omniyat square =Re: [Dubai Property Investors] Omniyat Gemini
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007
May 15, 2009, 4:08:12 PM5/15/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
same arm twisting by omniyat & bad treatment of investors even though they fail
to delver single project
On 5/13/09, goldy ram <gold...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Investors, plz join & make a group for the subjected project then possible to solve our problems as "Rera to review 27 projects in Dubai" published in 11 May 2009.
http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Real_Estate_Property/10312791.html
A project can be cancelled by Rera, the developer can request a project be cancelled if the investors are paid or there are no investors. A project can also be cancelled if enough investors complain.
Since developer already delayed much above project supposed to be ready by 30 june 2009 but delayed much now to be ready by 30 DEC 2010.
And developer project progress seems nothing but insisting & forcing us to deposit further installments as per their set plan but project completion statistically still uncertain to complete by 30 DEC 2010.
BR
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doc
May 16, 2009, 1:18:39 PM5/16/09
to Dubai Property Investors
For the Square Project by Omniyat , we should form a group and bring
all investors together. They are violating the SPA by demanding the
PDC's before handover and that the PDC would be dated from the date of
handover which is in conflict with their clause that cheques would be
deposited three months after the handover.
It is a pity that no investors has raised their voice against their
grave attitude and i have resisted in my own capacity to their such
demands.
On May 16, 1:08 am, 007 <ifthikar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> same arm twisting by omniyat & bad treatment of investors even though they
> fail
> to delver single project
>
> > *A project can be cancelled by Rera, the developer can request a project
> > **
>
> - Show quoted text -
all investors together. They are violating the SPA by demanding the
PDC's before handover and that the PDC would be dated from the date of
handover which is in conflict with their clause that cheques would be
deposited three months after the handover.
It is a pity that no investors has raised their voice against their
grave attitude and i have resisted in my own capacity to their such
demands.
On May 16, 1:08 am, 007 <ifthikar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> same arm twisting by omniyat & bad treatment of investors even though they
> fail
> to delver single project
>
> On 5/13/09, goldy ram <goldh2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Investors, plz join & make a group for the subjected project then possible
> > to solve our problems as "*Rera to review 27 projects in Dubai"* published
>
>
>
>
>
> > Investors, plz join & make a group for the subjected project then possible
> > *A project can be cancelled by Rera, the developer can request a project
> > be cancelled if the investors are paid or there are no investors. A project
> > can also be cancelled if enough investors complain.*
> > **
> > Since developer already delayed much above project supposed to be ready by
> > 30 june 2009 but delayed much now to be ready by 30 DEC 2010.
>
> > And developer project progress seems nothing but insisting & forcing us to
> > deposit further installments as per their set plan but project completion
> > statistically still uncertain to complete by 30 DEC 2010.
>
> > BR
>
> > ------------------------------
> > 30 june 2009 but delayed much now to be ready by 30 DEC 2010.
>
> > And developer project progress seems nothing but insisting & forcing us to
> > deposit further installments as per their set plan but project completion
> > statistically still uncertain to complete by 30 DEC 2010.
>
> > BR
>
> > MSN Battles We pitch one stalwart against the other and give you the power.
> > Who will you vote for? Share photos while you chat with Windows Live
> > Messenger. <http://battles.in.msn.com/>- Hide quoted text -
> > Who will you vote for? Share photos while you chat with Windows Live
>
> - Show quoted text -
fa2...@gmail.com
May 16, 2009, 3:27:56 PM5/16/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Please do not give post dated cheques to any one in the UAE. If ur check bounces u can be put in jail. The authorities will put u in first and then talk.
Regards,
Farah
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-----Original Message-----
From: doc <valika...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 10:18:39
To: Dubai Property Investors<dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: omniyat square =Re: [Dubai Property Investors] Omniyat Gemini
Regards,
Farah
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-----Original Message-----
From: doc <valika...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 10:18:39
To: Dubai Property Investors<dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: omniyat square =Re: [Dubai Property Investors] Omniyat Gemini
simo...@gmail.com
May 16, 2009, 3:53:04 PM5/16/09
to Dubai investors
Farah,
Their SPA clearly mentions that they will deposit cheques after three months of hand over, therefore if hand over has not happened they should not deposit the cheques, and if they do, they still can't put you inside because they have no right to deposit. I don't think this country has totally no law.
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:27:56
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
Their SPA clearly mentions that they will deposit cheques after three months of hand over, therefore if hand over has not happened they should not deposit the cheques, and if they do, they still can't put you inside because they have no right to deposit. I don't think this country has totally no law.
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-----Original Message-----
From: fa2...@gmail.com
-----Original Message-----
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:27:56
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
fa2...@gmail.com
May 16, 2009, 4:07:24 PM5/16/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
If they do deposit it let's say exactly 3 months after hand over and u don't have money in ur account for any reason, U lost a job god forbid or any other reason the economy world over is bad. If the cheque bounces uve had it u can be arrested no questions asked. Try to get out of this requirement. Its to better safe than sorry. I can only recommend the choice is urs but recently I've seen too many people put in jail or on the exist control list due to post dated cheques. Also they can't deposit it anyway before the date on the cheque.
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:53:04
To: Dubai investors<dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
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-----Original Message-----
From: simo...@gmail.com
-----Original Message-----
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:53:04
To: Dubai investors<dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
Aadil Ayob
May 16, 2009, 3:34:44 PM5/16/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Hi, are there any investors in this project, next to greens and emaar business park,
THE ONYX FOR DEVELOPMENT BY ISHRAAQA sold by coldwell banker.
Plz get in touch with me
Aadil Ayob
0508734154
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-----Original Message-----
From: fa2...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:27:56
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
THE ONYX FOR DEVELOPMENT BY ISHRAAQA sold by coldwell banker.
Plz get in touch with me
Aadil Ayob
0508734154
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-----Original Message-----
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 19:27:56
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
NigelP...@aol.com
May 16, 2009, 11:16:40 PM5/16/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Farah,
Their SPA clearly mentions that they will deposit cheques after three months of hand over, therefore if hand over has not happened they should not deposit the cheques, and if they do, they still can't put you inside because they have no right to deposit. I don't think this country has totally no law.
Their SPA clearly mentions that they will deposit cheques after three months of hand over, therefore if hand over has not happened they should not deposit the cheques, and if they do, they still can't put you inside because they have no right to deposit. I don't think this country has totally no law.
I know a family who went to the airport to check-in for
a holiday, once at the airport the husband was not allowed to leave the country,
so they had to abandon the holiday costing £10K.
He had a travel ban against is passport, but no one
from the police had been in touch with him prior to him wanting to leave the
country.
He had sold a property for a friend who lived abroad,
with a power of attorney, the buyer wanted to get out of the deal, because the
market had crashed, so the buyers lawyer who was well connected, made a case to
the police that the property had been sold fraudulently and ignored the power of
attorney document he had in his file and got the police to issue a travel
ban.
The police did this without even asking any questions
from the husband they were placing the travel ban on and it cost the
innocent party 100,000 AED in lawyers fees and two weeks before he got his
passport back.
So while the country may have laws, they can be bent
and twisted depending on how well you are connected, which means basically
for the people that are connected there are no laws. How many developers are
connected and not having to comply with laws 8 & 13 and when it looks like
the may have to adhere to law 13 and return 70% of investors money, they
bring out another law (law9) to make sure they don't have to pay out any money,
again isn't this akin to a country that has no
law.
Muhammad Ali
May 17, 2009, 12:51:04 AM5/17/09
to fa2...@gmail.com, dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
No way on the earth please GIVE ANY PDC. Like i have been helping many group members including Farrah i am also helping non group members who r non hgroup now becz hthey r behind the bars becz of PDCs. one of our members is even now suffering from a PDC SECURITY chq which under no circumstances could be presented but the poor chap is in trouble now. although he will win the case but bars come before the case.
SAY NO TO PDC
Ali
-original message-
Subject: Re: omniyat square =Re: [Dubai Property Investors] Omniyat Gemini
SAY NO TO PDC
Ali
-original message-
Subject: Re: omniyat square =Re: [Dubai Property Investors] Omniyat Gemini
From: fa2...@gmail.com
Date: 17/05/2009 12:07 am
If they do deposit it let's say exactly 3 months after hand over and u don't have money in ur account for any reason, U lost a job god forbid or any other reason the economy world over is bad. If the cheque bounces uve had it u can be arrested no questions asked. Try to get out of this requirement. Its to better safe than sorry. I can only recommend the choice is urs but recently I've seen too many people put in jail or on the exist control list due to post dated cheques. Also they can't deposit it anyway before the date on the cheque.
Date: 17/05/2009 12:07 am
If they do deposit it let's say exactly 3 months after hand over and u don't have money in ur account for any reason, U lost a job god forbid or any other reason the economy world over is bad. If the cheque bounces uve had it u can be arrested no questions asked. Try to get out of this requirement. Its to better safe than sorry. I can only recommend the choice is urs but recently I've seen too many people put in jail or on the exist control list due to post dated cheques. Also they can't deposit it anyway before the date on the cheque.
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-----Original Message-----
To: Dubai investors<dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: omniyat square =Re: [Dubai Property Investors] Omniyat Gemini
Farah,
Their SPA clearly mentions that they will deposit cheques after three months of hand over, therefore if hand over has not happened they should not deposit the cheques, and if they do, they still can't put you inside because they have no right to deposit. I don't think this country has totally no law.
Their SPA clearly mentions that they will deposit cheques after three months of hand over, therefore if hand over has not happened they should not deposit the cheques, and if they do, they still can't put you inside because they have no right to deposit. I don't think this country has totally no law.
Asif Kamil
May 17, 2009, 1:28:15 AM5/17/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Hi Farah & Nigel ,
I spoke to Amit in Reliance office yesterday and inquired about the 2nd news letter posted recently on their web site. He wanted me to visit Dubai to discuss further on the payment plan (construction based ) which now they are offering to change.
He was insisting me to sign an agreement/contract with them for future payments etc.. BTW they have still not provided any contract to us , we just have original payment receipts.
I will never proceed without your advice. Let me know if you still feel this is an another trick? once we sign the agreement they can tell RERA that are willing to go ahead with the project and not interested in cancellation. There case will become more stronger!!!
Thanks
Regards
Asif Kamil
What can you do with the new Windows Live? Find out
I spoke to Amit in Reliance office yesterday and inquired about the 2nd news letter posted recently on their web site. He wanted me to visit Dubai to discuss further on the payment plan (construction based ) which now they are offering to change.
He was insisting me to sign an agreement/contract with them for future payments etc.. BTW they have still not provided any contract to us , we just have original payment receipts.
I will never proceed without your advice. Let me know if you still feel this is an another trick? once we sign the agreement they can tell RERA that are willing to go ahead with the project and not interested in cancellation. There case will become more stronger!!!
Thanks
Regards
Asif Kamil
What can you do with the new Windows Live? Find out
Mawj M
May 17, 2009, 10:15:56 AM5/17/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Hi Dear co-investors: although we must fight for our rights and our money in UAE,but the same time
we have to think and to start some work against Dubai Government internationally.
why?
I am sure that our case will solve only in international courts(not in one in different courts and different countries and in different ways).as collectively not one by one.
- From day one till now the Dubai Government takes direct responsibility for all invested money
by foreigners in real estate .This government started the freehold fraudulently ,created the master
developers(all of them owned by big Shaikhs from the Ruler of Dubai to other shaikhs).
- This government sold the desert land for billions and billions $.(our money)
- This government allowed and encouraged the hundred and hundreds (more then 2000 of them)
sub developers and contractors and so on to operate in the country where was no property laws
and no proper property practices.(in lawlessness totally).
- This government and their officials participated in all so called off -plan projects launch ceremonies and promoted nationally and internationally .
- This govrnment was and is a prtner and dercet benefciery of all fraduelant practices fo master
and sub developers.
- This government changed their own so called laws and regulations from Sep2008 to so called law
9, to protect only and only the developers (it means the master developers or the government)
the protectionism in very very uncivilized and feudal ways.
- This govrment has breached majority international laws ,conventions and treaties of trade
and business.
we must talk to internationally reputed , recognised and famus lawyers ,I am sure there many
of them just waiting to bring UAE government to international justice.lots of laywers just wish to be
asked to take this cases. so we can do it in NETHERLANd,UK ,USA ,CANADA,FRANCE , GERMANY
OR EVEN IN ISRAILLY COURTS.
I know some of us don't want to mentioned the govrnment of Dubai ,but the only way will lift to
us will to sue this government and to recover our money with all losses.
Thanks Nick
we have to think and to start some work against Dubai Government internationally.
why?
I am sure that our case will solve only in international courts(not in one in different courts and different countries and in different ways).as collectively not one by one.
- From day one till now the Dubai Government takes direct responsibility for all invested money
by foreigners in real estate .This government started the freehold fraudulently ,created the master
developers(all of them owned by big Shaikhs from the Ruler of Dubai to other shaikhs).
- This government sold the desert land for billions and billions $.(our money)
- This government allowed and encouraged the hundred and hundreds (more then 2000 of them)
sub developers and contractors and so on to operate in the country where was no property laws
and no proper property practices.(in lawlessness totally).
- This government and their officials participated in all so called off -plan projects launch ceremonies and promoted nationally and internationally .
- This govrnment was and is a prtner and dercet benefciery of all fraduelant practices fo master
and sub developers.
- This government changed their own so called laws and regulations from Sep2008 to so called law
9, to protect only and only the developers (it means the master developers or the government)
the protectionism in very very uncivilized and feudal ways.
- This govrment has breached majority international laws ,conventions and treaties of trade
and business.
we must talk to internationally reputed , recognised and famus lawyers ,I am sure there many
of them just waiting to bring UAE government to international justice.lots of laywers just wish to be
asked to take this cases. so we can do it in NETHERLANd,UK ,USA ,CANADA,FRANCE , GERMANY
OR EVEN IN ISRAILLY COURTS.
I know some of us don't want to mentioned the govrnment of Dubai ,but the only way will lift to
us will to sue this government and to recover our money with all losses.
Thanks Nick
From: NigelP...@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 23:16:40 -0400
Subject: Re: omniyat square =Re: [Dubai Property Investors] Omniyat Gemini
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NigelP...@aol.com
May 17, 2009, 10:33:05 AM5/17/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Hi Farah & Nigel ,
I spoke to Amit in Reliance office yesterday and inquired about the 2nd news letter posted recently on their web site. He wanted me to visit Dubai to discuss further on the payment plan (construction based ) which now they are offering to change.
He was insisting me to sign an agreement/contract with them for future payments etc.. BTW they have still not provided any contract to us , we just have original payment receipts.
I will never proceed without your advice. Let me know if you still feel this is an another trick? once we sign the agreement they can tell RERA that are willing to go ahead with the project and not interested in cancellation. There case will become more stronger!!!
Thanks
Regards
Asif Kamil
I spoke to Amit in Reliance office yesterday and inquired about the 2nd news letter posted recently on their web site. He wanted me to visit Dubai to discuss further on the payment plan (construction based ) which now they are offering to change.
He was insisting me to sign an agreement/contract with them for future payments etc.. BTW they have still not provided any contract to us , we just have original payment receipts.
I will never proceed without your advice. Let me know if you still feel this is an another trick? once we sign the agreement they can tell RERA that are willing to go ahead with the project and not interested in cancellation. There case will become more stronger!!!
Thanks
Regards
Asif Kamil
They need to call investors in from each of their 17
projects that have not started in over a year and then we can see how many of us
have confidence in this lying developer, they have failed to pay any of our
money into the escrow accounts and the only reason the have 17 sites is because
they bought them with investors money that should have been paid into the escrow
accounts. They went on and bought other plots with our money from Nakheel in the
Waterfront, but not in the name of Reliance, how can we trust these
people.
fa2...@gmail.com
May 17, 2009, 2:12:55 PM5/17/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Please do not sign any SPA's of the developer if u need to take them to court tomorrow this will be a plus in ur benefit. Most receipts do not have payment plans or anything showing that u have agreed to a particular payment plan. This is just an example of one major points in ur favor.
Regards,
Farah
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From: NigelP...@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:33:05 EDT
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: Reliance Tower 8
Asif Kamil
May 17, 2009, 1:09:10 PM5/17/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Yeah I agree what you have written about the Reliance . Lets hope we can get 70% of Investors to file a petition for cancellation.
From: NigelP...@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:33:05 -0400
From: NigelP...@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:33:05 -0400
Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: Reliance Tower 8
Asif Kamil
May 18, 2009, 1:02:09 AM5/18/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Hi Farah,
Thanks for your comments. We had signed initially duplicate receipts also with payment plans with good intensions without knowing what will happened after 1 year and things will change so drastically. You thing now we are in a weaker positions???? but there is no contract yet.
Rgds
Asif
Thanks for your comments. We had signed initially duplicate receipts also with payment plans with good intensions without knowing what will happened after 1 year and things will change so drastically. You thing now we are in a weaker positions???? but there is no contract yet.
Rgds
Asif
Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: Reliance Tower 8
Please do not sign any SPA's of the developer if u need to take them to court tomorrow this will be a plus in ur benefit. Most receipts do not have payment plans or anything showing that u have agreed to a particular payment plan. This is just an example of one major points in ur favor.
Regards,
FarahEmpower your Business with BlackBerry® and Mobile Solutions from Etisalat
From: NigelP...@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:33:05 EDT
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: Reliance Tower 8
Hi Farah & Nigel ,
I spoke to Amit in Reliance office yesterday and inquired about the 2nd news letter posted recently on their web site. He wanted me to visit Dubai to discuss further on the payment plan (construction based ) which now they are offering to change.
He was insisting me to sign an agreement/contract with them for future payments etc.. BTW they have still not provided any contract to us , we just have original payment receipts.
I will never proceed without your advice. Let me know if you still feel this is an another trick? once we sign the agreement they can tell RERA that are willing to go ahead with the project and not interested in cancellation. There case will become more stronger!!!
Thanks
Regards
Asif Kamil
I spoke to Amit in Reliance office yesterday and inquired about the 2nd news letter posted recently on their web site. He wanted me to visit Dubai to discuss further on the payment plan (construction based ) which now they are offering to change.
He was insisting me to sign an agreement/contract with them for future payments etc.. BTW they have still not provided any contract to us , we just have original payment receipts.
I will never proceed without your advice. Let me know if you still feel this is an another trick? once we sign the agreement they can tell RERA that are willing to go ahead with the project and not interested in cancellation. There case will become more stronger!!!
Thanks
Regards
Asif Kamil
They need to call investors in from each of their 17 projects that have not started in over a year and then we can see how many of us have confidence in this lying developer, they have failed to pay any of our money into the escrow accounts and the only reason the have 17 sites is because they bought them with investors money that should have been paid into the escrow accounts. They went on and bought other plots with our money from Nakheel in the Waterfront, but not in the name of Reliance, how can we trust these people.
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tajmahalr...@gmail.com
May 18, 2009, 3:45:44 AM5/18/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Hi Rakesh and Farah
Can we name and shame devlopers who are playing crooked games with us. Secondly please can you start registering property for Abu Dhabi as there are many investors like my self who bought there and want to work with this group as Nigel has made it a very active, we can see results and know that this Group will leave a mark in the U.A.E.
Regards
Eliyas
Can we name and shame devlopers who are playing crooked games with us. Secondly please can you start registering property for Abu Dhabi as there are many investors like my self who bought there and want to work with this group as Nigel has made it a very active, we can see results and know that this Group will leave a mark in the U.A.E.
Regards
Eliyas
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From: Mawj M
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 14:15:56 +0000
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: omniyat square =Re: [Dubai Property Investors] Omniyat Gemini
Muhammad Ali
May 18, 2009, 4:17:32 AM5/18/09
to tajmahalr...@gmail.com, dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Eliyas
Thanks for the appreciation. Abu Dhabi and Ajman are definitly on the radar but we are thinking to go step by step. Lets first have a system in place alongwith active members participation and achieve results. Then only we can look into expanding horizons. However in the mean time maybe we can start preparing ground work for other emirates.
ali
_________________________________________________________________
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Thanks for the appreciation. Abu Dhabi and Ajman are definitly on the radar but we are thinking to go step by step. Lets first have a system in place alongwith active members participation and achieve results. Then only we can look into expanding horizons. However in the mean time maybe we can start preparing ground work for other emirates.
ali
-original message-
Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: shame
From: tajmahalr...@gmail.com
Date: 18/05/2009 11:43 am
Hi Rakesh and Farah
Can we name and shame devlopers who are playing crooked games with us. Secondly please can you start registering property for Abu Dhabi as there are many investors like my self who bought there and want to work with this group as Nigel has made it a very active, we can see results and know that this Group will leave a mark in the U.A.E.
Regards
Eliyas
Empower your Business with BlackBerry® and Mobile Solutions from Etisalat
Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: shame
From: tajmahalr...@gmail.com
Date: 18/05/2009 11:43 am
Hi Rakesh and Farah
Can we name and shame devlopers who are playing crooked games with us. Secondly please can you start registering property for Abu Dhabi as there are many investors like my self who bought there and want to work with this group as Nigel has made it a very active, we can see results and know that this Group will leave a mark in the U.A.E.
Regards
Eliyas
Empower your Business with BlackBerry® and Mobile Solutions from Etisalat
Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
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im...@premiers.ae
May 18, 2009, 4:07:16 AM5/18/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Hi Rakesh,
It was pleasure talking to you. Can you please forward me a sample of petition.
It was pleasure talking to you. Can you please forward me a sample of petition.
Regards
Imran Farooq
CEO
Premiers
Tel: 9714-397-9999 Ext 300
Fax: 9714-3973706
im...@premiers.ae
www.premiers.ae
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To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: Reliance Tower 8
fa2...@gmail.com
May 18, 2009, 2:34:58 PM5/18/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Sure.
Regards,
Farah
Regards,
Farah
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From: tajmahalr...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 07:45:44 +0000
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: shame
ra.b...@gmail.com
May 18, 2009, 3:53:46 PM5/18/09
to Dubai Property Investors
ITS TOTALLY WRONG WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, DO YOU WANT ISRAELI COURTS TO
SUE DUBAI GOV.? HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND....
SUE DUBAI GOV.? HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND....
Mawj M
May 23, 2009, 9:08:25 PM5/23/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Interesting Article by Sunday Times
From: NigelP...@aol.com
(Giovanni Simeone)
Dubai City
John Arlidge
Like Las Vegas, Dubai is so odd, you never forget the first time you arrive.
For me, it was a November morning in 2003. I drove past the dredgers
creating canals in the desert that would soon become the marina, and ended
up at the Hilton. The hotel was so far from the airport, on an isolated
strip of beach, I wondered whether I was in Dubai at all, or had drifted off
into Abu Dhabi or Saudi Arabia.
Last week I went back, on the latest of more than 20 visits. The good news is that Dubai has grown so rapidly, you cannot even see the Hilton any more. It's hidden behind the sandstone towers of the Jumeirah Beach Residence, which are among the thousands of skyscrapers that confirm Dubai as the fastest-growing city in human history.
The bad news is that the economic model that got Dubai so far so fast has run into the sand. The property sector has collapsed. Construction has all but stopped, and prices fell by 41% in the first quarter of this year, according to the real estate consultancy Colliers International.
Behind the raw data are people: people like David and Leanne. David, 33, set up a firm offering consultancy services to contractors. Leanne, 28, got a job in human resources for a local contractor. Last year, they bought their first property: a three-bedroom, £500,000 flat in the marina. Almost a year on, they are about to do something they never imagined they would: run away.
Any day now, the couple — who don’t want to reveal their full names because, under Dubai’s strict bankruptcy laws, debtors can be jailed simply for bouncing a cheque — will head to the airport with their four children and leave. Leanne has been laid off and the contractor David’s firm works for hasn’t paid him a dirham since December. The flat is worth 25% less than they paid for it, pushing them into negative equity, and they are down to the last of their savings. “Our lawyer told us that, as debtors go to prison here, we should leave while we can and negotiate from a position of strength abroad,” Leanne says.
The shop windows in the upscale Jumeirah district confirm that David and Leanne are not alone. Classified-ad notice boards are chock-full of fliers for yard sales being held by expatriates who are skipping town. Even pets are up for grabs. “Free to good home,” it says above the photos of beloved dogs and cats in the window of the Park’n’Shop supermarket on Al Wasl Road.
It wasn’t meant to be this way. In 2000, the emirate’s leader, Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid al-Maktoum, invited westerners to move to Dubai. The city state’s unique selling point? Buy a house and you’ll get a resident’s visa. In return for putting up with living in a sandpit the size of Kent, where temperatures reach 50C in summer, westerners would help to create the Singapore of the Middle East — and get filthy rich along the way.
It started well enough. Dubai began to build itself onto the map. There was the Palm Jumeirah, the World — 300 reclaimed islands in the Gulf, arranged in the shape of a map of the planet — and the Burj Dubai, the world’s tallest skyscraper. Each time I visited, Dubai seemed to have doubled in size.
Property prices quadrupled between 2002 and 2008. Anyone who bought and sold between 2000 and July last year — that includes the Chelsea footballer Joe Cole and Simon Cowell, the creator of the X Factor, who both flipped villas on the Palm Jumeirah — made a killing. As one British investor puts it: “When times were good, you couldn’t lose. Prices went only one way: up.”
Anyone who bought in the past year, however, is in limbo or nursing a loss. Saeed Gupta, 33, an Indian-born Londoner, started dabbling in property when he moved to Dubai five years ago to manage an upscale boutique in the Mall of the Emirates. Last year, he put down deposits totalling £50,000 on two flats in new inland developments.
The developer says it will finish the first project in time for him to move in next year, but it is unlikely to finish the second. It will be 18 months before he gets his deposit back — without interest. He’s worried he might not see his money at all: “What if the developer goes bust in the next 18 months?”
Last week I went back, on the latest of more than 20 visits. The good news is that Dubai has grown so rapidly, you cannot even see the Hilton any more. It's hidden behind the sandstone towers of the Jumeirah Beach Residence, which are among the thousands of skyscrapers that confirm Dubai as the fastest-growing city in human history.
The bad news is that the economic model that got Dubai so far so fast has run into the sand. The property sector has collapsed. Construction has all but stopped, and prices fell by 41% in the first quarter of this year, according to the real estate consultancy Colliers International.
Behind the raw data are people: people like David and Leanne. David, 33, set up a firm offering consultancy services to contractors. Leanne, 28, got a job in human resources for a local contractor. Last year, they bought their first property: a three-bedroom, £500,000 flat in the marina. Almost a year on, they are about to do something they never imagined they would: run away.
Any day now, the couple — who don’t want to reveal their full names because, under Dubai’s strict bankruptcy laws, debtors can be jailed simply for bouncing a cheque — will head to the airport with their four children and leave. Leanne has been laid off and the contractor David’s firm works for hasn’t paid him a dirham since December. The flat is worth 25% less than they paid for it, pushing them into negative equity, and they are down to the last of their savings. “Our lawyer told us that, as debtors go to prison here, we should leave while we can and negotiate from a position of strength abroad,” Leanne says.
The shop windows in the upscale Jumeirah district confirm that David and Leanne are not alone. Classified-ad notice boards are chock-full of fliers for yard sales being held by expatriates who are skipping town. Even pets are up for grabs. “Free to good home,” it says above the photos of beloved dogs and cats in the window of the Park’n’Shop supermarket on Al Wasl Road.
It wasn’t meant to be this way. In 2000, the emirate’s leader, Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid al-Maktoum, invited westerners to move to Dubai. The city state’s unique selling point? Buy a house and you’ll get a resident’s visa. In return for putting up with living in a sandpit the size of Kent, where temperatures reach 50C in summer, westerners would help to create the Singapore of the Middle East — and get filthy rich along the way.
It started well enough. Dubai began to build itself onto the map. There was the Palm Jumeirah, the World — 300 reclaimed islands in the Gulf, arranged in the shape of a map of the planet — and the Burj Dubai, the world’s tallest skyscraper. Each time I visited, Dubai seemed to have doubled in size.
Property prices quadrupled between 2002 and 2008. Anyone who bought and sold between 2000 and July last year — that includes the Chelsea footballer Joe Cole and Simon Cowell, the creator of the X Factor, who both flipped villas on the Palm Jumeirah — made a killing. As one British investor puts it: “When times were good, you couldn’t lose. Prices went only one way: up.”
Anyone who bought in the past year, however, is in limbo or nursing a loss. Saeed Gupta, 33, an Indian-born Londoner, started dabbling in property when he moved to Dubai five years ago to manage an upscale boutique in the Mall of the Emirates. Last year, he put down deposits totalling £50,000 on two flats in new inland developments.
The developer says it will finish the first project in time for him to move in next year, but it is unlikely to finish the second. It will be 18 months before he gets his deposit back — without interest. He’s worried he might not see his money at all: “What if the developer goes bust in the next 18 months?”
What’s gone wrong? Dubai was the ultimate property bubble. Sheikh Mohammed
wanted to build 1m new homes in 15 years — an epically extravagant plan,
even in the boom years. The problem was that the foundations of the property
sector, like some of the developments themselves, were not secure. Chris
Dommett, who runs the Dubai operation of the mortgage advisory company John
Charcol, says the market was “a classic pyramid scheme”, and unsustainable —
though, he adds, nobody foresaw prices falling as sharply as they have done.
From 2000 until last year, developers used borrowed money and deposits raised from off-plan sales to fund razzle-dazzle schemes. Lax regulation meant developers could take deposits before they had even broken ground, and even use deposits taken from buyers in one development to fund the construction of other developments.
With deposits as low as 10% of the purchase price, speculators piled in, reserving entire floors of new developments and flipping all the flats for a higher price before they had to pay the next staged payment. The more they sold, the higher prices rose. The higher the prices, the more they bought. Round and round the fizzy cycle went.
Then, when the credit crunch hit last year, the economy turned on a dirham. Private developers suddenly found they could not borrow from banks. The Dubai government, which controls Nakheel, Dubai Holding and Emaar — which together account for more than 80% of all property development in Dubai — could not borrow on the wholesale markets. With almost no oil of its own, Dubai depends on borrowed money and support from the federal government, largely bankrolled by Abu Dhabi.
Long-term investors who had bought off-plan homes that were almost finished could no longer borrow from the banks, so missed their final payments and defaulted. Spooked by falling prices, new investors walked away from deals, forfeiting their deposits. The result, as Dommett puts it, is that the housing market has “effectively stopped”.
Developers who once rushed to launch a project every few months are racing to abandon them. Peter Riddoch, the Scots-born boss of Damac, Dubai’s largest private-sector developer, says: “We won’t launch any new product in Dubai in the next year.”
Greedy speculators, fast-talking developers and the global slump are not the only factors behind the bust. Many investors were foolish. Gupta, for instance, admits he was suckered into believing prices would rise for ever, and brushed off concerns about Dubai’s lack of legal or regulatory framework. The court system is in its infancy, leaving investors unsure what rights they have if developers go bust.
Was Dubai’s desert dream a mirage, or can the government sort out the mess? And when, if ever, should investors think about re-entering the market?
“Dubai property is not a busted flush,” says Andy Dukes, an IT entrepreneur, as he settles into his lounger next to the chilled swimming pool at one of two villas he owns on Palm Jumeirah. “The market is no longer on amphetamines, but it’s still a great place to live and make money.”
Dukes, 45, moved to the emirate from St Albans three years ago after selling his internet firm, which pioneered e-mail greetings cards. He spent £3m buying two villas and two flats on the Palm, has sold both the flats for a healthy profit, and lets one of the villas for up to £3,000 a week. Taking into account the profit he’s made in the
good years, and allowing for the 30% fall in the value of the pound against the dirham over the past year, he reckons he has made a net profit of more than £500,000 — as well as enjoying what he calls “a dream lifestyle”.
In spite of the slump, some analysts say the fundamentals of the property sector are sound. The cancellation of new projects will ultimately support prices by cutting supply; as the economy picks up, more people will move to Dubai and need somewhere to live.
The government is tackling the immediate liquidity problems, raising up to £12 billion in a bond issue it is using to bail out cash-strapped state-backed companies, notably Nakheel. A better regulatory framework for the property sector is being introduced: new laws will stop developers taking payments for properties before they have broken ground. Bankruptcy legislation will offer investors legal redress when developers either fail to complete planned projects or go bust.
With oil prices recovering, and banks and developers recapitalised, Blair Hagkull, who runs the property investment and advisory outfit Jones Lang LaSalle in the emirate, sees this year as “a period of correction”, with prices continuing to fall until Christmas. Next year, he says, “we will witness market stability”, with prices and rents recovering in 2011. At that time, Hagkull advises looking to established locations such as Dubai Marina, the Downtown area around the Burj Dubai, and the Lakes, Meadows and Springs estates. Buyers should avoid off-plan sales and buy completed properties from developers with a proven track record of delivering high-quality homes.
The advice comes too late for David and Leanne. Their dream is over. The sooner they can leave, they say, the better. As D-day — departure day — nears, their nerves are shredded. Leanne is worried that her bank, which recently cancelled her credit cards, may have registered her as a debtor, and that she will be refused the right to leave when they get to the airport. If that happens, David could take the children himself, but he does not want to leave his wife behind. “All we can do is pray,” she says. “Then pray some more
From 2000 until last year, developers used borrowed money and deposits raised from off-plan sales to fund razzle-dazzle schemes. Lax regulation meant developers could take deposits before they had even broken ground, and even use deposits taken from buyers in one development to fund the construction of other developments.
With deposits as low as 10% of the purchase price, speculators piled in, reserving entire floors of new developments and flipping all the flats for a higher price before they had to pay the next staged payment. The more they sold, the higher prices rose. The higher the prices, the more they bought. Round and round the fizzy cycle went.
Then, when the credit crunch hit last year, the economy turned on a dirham. Private developers suddenly found they could not borrow from banks. The Dubai government, which controls Nakheel, Dubai Holding and Emaar — which together account for more than 80% of all property development in Dubai — could not borrow on the wholesale markets. With almost no oil of its own, Dubai depends on borrowed money and support from the federal government, largely bankrolled by Abu Dhabi.
Long-term investors who had bought off-plan homes that were almost finished could no longer borrow from the banks, so missed their final payments and defaulted. Spooked by falling prices, new investors walked away from deals, forfeiting their deposits. The result, as Dommett puts it, is that the housing market has “effectively stopped”.
Developers who once rushed to launch a project every few months are racing to abandon them. Peter Riddoch, the Scots-born boss of Damac, Dubai’s largest private-sector developer, says: “We won’t launch any new product in Dubai in the next year.”
Greedy speculators, fast-talking developers and the global slump are not the only factors behind the bust. Many investors were foolish. Gupta, for instance, admits he was suckered into believing prices would rise for ever, and brushed off concerns about Dubai’s lack of legal or regulatory framework. The court system is in its infancy, leaving investors unsure what rights they have if developers go bust.
Was Dubai’s desert dream a mirage, or can the government sort out the mess? And when, if ever, should investors think about re-entering the market?
“Dubai property is not a busted flush,” says Andy Dukes, an IT entrepreneur, as he settles into his lounger next to the chilled swimming pool at one of two villas he owns on Palm Jumeirah. “The market is no longer on amphetamines, but it’s still a great place to live and make money.”
Dukes, 45, moved to the emirate from St Albans three years ago after selling his internet firm, which pioneered e-mail greetings cards. He spent £3m buying two villas and two flats on the Palm, has sold both the flats for a healthy profit, and lets one of the villas for up to £3,000 a week. Taking into account the profit he’s made in the
good years, and allowing for the 30% fall in the value of the pound against the dirham over the past year, he reckons he has made a net profit of more than £500,000 — as well as enjoying what he calls “a dream lifestyle”.
In spite of the slump, some analysts say the fundamentals of the property sector are sound. The cancellation of new projects will ultimately support prices by cutting supply; as the economy picks up, more people will move to Dubai and need somewhere to live.
The government is tackling the immediate liquidity problems, raising up to £12 billion in a bond issue it is using to bail out cash-strapped state-backed companies, notably Nakheel. A better regulatory framework for the property sector is being introduced: new laws will stop developers taking payments for properties before they have broken ground. Bankruptcy legislation will offer investors legal redress when developers either fail to complete planned projects or go bust.
With oil prices recovering, and banks and developers recapitalised, Blair Hagkull, who runs the property investment and advisory outfit Jones Lang LaSalle in the emirate, sees this year as “a period of correction”, with prices continuing to fall until Christmas. Next year, he says, “we will witness market stability”, with prices and rents recovering in 2011. At that time, Hagkull advises looking to established locations such as Dubai Marina, the Downtown area around the Burj Dubai, and the Lakes, Meadows and Springs estates. Buyers should avoid off-plan sales and buy completed properties from developers with a proven track record of delivering high-quality homes.
The advice comes too late for David and Leanne. Their dream is over. The sooner they can leave, they say, the better. As D-day — departure day — nears, their nerves are shredded. Leanne is worried that her bank, which recently cancelled her credit cards, may have registered her as a debtor, and that she will be refused the right to leave when they get to the airport. If that happens, David could take the children himself, but he does not want to leave his wife behind. “All we can do is pray,” she says. “Then pray some more
From: NigelP...@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 23:16:40 -0400
Subject: Re: omniyat square =Re: [Dubai Property Investors] Omniyat Gemini
To: dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Mawj M
May 26, 2009, 8:07:24 AM5/26/09
to dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
BREAKING NEWS |
Oil to average over $52 a barrel in '09 -poll
EUR | GBP
1.137
,
USD | EUR
0.716
,
USD | GBP
0.630
1.137
,
USD | EUR
0.716
,
USD | GBP
0.630
Dubai property suffers world's worst reversal
 | | | | |
Knight Frank said Dubai has suffered the biggest property price reversal in the world. Photograph: Getty Images
Dubai’s real estate
market suffered the biggest reversal in the world after prices
dramatically collapsed from their mid-2008 highs as the investment
bubble burst in the wake of the global financial crisis, Knight Frank
said on Tuesday.
The London-based property broker said in a report, cited by news agency Bloomberg, that house prices in the emirate fell 32 percent in the 12 months ended March 31, compared to a jump of 48 percent the previous year.
Nick Barnes, head of international residential research at Knight Frank, described Dubai’s beleaguered real estate market “a mess”.
“A lot will depend on developers and how long they can hold on before getting into fire-sale territory,” Barnes was quoted as saying by Bloomberg.
Knight Frank’s figures less than other analysts, some of which of reported a 40 percent-plus price drop in the first quarter alone.
Dubai’s real estate market has been hit hard by the global financial crisis.
The market boomed from 2002 to mid-2008 after the government opened it up to foreign investment and unchecked speculation drove prices to unsustainable levels.
But the onset of the financial crisis saw demand from foreigners, the majority of investors, dry up and local investors finding it increasingly difficult to secure financing.
Prices have fallen as much as 50 percent from their mid-2008 highs and billions of dollars worth of projects have been cancelled or put on hold.
Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, an economics professor at Princeton University, said on Monday investments levels seen in the UAE’s real estate sector in past years will not happen again for at least “a generation”.
The London-based property broker said in a report, cited by news agency Bloomberg, that house prices in the emirate fell 32 percent in the 12 months ended March 31, compared to a jump of 48 percent the previous year.
Nick Barnes, head of international residential research at Knight Frank, described Dubai’s beleaguered real estate market “a mess”.
“A lot will depend on developers and how long they can hold on before getting into fire-sale territory,” Barnes was quoted as saying by Bloomberg.
Knight Frank’s figures less than other analysts, some of which of reported a 40 percent-plus price drop in the first quarter alone.
Dubai’s real estate market has been hit hard by the global financial crisis.
The market boomed from 2002 to mid-2008 after the government opened it up to foreign investment and unchecked speculation drove prices to unsustainable levels.
But the onset of the financial crisis saw demand from foreigners, the majority of investors, dry up and local investors finding it increasingly difficult to secure financing.
Prices have fallen as much as 50 percent from their mid-2008 highs and billions of dollars worth of projects have been cancelled or put on hold.
Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, an economics professor at Princeton University, said on Monday investments levels seen in the UAE’s real estate sector in past years will not happen again for at least “a generation”.
From: khis...@hotmail.com
To: dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: omniyat square =Re: [Dubai Property Investors] Omniyat Gemini
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 01:08:25 +0000
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