New dice ideas

[aril.teigseth]

My thoughts for a new dice:

Goes in the monster bag.

"Duel"-dice

Side 1: Duel an opponent, your choice. Looser looses 1 health

Side 2: Duel an opponent, randomly rolled for. Looser looses 1 health

Side 3: Duel an opponent, your choice. Winner can swap one blue treasure between combatants.

Side 4: Duel an opponent, randomly rolled for. Winner can swap one blue treasure between combatants.

Side 5: Duel an opponent, randomly rolled for. Winner can steal a red one-shot die.

Side 6: Duel an opponent, your choice. Winner can swap one artifact between combatants.

What do you think? Oh, and can´t draw with this Mac, help appreciated ;)

Devaliant

[kc2dpt]

loser

otherwise, a neat idea.

[Sam Coates]

 

I have wanted to incorporate a Duel mechanic, but I hadn't thought of tossing it into the monster bag.  I think that solves all of the problems I've encountered.  Good idea.

 

The swapping sounds fun, but might be a bit complex (and even overpowered).  Maybe the loser may give the winner any one die.  That way it wouldn't be crippling.

 

[griffinppatterson]

I think that the penalties should be a bit harsher. Would it be too mean to say steal a die instead of swap dice for the winner. Also, how would you convey these outcomes on the dice themselves? Lastly, how about a duel face where spells or one use dice aren't allowed?

[seb.borchert]

I´ve done some work with your ideas... Funny I thought about the same symbol for duel before I had seen Sam´s suggestion ;-)

I thought about not only to players fighting against each other, even more...

 

So what do you think?

[griffinppatterson]

so wait, is this a monster or a treasure? Also, the dice look great, the symbol on the right is number of players (as picked by active player) and the symbol on the left is steal a die?

[seb.borchert]

Sorry should be in the Monster bag so other color is right:

You´re right, left corner winner takes one die from loser (winner just get 1 die!), red symbol shows that potions/one use dice can´t be used, right corner shows how much players have to duell...

[Sam Coates]

Meaning more than one player is in the duel?  I don't get that icon.  I do like the idea of a royal rumble colosseum fight.

[aril.teigseth]

My idea with swapping dice instead of simply stealing one is that you may tweak yourself or hamper someone else, but not having someone duel the same bloke twice and trade for an artifact while he's hopelessly behind on the very same. If he lost the duel he will suffer one life anyway, so it's a slight advantage for you even if you don't profit massively from steal/ swap.

[griffinppatterson]

I personally think that the multiplayer duels are an excellent idea. The winner gets the die. Still think that it should be stealing a die. The winner would get to pick a die from any of the losing players. This way, more enemies would be made and more mean dice would be played. Also, I don't think players should take a wound for losing. They simply run the risk of losing their ace die.

[seb.borchert]

Yes, no wound for losing, but I would prefer the loser to chose which die he gives to winner...

 

@Sam: The Player Icon with the number shows how many pacticipants are involved in this "duel", like a coloseum ;-)

[Sam Coates]

A colosseum fight could be for an artifact.  When the colosseum comes up, anyone who wants to may join the fight, and the winner gets an artifact.  That would cause some tension.  If the leading player steps in alone, he might win the game.  However, the other players might be scared to even fight him.  So a couple would enter hoping to improve their odds.  It could be very thematic.

 

Also, the class expansion needs a theme/title other than just "Classes."  Dungeon Dice: Colosseum works for me.

[griffinppatterson]

I think the 4-player for artifact could be a great idea. You could represent it with a lock and key symbol (much like the double sword). And I guess I see why you might want the loser to pick the die to give away. Just specify that the die being given away is a treasure/artifact die. No giving away one use dice. That's a crap victory.

[kc2dpt]

Maybe the more you win by, the better die you get to take.

Win by 1 = red

Win by 2 = blue

Win by 3 = yellow

or something

[griffinppatterson]

What if no one has an artifact? It would make you feel sufficiently jipped. That said, I think we're onto something. Best so far I think is the exact way Seb drew it, except a four player battle has a locked chest + key symbol instead of a -die symbol. Also, is there an entry in the rulebook for it?

[seb.borchert]

You should give any dice, even a red one when you lose... don´t complicate it (or make house rules ;-))

 

This way for colosseum with locked chest as reward:

 

 

Something for the rules: Should the players build team, for example for the 3 player fight, can two players gang up against the other?

 

 

 

[seb.borchert]

Another idea for the reward in the colosseum: FAME!

 

 

[aril.teigseth]

I like the Colusseum die too, but I think a simple duel die has potensial aswell. Make both?

[griffinppatterson]

technically, an artifact rewards fame. Maybe the three way face might reward one fame and the artifact die reward an unlocked artifact. Did you not put a key on the fourway face because you don't like the idea of giving away an artifact? Also, what leads you to believe that a 1v1 duel dice and a Colosseum die are both needed? What, in your opinion would be on the 1v1 only die? Cos this Colosseum die looks badass

[griffinppatterson]

Also, wasn't a 5 player expansion thought of? Would you say that this die should be removed if playing 5player or would you just house rule it to mean all players? Also, what if you're not playing 4 player? this is a two player game? Just playing devils advocate... I would personally just throw it in for a four player game.

[seb.borchert]

Thought the same, but it would also work with 2 players (they have to duell at each side), 3 player (they have the chance of getting an artifact in a threesome), for 5 players, just houserule it or there can just be 4 players...

[seb.borchert]

@griffin: A level 3 Monster also gives fame... so you would keep the die at a foursome as trophy, that´s my idea with the second approach (red swords on foursome).

[griffinppatterson]

Yeah, I really like the idea of getting fame. In my mind, it's Artifact > Fame > Treasure > 1use. Just sort of sparked the idea that it could be 

1v1(-red) 1v1(-blue) 1v1(-blue)(no 1use) 3way(fame)(-red) 3way(fame)(-blue)(no 1use) 4way(lock&key)

This way, you'd get the fame for winning the 4way battle just like the 3way, but that fame comes in the form of an artifact. Nobody would lose a die, it would be a bloody fight to the death using everything possible.

If I could make what the die would look like in paint, I would. But I don't have that ability right now.

Some playtesting could really make this die smooth like butter. My only question now is... Do the rich get richer by making the poor poorer?

[seb.borchert]

For grifin, did some work for you ;-)

Thought potions are more feasible for 1vs1...

[griffinppatterson]

See, I think that's excellent. Does anyone see a problem with this? It might not look too pretty, maybe Sam has an idea as how to spice up the look. But unless somebody has a problem with the die, I'm gonna print it out and use it in my playtest.

[scottie4442]

just checking which one of the Colosseum dice that everyone wants to play test, I have included it in the playtest rules I made and want to get the right one in there.

[griffinppatterson]

A:

B:

C:

D:

                                       E: None of the Above

[kc2dpt]

Do we need that "no potions" symbol? Treasures are blue dice and potions are red dice. Why, if you won a treasure die, would anyone think the loser could give you a potion die?

Maybe the die faces could be:

red square (to indicate winner gets a potion die from one of the losers)

blue square (to indicate winner gets a treasure die from one of the losers)

yellow square (to indicate winner draws an artifact from the bag)

The tiny potion and treasure symbols are cute but since the dice are already color coded I wonder if it would be cleaner to just use colored squares instead.

[matias.korman]

The problem of this 1vs1 is that it makes the strong one stronger, and the weak weaker. How about if you duel someone, but others can also join and defend instead? or join in defense as well?

[scottie4442]

I can include all of the above if the group wants me to, just checking.  I would like to include all of the playtesting items as they come up, just to have a consolidated location for everything.

[Sam Coates]

Playtest whatever you want.  I'm leaning toward two symbols only.  One for a two-man duel and one for "anyone can jump in."  The best way to figure out three-way fights is to actually run a few.  I'll probably do that today.

 

One concern of mine - if we use the color red to mean fame, then the black could be viewed as "2 fame." 

[griffinppatterson]

The no potion die means that one use dice can't be used in the duel. I guess that it might be getting fairly complex, with it's current state. And you're right that black faces would imply two fame... Sam, what would your reward scheme be for these two faces?

[Sam Coates]

It needs to be simple, in my opinion.  Something like:

 

Duel - Two player fight, the winner gets 1 Fame.

Colosseum - Any number of players, the winner gets 1 artifact.

 

I kind of want to put the colosseum on an epic sized die, but it isn't that simple.  The expansions all need to be planned out before any are released, so they can easily and thematically build off of each other.  For example, if there were ever a symbol for Fame, then we would want to incorporate it now, rather than throwing it in in some later game.

 

Another example - I've considered a "fear" effect, where the opponent is unable to use one of their abilities.  However, if I include it in a later set, then I might wish I could go back and give it to the skeleton and the zombie.  I've considered making a scythe, but it would definitely need to execute.  However, I couldn't add such a scythe in the future unless I give the axe some different ability now.

 

Everything needs to work well together, and the basic set works very smoothly right now.

[griffinppatterson]

I really can't hate on that simplicity. And I can't agree enough with the synchronous game sets. My idea with the lightning spell was that a mage might be able to use it.

As for the duel die, are you thinking a 3/3 split on the probability of each face?

[Sam Coates]

No.  A colosseum fight would be rare.  If they were on the same die, maybe 1 in 6.

[griffinppatterson]

Some ideas for spells/abilities.

Silence (Monster Ability or one use die) - No spells can be used
Sleep (Monster Ability or one use die) - Miss turn
Mini (Spell) - reroll all dice above dice roll (Fizzle, Fizzle, 1,1,2,3)
Confuse - Flip all dice upside down (or Flip X dice upside down)
Berserk (Spell) - opposite of mini. Reroll all dice below dice roll (Fizzle, Fizzle, 4, 4, 5, 6)

[Sam Coates]

Sleep is good.  Missing a turn is a big deal, so forcing a REST can mitigate the damage.

[griffinppatterson]

It could simply be a one use die with force rest. Sort of a crap draw? Possibly Rest (Heal 1) / Rest (Heal 1) / Rest (Heal 2) / Rest (Heal 3) / Heal 1 / Heal 2

[griffinppatterson]

I'm also obsessed with the idea of a spell that turns dice upside down. Maybe a tremor that does this. If all six dice are turned upside down, it literally turns the tide of battle (4 dice giving 16 (6 5 3 2) becomes 12 (1 2 4 5)). I dunno. Might be crap. Dunno.

[seb.borchert]

Did some work for the die Sam imagines:

[Devaliant]

It´s clear to my group that this game is a bit much of "I roll my dice and you roll yours, then luck decides".

I would like to see dice giving interaction, and would suggest *gasp* another duel dice!

Since my previous one cleverly became a mass carnage Colosseum brawl, I would like to propose the following:

Goes in the red dice bag (one-time useable)

Useable instead of pulling a monster.

The user may only duel a player with MOST or MORE fame than himself. (Not entirely sure about the ruling here)

Reward should be hampering effect, as in stealing a treasure of choice, removing a level dice, perhaps even stealing a fame rewarding monster.

The purpose of this dice is to even out the playing field. The idea is that the player that obtained this die, uses it himself at a beneficial time or trades/ gives it to someone that can actually legally play it.  

sides:

Duel someone with more fame than yourself. Both choose gear prior to combat. Loser skips next turn.

Duel someone with more fame than yourself. Both choose gear prior to combat. Winner steals one treasure (not artifact) from loser.

Duel someone with more fame than yourself. Both choose gear prior to combat. Loser lose a hit point.

Duel someone with more fame than yourself. Both choose gear prior to combat. Loser lose two hit points.

Duel someone with more fame than yourself. Both choose gear prior to combat. Winner steals one fame rewarding monster yielding max one fame.

Duel someone with more fame than yourself. Both choose gear prior to combat. Winner steals one treasure (not artifact) from loser.

What do you think?

Dev

[Devaliant]

Some new one-use dies:

Blast.

sides:

fail

fail

Blast an opponents unused red die. Back to bag.

Blast an opponents unused red die. Back to bag.

Blast two of an opponents unused red dice, and another of your own unused red die.

Blast two of an opponents unused red dice, and another of your own unused red die.

Snare:

fail

fail

Tag an opponents or monsters blue treasure. This cannot be used his next encounter.

Tag an opponents or monsters blue treasure. This cannot be used his next encounter.

Weapons´ snare. No weapons can be used by heroes or monsters for a table turn.

Armor snare. No armor can be used by heroes or monsters for a table turn.

Clarification: 

For monsters this would translate to ability. To make it not only an attack die. 

If you use side 5 or 6 to hinder a hero, you will also suffer this effect your next turn.

Dev

[griffinppatterson]

I quite like snare. I think I'd use that more than curse

[Sam Coates]

Snare would be good if you could use it on artifacts too.  It's one-time use/spell, so not really overpowered.

[Devaliant]

How do you feel about table turn durations?

I was thinking another spell as well:

Amplify Ability:

fizzle

fizzle

fizzle

All abilities rolled can be used twice. Lasts until all players pulled a monster.

All level dice counts +1. Lasts until all players pulled a monster.

All treasure dice counts +1 Lasts until all players pulled a monster.

This spell can be used wisely when you see that other heroes need to rest, have little equipment or 2H weapons.

Dev

[binarysunrise]

Did we ever talk about having a Grim Reaper as a monster? I think it's a shame that heroes are the only ones to use the "Execute" weapon. What would happen if you came across a monster that could immediately defeat you? :)

[casu.gianluca]

While I find the idea charming, it looks as the closest thing to permadeath that could exist in this game ^^"

[binarysunrise]

While I find the idea charming, it looks as the closest thing to permadeath that could exist in this game ^^"

Well, that's a bit harsh. I was just thinking of automatically losing if your experience level was at or below the Grim Reaper's :)

(i.e. get a wound, don't get a treasure) 

[griffinppatterson]

The thing about grim is that if you roll something that would execute you, you would simply run away. Saying that's not a possibility for this die would add an unnecessary complication. I like the idea of incorporating other abilities that already exist into monsters, but some of them are simply not possible.

[binarysunrise]

But I'm assuming we'd eventually be working in a "no running away" rule - otherwise when the Epic Bosses are released, they wouldn't get played as often. But yeah, I think the goal should be to make the most use of the symbols we have....

[potluckgames]

In real life, I don't think I would attack Death unless I thought I had a really good chance of winning.

[binarysunrise]

Hm. Maybe it is too strong. Maybe I'll save it for a custom Epic Boss (what's more epic than Death??) And then the prize has to be huge, as you implied, to take on Death. Thematically - 3 hearts?  (I mean, killing death, you get life, right?)

But man, won't your friends hate you when 

a) you drag them into an epic battle, and 

b) you draw Death :)

[binarysunrise]

Ok, new idea. I had been toying around with the idea for the Dungeon Expansion of having locations that would either hinder or enhance monster powers. But it seems like the examples given are only giving monsters a set boon (like fire) at a given location.

So I was thinking of other ways that you could hinder a monster. What about a spell dice that has the specific weakness of a monster?

Salt kills Slime. Sun kills Ghost and Skelton. Weasel kills Cockatrice. Water Bucket kills Fire Elemental and Witch. Holy Water kills Demon and Zombie. Bug Spray kills Spider and Asp.

Doesn't work for all monsters, but could be worth a 1/6 chance in the right situation.

[Devaliant]

I GENUINELY laughed at this post :D

Who adds a bug spray in a monster battling game??

I´m SO printing this die to use in my game!

Dev

[Devaliant]

And I´m printing Death too, I sincerely liked him for randomness and uniqueity (new word?)

Dev

[binarysunrise]

Any ideas for a Dungeon Dice: Damsels & Scoundrels Expansion set?

It'd be a new bag of dice - victims of monsters. As a reward for defeating certain monsters, instead of a potion, treasure, or artifact, you could rescue one of their victims.  The bag could contain princesses, princes, queens, kings, rogues, etc. Princes (and princesses) could aid you in fights as a sidekick. Kings and queens could give you fame. Rogues could steal one of your dice and run away with it.

[casu.gianluca]

I like what I hear, but how do you activate it? Okay, I arrive to the monster... I Roll a die.... no... does not make sense.....

Okay, how about this?

The game is about gaining fame and become the king, right? So quests are absolutely needed.

When your turn start you request a quest . If you decide for a quest you will roll the monster as usual, but you will roll it twice and choose the WORST result ( Ie, you get a wolf, you roll twice and get a 2 and a 4 you will fight the 4).

Seen that this is a quest you will not be able to  refuse it once it is rolled AND you will not be able to ask for help (Who's the hero here? Hmmmm?)

You then roll a die and you get one of those results

1 Nothing

2 Princess

3 Merchant

4 Wizard

5 Scoundrel

6 Nothing

If you get a 1 and a 6 you have no open quest for the day and you pass ( since you applied for the quest you were not resting and as such do not get back eventual lost wounds), 

Let's see the others:

Princess: If you roll the princess and you win you collect  further point of fame plus other usual prizes

Merchant:If you roll the Merchants and you win you collect a random item from the item bag plus other usual prizes

Wizard:If you roll the Wizard and you win you collect  a random one use item from the one use item bag plus other usual prizes

Scoundrel:If you roll the Scoundrel you have a sidekick that will join you in this quest lured by the possible gain. To represent this, add another level die for this fight. If you win collect prizes as usual. BUT, if you lose the scoundrel flees the field and steals one of your items (randomly determined)

What if you lose? Would it be too harsh to lose a fame point for the shame?

[griffinppatterson]

I like the quest die idea. Simply as an added challenge for those who think they are all that. One die that stays out. You may roll it on your turn if you like.

1: horde mode - you hear of a horde in the east and you want to whittle down their numbers. Draw a monster and fight that monster. If you win, you may choose to fight again. If chosen, roll level again and fight (you may only choose to run and finish before level is rolled). You may keep fighting as long as you want and keep gaining rewards, but anytime you lose, you lose all rewards gained by the horde and take a wound. Rewards gained may only be gained after all fights are done, not after each battle.
2. Cronies - draw a monster and roll its level. Then draw two more monsters and roll them. Fight the main monster alongside his cronies. His cronies however are -1 level (always at least level 1). Winning this battle nets you am additional fame.
3. Treasure trove - it's dim. It's dark. And they know you're here. Draw and roll a monster, you cannot run away. You fight the monster regularly, but the monsters have the high ground, allowing them to reroll any and all dice once to gain the better score. If you win, you gain double treasure.
4. It's an ambush! - draw and roll a monster. During the fight, each player may choose to roll a hero level die to add to the monsters combat roll. If you win the battle you may steal one piece of equipment from anyone who backstabbed you.
5. Divine sight - fight your next monster normally except that you may not use any of your abilities. Upon defeating the monster, you may choose which treasure you draw from the monsters reward bag (not choose which treasure type)
6. Taunt - draw a monster and, instead of rolling, fight the highest level monster. If you lose, lose one level (not exp) as well as take one wound.

I think this will be a great challenge for the daring. What do you guys think?

[casu.gianluca]

A bit hardcore, but might be a good darwinian system for power players control. I do not see any difficulties in keeping them both.

Let's start a "Quest" die list

Till now we have:

1 Rescue missions

2 Epic quests

3 ?