did with the classes and how they affected the game? What dice were you using that made it so easy to whoop ass? Was it just the spells? Did everyone have spells that could have been used to screw eachother over?

[kc2dpt]

We only had one of each.

We rolled a lot of green and blue so no trophies so no change of bag probabilities.

A red dragon got taken out pretty early so there was a potentially tough monster taken out early.

We didn't use classes. I haven't had a chance to make dice for the new stuff yet. It's just the "full game" pnp set.

Late in the game we did have some screw each other spells and they got used to extend the game maybe 3 more turns?

I want to play more games to see how often this comes up but I know it'll inevitably happen sometimes in games with random monster draws. Thunderstone is a excellent game but we've had sessions where the draws are either way too easy or way to hard. There's not much one can do to fix it.

On an unrelated note, one of the players drew two armor dice for their initial equipment and that was a bummer. I'm tempted to house rule that if you can't use both your initial blue dice you put them both back in the bag and draw again.

[griffinppatterson]

I would say that the person who drew two armors should trade with a person that had none. Anyone who could trade and won't just made an enemy.

[griffinppatterson]

Had my first playtest today. It was just me mucking about with the dice. Nothing formal. Sometimes I think that four fame is a bit too little. Where Munchkin ends up having too long games, Dungeon Dice does seem to feel a bit short. One game I ran through had a person end up with four artifacts without ever defeating a monster solely because he had the golden key (rolled one unguarded chest, rolled past a monster, got two from others rolling past the monster and using his help). Have you considered requiring the winner to have collected at least 1 trophy?

Also, the classes are a must as using spells is extremely uncommon without a wizard nearby. I would like to hash out a knight class ability soon so I can print out the classes and get them in the bag.

[Sam Coates]

The chances of rolling a locked chest without having to kill anything is 1 in 15.  I think you'll find that whoever is in the lead is unlikely to be invited into fights that will get them fame.  Or players may haggle.  For example, you have three fame and a key, I have one fame and no key.  I'm only going to let you help if I get the fame 5 out of 6 times.  4 out of 6 if I'm desperate.

[griffinppatterson]

I know it's extremely unlikely, but it was really annoying. the two that were taken were 4/6 and happened first. Also, I do agree that more artifacts would be great.

[matias.korman]

I think it is fine as it is. We played several times to 4 fame and found it a nice amount...longer would mean that the losing guy is eager to quit, where in here he has a chance of recovering until the last minute. Shorter would mean less meaningful choices.

I have had times in King of Tokyo in which a particular player did not get to play (he got 10 damage before that), or in D-Day Dice in which you die in first round (rolling no soldiers). It of course can happen, but if it does everyone understands it is a 1 in a million chance and they restart. It makes no sense to make the game longer only to make the chance of an extreme roll more unlikely.

[griffinppatterson]

Yeah, you're right. These are simply experiences I had mocking a playthrough. I can't say if they're even realistic as I was only representing myself. If I get a chance to play with some other people today, I'll see what reality is like.

[seb.borchert]

Do you tested the duell die as well?

[griffinppatterson]

I did not... I still have yet to print that out. I'll likely do so when we get a good idea of races and abilities so I can add the classes, races and duel dice to it.

[griffinppatterson]

Right, so yesterday we had a 6 hour power outage. All that I had was a single emergency light in the corridor and nothing really to do. So, I sat under the light and played solo Dungeon Dice for about 3-4 hours. Played two 4 player games and one three player game and here's what I came up with.

-Definitely no need for 2x monsters. With the extra monsters that were added as stretch goals, the number is prime. More variety is always nice, but duplicates would only increase cost, not quality of game

-More artifacts is definitely a must. In one of my 4 player games, the winner came out with 2 monster trophies and 2 artifacts. The last artifact he picked up to win was the last one in the bag and it kinda sucked to think "great, i get the dreggs of the special weps"

-More spells is definitely a must and more times to use them would be good. It was just my luck, but I drew a lot of curses and not many spells from the one use bag. I didn't end up using stun very much because I think the weighting should be different. The probability of a monster rolling majority of ones or twos is low. The majority of player rolling ones or twos is higher. The probability of stunning out twos is low. This makes the optimal stun situation very unlikely. Considering the fact that you will stun out your ones and his ones, you might only get 1-2 damage 33% of the time. There was a situation where the monster had three 2s and I had 2 ones. While getting six out of it would have been great, I didn't want to risk the 17% chance at great against a 33% chance of bad. With that, I recommend the stun to be changed to 1,1,1,2,2,0

-classes and races will be a great addition to the mix. It will really add a lot to dynamic of the game

Right, I also had the chance to think up a few new items that might add a bit more diversity.

Spells:

Fissure - Flip X dice upside down (assumes that dice are weighted in the same way as 1-6 dice. opposite pairs are 1-6, 2-5, 3-4)

Bound Weapon - Roll any weapon you otherwise could not legally hold (Obviously would only be useful for players, not monsters)

Steal - Monster steals treasure from you. If player then loses battle, the weapon is lost.

Artifacts:

Bound Sword - A low damaging sword that uses 0-H to hold (can be used with two other 1 handed weapons or one two handed weapon)

Sword1/1/Sword2/2/Sword0/0

Staff - Staffs can reroll enemy spells 1 handed

Staff2+scroll/Staff3/Scroll/2+scroll/3/Staff2

Full armor - Shield with 100% success rate

Shield0/Shield1/Shield1/Shield3/Shield+scroll/Shield+sword

Treasures:

Staff - 1 handed weapon that allows rerolling of spells

Staff0/Staff1/Staff2/1/1/2

Staff + 1 - Much like the other special weapons released in the 11 dice freestyle play group

Staff+spell/Staff1/Staff2/1/1/2

Blocking Sword - Sword item with chance to block an attack

Sword1/Sword2/Sword+Shield/1/2/3

Spells and Races:

I had the feint idea that it might be nice to increase a way to gain fame. This did lead me to the idea that leveling up classes might be a possibility. Here's the idea. Races are simply class level dice. At the beginning of the game, you pick a race die. These races learn at different speeds, but also have different abilities. They are much like the hero dice in that they show experience gained in classes. Classes, as far as I could produce, go up to level 4. The class die has six faces, with two being blank, and the other four contain symbols pertaining to abilities. These abilities can only be unlocked by choosing to put the experience from defeating a monster toward your hero level or your class level. Gaining enough experience in your class (by rotating your race die) unlocks the abilities

Races:

Orc - The orc learns slowly, but can hold two 2-Handed weapons at a time

1(1)/2(1)/3(1)/4(2)/5(2)/6(2)/7(3)/8(3)/9(3)/10(4)

Human - The human is generally normal race with only the ability to learn more quickly than others

1(1)/2(2)/3(2)/4(3)/5(3)/6(4)

Elf - The elf can nimbly avoid losing battle by rolling 1 d6 and avoiding damage on a roll 4-6

1(1)/2(1)/3(2)/4(2)/5(3)/6(3)/7(3)/8(4)

Lizardman - The lizardman always has the eye ability (roll monster dice before fight), allowing him the foresight to determine whether he's strong enough to defeat this monster

1(1)/2(2)/3(2)/4(2)/5(3)/6(3)/7(3)/8(4)

Dwarf - The Dwarf has the benefit of choosing from a strong armory of treasures, allowing him to take 3 at the beginning of the game

1(1)/2(1)/3(2)/4(2)/5(2)/6(3)/7(3)/8(3)/9(3)/10(4)

Classes:

Thief

Lvl 1: Sneak - Run away from a losing battle with no wound

Lvl 2: Pick Lock - Same as the hammer. Avoid need for key to open locked chest

Lvl 3: Backstab - Turn one lvl die to 4 (max face)

Lvl 4: Treasure upgrade - Turn one potion treasure to chest or chest treasure to locked chest

Berserker

Lvl 1: Enrage - Roll one extra level die

Lvl 2: Kill - Execute monster if same level as your hero level

Lvl 3: Taunt - Increase monster level by one (you may choose not to do this)

Lvl 4: Tackle - Reroll monster dice

Mage

Lvl 1: Spell - Roll a free spell

Lvl 2: Counter - remove spell from monster

Lvl 3: Summon - summon trophy monster

Lvl 4: Pestilence - Reroll all monster sixes

Knight:

Lvl 1: Shield - reroll 1 monster die

Lvl 2: Strength - reroll 2 of your hero dice (two swords)

Lvl 3: Beckon - Call one hero into battle if help is needed

Lvl 4: Mulligan - Reroll monster level

Cleric:

Lvl 1: Heal - restore 1 health

Lvl 2: Foresight - roll out battle and decide to fight (same as spear + eye)

Lvl 3: Divine choice - Select treasure to be taken from winning

Lvl 4: Bless - reroll own dice

So yeah, let me know what you think of this idea. If you think having 6 possible faces that must be unlocked, I'm up for it. However, with that. the game would take longer to make a level 3 hero with a level 4 class, so if I give it a whirl, I'd probably play to 5 fame.

[Sam Coates]

There are a lot of good ideas in there.  I don't want the races to be too complicated, but I also don't want the expansion to be barely noticeable. 

 

I'm going to experiment with a few of these ideas.

[matias.korman]

I would rather we get the benefit from the race/class a random one. For example a dice that has an icon and a number in each face. If you roll a number higher than your current level then you do not benefit. For example: 

Thief

0-Empty Face (no benefit)

1-Pick Lock

2-Sneak

3-Sneak

3-Backstab

4-Treasure upgrade

Etc, what do you think?

[griffinppatterson]

that was how I imagined it as well. had a quick playthrough of it. Really enjoyable. I think the level counter needs to be revised. Sucks to think "crap, i need to kill two more monsters just to open up another face" But that's a hard thing to nitpick over. Will take a few more playthroughs (and more than just d6 dice)

[seb.borchert]

I really like the steal ability for monster... it could make monsters more dangerous and players would think twice to encounter a battle which they can win just improblably!

 

And much more nice idea´s around!

 

 

Race/Class experience:

Thats the way I mentioned class experience in another thread... but combining with the race level is new and could be the solution of the mentioned problem.

 

So we would need a second expierence tracker for it right?

 

 

[griffinppatterson]

Yeah, it was my idea that the race would provide a general ability but would be represented by an experience tracker. My only problem with my current thought was that many of the dice wouldnt be D6 meaning that someone could feel for a particular race.

I know I was adamant about non levelable abilities, but this idea gave the thought hope in my mind. We'll see where it goes from there.

And I also like the steal ability for that reason. When I did quick solo playthroughs, I didn't bother rolling out some of the level ones because they were jokingly weak.

[Devaliant]

My most sincere apologies:

I just realized I haven´t read this thread, although I thought I had since GGroups showed it as read (no bold headlines)

I see that Griffin has posted nearly the exact same in this thread that I did in the Class Dice Discussion; I did NOT read this beforehand and try to make a coup of it. It´s funny however how we had almost the exact same thoughts.
I really like the Races idea with a single d6 dice too; you are what you are and nothing can change that.


We played again tonight, 4 people. Some really nice haggling, and fame spread out very nice. I ended up winning with ONLY a bow and armor, whereas two of the other players had artifacts and red monsters.

We tend to do some gambling rolls on our fame dice and artifacts, and there was some serious snickering about all the proposals.

A few things came up though:

Backstab was used, noone likes it when they suffer, but it was all smiles when they blew me off for a fame. Only really tipped the scale 4 or 5 times. Big success.

People want more monsters. Period.
Especially the weaker ones taking backstab into comparison, since you may easily fail a lvl 2. This isn´t true though, since it very often was ineffective. Several times people hugged their die; monster goes down and a red key is pulled. Instant curses.

In a 4-player game, blue dice are a bit scarce. One hugged his blues for a future artifact, and I had 4 but noone to be drawn. Some more weapons should be nice aswell.

Armor needs another symbol, perhaps a helmet. This is the second time someone mistakes it for a 1H shield and removes it in favor of a weapon.

A few more spells in the red bag. Perhaps also make a rule about the number of red keys compared to number of players? Not really an issue but it was brought up, and I forward.

Definetly more artifacts. As someone mentioned, it feels a bit like scraping the bottom of the bucket. Some more diversity is sweet.

I´ve ordered some 100 more dice to add race and class, hopefully I will have them ready for the next playtest.
Finally, a picture to set the mood. Please take note of the beautifully scavenged bags!

Dev

(after some beer and Balvenie; typofragicnal errors be excused plx)

[Michael R.]

Your comment on the armor made me think of something. Could we add a 1H shield as another mundane treasure? Not sure how to balance the sides but it could be some combination of damage (like a weapon) from a shield bash and also the possibility of an armor effect. Thoughts?

[casu.gianluca]

In fact we could simply use the sheme of the shield but with an option. if you get the shield you do reroll the lowest attack as usual and IF he rolls LOWER you add the rerolled die to your pool

This would represent the fact that you are hitting and defending at the same time.

[Devaliant]

I.... I...need some graphics... quick...

Dev

[seb.borchert]

@Dev: You can´t use the same icon in different ways... that would be very confusing!

[seb.borchert]

What do you think about this alternate Rules:

 

You can´t equip more items than your actual exp. points (that will force players to support each other!)

 

You can only equip as many items of one type (potion/treausre/artifact) as your actual level is... (will also lead to more teamwork I guess)

 

Both make 2 handed items more interesting in the beginning of the game...

[casu.gianluca]

How about this?

Sorry i did it quickly. basically you get SHIELD-SHIELD-SHIELD-1-2-0 and if you get the SHIELD value you get the effect I described (IE he rerolls and IF he gets a lower value that is the value you rolled)

[Devaliant]

On Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:29:00 AM UTC+2, seb.borchert wrote:

@Dev: You can´t use the same icon in different ways... that would be very confusing!

I don´t understand. Where did I do that?

Dev 

[casu.gianluca]

Is the template actually readable to anyone? I noticed just now that it is actually very small.

[Michael R.]

I can read it when I open it in a new window, but yes it is very small.

[potluckgames]

 

Okay, here's what I've got.  This is on a thin, polyester mouse pad.  They would run $6 each, which means $18 for a set.  I wanted some feedback before I post it.

[griffinppatterson]

I think it's a great addition to the game, but I don't think my quick MS Paint work is a suitable addition to a game.

I think a pile of gold/trophies in the trophy room, a weapon rack in the inventory, an few racks of potions in the one use area and some bandages in the wounds would really add a whole lot. Plus my colours look too much like easter.

The idea is absolutely awesome and I love that you can do them on such thin mouse pads, but I really think the look of it needs a lot of work.

[potluckgames]

I was hoping it would look a little better once it was mocked up in  illustrator.  Really, I can't get an artist on it right now.

[potluckgames]

But backers are slowing down.  Do you think it would be a bad idea to offer something simple over nothing at all?

 

[griffinppatterson]

I think if you were to state that it is not the final design and you are working on a more thematic playmat, people will be excited that the playmat is being offered. Temporary art is perfectly fine to offer (hell, many tabletop kickstarters only have temporary art on their campaign page), I think it also gives people something to look forward to in the next month.

Short of the art, I really like the add on and I think many people will jump on it.

[potluckgames]

I wouldn't be able to offer art unless I made it a future stretch goal (around 60k).  Maybe that would encourage more backers. 

[griffinppatterson]

You could always make it a giveaway. Make it a two part giveaway. Everyone who submits a playmat design gets an entry to the drawing and whomever does the best design gets a free game.

[binarysunrise]

Yeah, I would want it more pretty. Here's more of what I was thinking. Only, you know, professionally done :)

(and I'd want to check the sizes of the boxes to make sure they fit the needs of the categories, etc.)

[Michael R.]

Posting temp. art is fine, just make sure to have a big disclaimer saying so. Crowdsourcing possible art is a good idea. You could also just leave it plain, I don't mind it so much. I know I'm in for a set.

[potluckgames]

Would it be tacky to post the pic and ask how many backers would be interested? 

 

I'm really torn between offering it or offering nothing.  A design contest sounds like a good idea, but it won't produce professional results.  You either need to go simple or all the way.

[Michael R.]

Getting more feedback is always a good idea, in my opinion.

[binarysunrise]

Using mousepads as playmats is an ingenious idea, and worth sharing with other backers, I think.

And I *really* want to have trophy mounts for my trophies :)

[potluckgames]

I like the trophy mount idea.  I just can't justify the cost of commissioning an artist.

[binarysunrise]

can you find an artist with a dice habit? :)

[Michael R.]

Completely unrelated, but our mounts a possible future expansion? The "trophy mount" idea is what brought it to mind...

[potluckgames]

I want to introduce more one-use dice to the game.  My concern has always been that it would mean fewer treasures, which would make the games longer, and create problems.

 

Then I realized, I could just put a potion on the 5 on monster level dice.  It would give a healthy number of extra potions, without reducing treasure chest rewards.

 

For those of you with PnPs, I would appreciate if you could test this out in your next games.  Hopefully it would mean more player interaction.

[griffinppatterson]

I am totally up for ways to introduce more one use dice, as I rarely ever see scrolls come my way. So your saying that potions will be dished out for fives and sixes? Maybe (considering the fact that EVERYONE seems to want variable equipment dice) you could have an item that gives you a potion as part of your roll. Actually, that's not very thematic. Scrap that.

I'll give the 5&6 monster roll a shot today.

[griffinppatterson]

I gave the potions for fives a sixes a shot and it while it didn't pull in a lot more potions than usual, it did change the mindset a little. People were willing to throw a bomb or a curse in non-crucial situations (in my games, people hoard those to prevent someone from winning the game and for nothing else) and others were willing to fight a more powerful monster if they had a healing potion because they thought that they'd get healing potions back more easily later on. There did come a point in our 3 player game that there were only 3 one use dice left in the bag.

[binarysunrise]

I've been thinking about the Epic Bosses expansion, and the previous idea tossed about with the Arena dice. And I think they both could be wonderful counter-points to each other. I posted briefly on BGG about this.

1) Arena Die - We thought it'd be nice to have some mechanism in place to have an offering for more combative play for those that didn't want just a family-friendly game. I thought this could be a single die (or 2) put in the monster bag, with some sort of Arena logo on it (faces are the same, no need for rolling). This would mean that the person drawing the die could challenge any other player to mandatory one-on-one combat (no running away). The victor gets to choose *any* one die of the other player. This could be quite fun in taking down the leader (and taking one of his trophies or magical artifacts) - and to make it more vicious, maybe other players could weigh in and cast curses and such from the sidelines.

2) Epic Bosses - As the Arena die added a special die to the bag to encourage *combative* play, the Epic Bosses would add a single die (or 2) with some sort of Epic Bosses logo on it (faces are the same, no need for rolling) that would encourage *cooperative* play. When this die is drawn, everyone at the table will join in a mandatory cooperative fight against an Epic Boss (no running away). I think it'd be great if the Epic Bosses were in their own bag, and there'd be some sort of standardized reward system for taking down an Epic Boss, as everyone at the table would either win or lose together. (and you could collectively yell at the friend that picked on a monster that was too big to take down). I think I'm fine with an Epic Boss having less of a reward than the Dragon, as everyone gets it, and the cooperative mechanic makes it more unique gameplay experience already.

[potluckgames]

I like the idea of everyone paying a couple dollars and a new die is unlocked.  But I don't know how to do this.  If I just ask everyone to raise their bids, they will do so, unlock the die, and then decrease their bids.  At least half of them, anyway?  I could ask for an increase of 1000, but how do I track it?  Trust?

 

Alternately, I could set up a fund off-site.  Send money to Potluck and we'll let you know when you've earned a die.  That doesn't really work, for the opposite reason.  How do you know what I actually got?  It seems kind of tacky.

 

I could set up a second kickstarter project to fund this one!  Which isn't allowed.  Maybe something on indiegogo.

 

My point is that it seems like a great idea, but how do I execute it?  Maybe you have an idea?

[matias.korman]

Hello there,

The idea (as seen in other KS) is as follows:

-Give a deadline within the KS project. Say the 10th of May

-Until this date the price of each die is not set. Everyone raises and lowers the pledge however they want, 

-Once this date is passed, the price of each die is fixed, say 7$. 

-Then people readjust their pledge. What I have seen in other projects is that rather than lowering their pledge, people increase their pledge to add extra die. The money they already pledged is money they can afford to spend, so they say "heck, it is just 3 more bucks to get an extra die, let's do it"

What do you think?

[griffinppatterson]

Just an idea that I had:

It's a bit of a gamble, but you could have people pledge unaccounted for money (say $5 or something). In the survey, at the end of the campaign, people will state where the money goes to. That's where they'll say the $5 goes to the Super Secret Dungeon Dice Gamble. If $1000 is raised from this super secret gamble, a new die is unlocked, if $2000 is raised, two dice and so on. If <$1000 is raised, then you lost the gamble. It's as close to betting as you can get (as people don't know how many other people pledged their $5). Obviously $5 shouldnt be the actual number, some maths might be more worthwhile to see how possible it actually is.

I'm not sure how people will take to gambling on KS, but if you assure them (with numbers) how possible it is, it might be worth them joining in on it.

Alternatively, you could say "if X amount of playmats are added onto the games by the end of the kickstarter, an extra die will be unlocked." I say playmats because I imagine they're what you're making the most profit on. If not, I would go with whatever is most profitable. The best difference between this and the former is that people will add playmats knowing they are getting something free out of it, whereas with the SSDDG, people might consider that to be an add-on that may never actually exist.

[matias.korman]

The problem of this idea is again the fact that we have no way to verify this. How many people added 5$ as a gamble? We are trying to increase the $$ in pledge, and this can be easily tracked. It sounds to me a much more natural idea

[griffinppatterson]

I know the idea is flawed, but I'll just lay it out. Say Potluck says $5 for a gamble. Somebody from the US likes this idea and ups his pledge to $122 (Game with luxury bags + $24 four game mats + $9 carry-all + $5 gamble). All we see is the money going up (which is a good thing), at the end of the campaign, when the survey goes out, there will be a question with how you want the money dished out. There, he will write, "game mats x4, carry-all bag, $5 gamble" Potluck will add determine how much money was raised from the gamble and will post an update after the campaign, "Awesome news guys, we raised an extra $2435 from the gamble, unlocking two extra dice for everyone who gambled!" It's always nice to hear after you spent the money that you're getting something you almost didnt expect. That said, I still think people will see it as a chancey add-on at best.

[binarysunrise]

The only thing I've thought of is that one of us could create a discussion thread at BGG, and get people to send us $ to one of our paypal accounts. WIth enough people, we could then upgrade from a deluxe bag level to the $500 design a bag level (you'd have to raise $416....plus fees).  I've thought about doing this on various KS projects where they have a super high pledge level that gives benefits to everyone.  Not sure how legal it is (it seems like a grey area) - but then again, people in other countries pool their $ to buy a multi-game level to save on international shipping.

[potluckgames]

 

Working on some limited edition metal dice.  I am worried that the sword looks a little weird once we make room for the number.  Can I get a second opinion?  Actually, one opinion was that even the sword pictured on the project page, in the pop goal, looks a little weird.

 

I was going to introduce these today, but I want to make sure the art is right first.

[griffinppatterson]

What if you were to add a little line to identify the tip of the sword?
something sort of like this:

[potluckgames]

I've tried that, but settled with making the other side of the tip visible.  Could I get some votes on which image looks the best?

[binarysunrise]

Hm. Of those 3, I guess I'd go with the original (the first one). But if the flame is the problem...could you try a new flaming sword design? (maybe upright, with flames on either side of a defined sword?) Or, actually, the Vorpal sword doesn't have to be in flames - just sharp, right? How confusing would something like this be:

I also thought of having the words "SNICKER-SNACK!" on a die with a sword, but that might not read when shrunken down :)

Or...a sword wrapped in a ribbon?

 

[griffinppatterson]

Personally, I think numero two is fine, but I asked around and most people couldnt really tell it was a sword, even though they knew that they were dice for an RPG game. A couple people said that 2 and 3 were bat wings.

[potluckgames]

Better?

[binarysunrise]

At least it was just bat wings. I was hoping no one thought it was a flaming cross. I think its fine though.

[griffinppatterson]

um... AWESOME! I'm gonna be honest, I just thought that it was a swinging sword, I didn't know that it was flaming. Also the shield looks so regal! That looks mint.

[potluckgames]

It was a swinging sword, but after multiple tests, people thought it was a bat wing-shaped sword, or a flaming sword.  So we embraced it.

 

 

[binarysunrise]

Much better. I love it!

[kc2dpt]

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 2:13:42 AM UTC-4, potluckgames wrote:

I like the idea of everyone paying a couple dollars and a new die is unlocked.  But I don't know how to do this.  If I just ask everyone to raise their bids, they will do so, unlock the die, and then decrease their bids.

If pledges decrease below a stretch goal target, doesn't that just re-lock that stretch goal? I don't see what the problem is. A stretch goal is unlocked only if the project funds above a certain target.

[potluckgames]

It's actually a lot more complicated than that.  I can't track hundreds of small increases.

[griffinppatterson]

So I didn't get to hear enough about these limited edition metal dice. Are you still thinking about offering some?

[potluckgames]

Yes, but we're redoing the art.

 

One brass sword, one aluminum shield.

[Lignum]

I've been out of the loop for quite the while as far as this group goes. I kind of spent all my ideas early and got lost in all the messages.

However, I saw the words "metal dice" in this latest update and was like "bwuuuh?!"
So. Metal dice. Gimme.

Seriously though. I love dice. So anything unique makes me squee

[potluckgames]

Here's the shot so far, but we're going to use the updated art.

[griffinppatterson]

With the player created dice being worked on, are there any you want us to help playtesting before you cut it down into a short list? Gotta give the backers credit, I've seen four or five that are fairly decent. A lot are massively complex though...

[potluckgames]

I might need some help narrowing it down.  Some of the complex ideas are good if you simplify them.  Which ones are your favorites?

[griffinppatterson]

Ignoring my own, I would have to say that my favourites are:
-Rogue and weaponmaster by James Valenti-Jordan
-Doppelgänger and cursed artifacts by Arne G
-Polymorphic equipment die by Corn Ixt
-Necromancer and orc by ken starton

What about you?