No win No Fee Lawyers/ Sucessfull Court Cases

[Isbar Ali]

Dear Investors,
 
Has anyone found an appropriate lawyer whom would work on a no win no fee basis? If not what is a competitive rate? What should I expect from fees and legal work?
 
Furthermoree have any investors won a case and physically had their money refunded?
 
 
 
Regards
 
 
Ali

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[Sandra van Zyl]

Hi Ali

 

The experience I've had with lawyers is the very first question they ask - is how much have you invested - not determine how easy or difficult the case may be.  They demand 10% of your monies invested upfront as well as AED30 000 for court fees.  I managed to get a free appointment to state my case (most others charge a consultation fee of AED2500 per hour) - but he could not give me an answer as to his success rate of such cases - just kept on insisting that I have no other choice than to file a case. 

 

I have invested in Reliance 12 and paid 30% - AED360 000 one year ago. was supposed to be finished end of this year but until now there is not a hole in the sand yet. I went to Mr Edreiss at the Land Department to get some legal advice but still nothing is sorted.  I am not prepared to pay AED60 000 upfront to a lawyer/advocate in the hope he gets me some of my money back if they cannot show me any cases which they have won. 

 

what I also found out is that a laywer normally charge you AED5000 to investigate and "try" to get your money back, but a lawyer will not be able to take your case further than that. Only advocates are allowed to go to court.

 

The best option is to get as many investors together whom have invested in the same developments, but then again that is really hard to find.  

 

I guess we are in the same boat.!

 

regards

 

Sandra

[Craig Johnston]

Hi,

I have sat here for months reading the emails, do you people not understand yet!!? Sandra is correct in what she says about lawyers charges since the crisis hit the only people who have taken advantage of the situation and been continually earning money have been the lawyers, not one lawyer in the whole of the UAE has recovered a single dirham of money and neither will they in the future, it just wont happen because of how the UAE is setup legally, also the UAE authoritys will not allow anything negative or detramental to its economy.

So please by all means keep hanging onto that false hope the lawyer gives you and keep paying his fees while he/she is miling, but you will get no where, the proof is in the results with a lawyer...and there are and will not be any results.....that is that include money being recovered!! It does not work the same in the UAE as it does in europe...all of the costs you have paid out to the lawyer.....very unlikely you can recover these...so the hole you are in now just gets bigger with the lawyers, from a financial aspect.

The best thing you can do is rally politicians and pressure the government directly, do not even bother with a lawyer to recover money.....this may sound a bit negative but i know people who have recommended lawyers because they were fantastic....and guess what? no results just a lwyers bill and the friend got a little commision for recommending the lawyer!!! The UAE is the most lawless place i have ever come accross, and things need to change, because if all the foreign investment pulled out, the UAE would fail to exist...remember that. Shiekh Mohammed should start to do something proactively to look after the people who believed int he same dream he does, as it was us foreigners that built Dubai, with our money. He is a good man, but as far as i am concerned all developers there should be nationalised.


Regards,

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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:51:19 +0400
Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: No win No Fee Lawyers/ Sucessfull Court Cases
From: kimi...@gmail.com
To: dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com

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From: Craig Johnston
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:58:50 +0200
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>

[Ali P]

There are lawyers who may give consultations for free but I haven't
seen or heard of a lawyer in this market who will represent on a no
win no fee basis.

Business 24/7 wrote about a lawyer who said he would do pro-bono
service for deserving people who can't afford law fees if other costs
such as photocopying are met but probably the inhibitor for deserving
clients would be the court fees themselves not photocopying,
translation e.t.c. (
http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/8/Pages/08082009/08092009_5d4f22975be44963ab237d1db8500028.aspx_
)

Apart from Al Boom problem that required a special decree from the
ruler of Dubai I haven't seen anything where an investor has won their
case solely through the court system (http://www.thenational.ae/apps/
pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090814/NATIONAL/708139835/1010)

There was one case where an investor seemed to have 'won, which was
the Mizin case but Mizin said they would appeal. RERA shortly
afterward sent a letter to Mizin upon their request which said they
were in compliance with their regulations for registration of units
and the land department was finalizing the registration. Cases filed
afterward by Investors against this government owned developer have
been rejected by the courts according to these investors.

If the group is unable to get anywhere with the Government a possible
venue to solve our problems is the International Court of Justice
(ICJ).

This is a legal opinion regarding Law 13 which confirms sentiments
other members have where we must involve our home states to take the
case up (via ICJ).

The UAE represents its seven Emirates at the international level and
the Union being vested with the power of having exclusive legislative
jurisdiction under Article 121 of the UAE Constitution in the matters
inclusive of real estate and expropriation in the public interest
among others was bound by the duty to protect the investment made by
nationals of another State within its Emirate of Dubai.

Depriving the investors of the rights to protect their investments by
Law no: 13 of the Dubai government resulted in violation of the
international obligation owed by the State of UAE.

On Aug 19, 5:33 pm, Isbar Ali <isbar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Investors,
>
> Has anyone found an appropriate lawyer whom would work on a no win no fee basis? If not what is a competitive rate? What should I expect from fees and legal work?
>
> Furthermoree have any investors won a case and physically had their money refunded?
>
> Regards
>
> Ali
>

> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and emoticons.http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/

[ashish...@gmail.com]

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

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From: Craig Johnston
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:58:50 +0200
To: <dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com>

[dubaisimonb]

Dear Craig
In general, I'm sure you are right.
However, I have recently been negotiating with "The Legal Group" www.tlg.ae
on behalf of a group of 87 investors in developments by ACW Holdings
Ltd, and we have
decided to sign up with them. One reason for doing so was this comment
in a recent email, which I have no reason to doubt:

"We were the first law firm to achieve a judgment in favour of
purchasers in the Dubai Court of First Instance and at the Court of
Appeal."

Any other views?? For the record, I have absolutely no connection with
TLG apart from my declared role as below.

Simon Brew,
Hon Chair, ACW Investors Group (which has its own dedicated Google
group)

[Sandra van Zyl]

Hi there again

 

Exactly so. I contacted at least ten law firms and went to see one (free) - from the information I gathered there is just no chance I will pay one Dirham to appoint a legal team to try to recover my money because I trust none of them.  The irony of the situation is that I have not even signed a contract with the developer. The Developers have defaulted in so many ways that one does not need a lawyer to see who is in the wrong here. Apart from the Estate Agent who took AED113 000 for their commission (!!) the balance is supposedly paid into an escrow account.

 

I was advised to visit the Land Department to gain some legal advice.  Their reply was that everyone now runs to them to demand their money back. I said well, where do I have to go to to get some sort of support - you are the governement, you should resolve this, so if the project does not go ahead, why dont you then pay our money back? It is going to damage Dubai's image in such a way that they will not see any further international investments here. They are looking at all the projects and said it will take up to six months to determine which projects will go on and which not. Then they will start paying back the investors for those projects not going ahead.  The problem is the longer it carries on, the less money will eventually be available to be refunded, if any.

 

I will not give up fighting and definitely will keep on pressurising the government - we should  arrive at the land department in numbers and demand some support !!

 

bye

 

Sandra

[Kamal Dhanwani]

Simon,

Please add me kdha...@gmail.com on your ACW group as I have an
investment with ACW as well in THE LIGHT.

Thanks,
KD

[Craig Johnston]

I read your comments with interest, so has this judgement resulted in money being returned yet?....it is a good statement but i doubt any money has been retuned or will be returned because of how the UAe is run, the law is useless and only benefits the UAE.

Please keep me informed of any actual money or lawyers cost being recovered for that fact as i am sure it will be zero.

Sorry to be the negative on this but i have seen a dozen groups get together and do the same thing, and the result has been zero, the only way to achieve anything is either pressure politcally that is of course you can find a politician with balls! or peopel you know with a developer who will take a bribe...and belive me there are plenty of them...including RERA i have heard.


Regards,

> From: kdha...@gmail.com
> To: dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: No win No Fee Lawyers/ Sucessfull Court Cases

[Mawj M]

 Hi Dear All: As from the beginning I said,that ,the way the Developers did business,and the role of UAE
                Government regarding the investment of foreigner's and ....... was efferent, not correct, and against the international
                laws and conventions. so to set and wait for mercy of this Government,these developers a useless and wast of time.
                Now everybody (even very positive people!!!!)know that the Government of Dubai particularly toke the developers side
               (because the Government itself is Developer)and has no intentions to do anything to stop the corrupt,fraudulent and lawless
               practice of the so called developers .
                 -From 1800 + Developers now in RERA Website left just under 300 developers ,its just in the list,but in real much less than,that.
                 -How many those Developers did run away with investors money? Complete silence form RERA side,No talk no comments.
                 -How many of them in Jail?
                 -How is the so called ESCROW accounts doing? No any information from the Government side.
                 -The so called projects monitoring is loughable joke(in 6month 40% project had been visted and the repurts are how the developres
                 -like ,they are making ready.)
                         So this  Government had broken its own law and promises ,who can trust  them any more?
                         We have to put pressure on this Government ,in UAE and internationally,and we must to force this Government
                         to solve the investors problem, we must put pressure on our own Governments to do something to bring the UAE Government
                         to the negotiation table and to meet its international obligations and responsibilities.
                         This is the only way,there is no other solutions to this problems
                                  Thank                   Nick

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From: john...@live.com

To: dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: No win No Fee Lawyers/ Sucessfull Court Cases

Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:27:01 +0200

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[aligoldy]

Hi there Ali P

Could you let me know the lawyers contact details whom you have said
would look at pro bono work if there is an extreme circumstance? You
said you may just need to pay for translation and photocopying fees?

Regards


Ali

On Aug 21, 8:02 am, Ali P <apirb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are lawyers who may give consultations for free but I haven't
> seen or heard of a lawyer in this market who will represent on a no
> win no fee basis.
>
> Business 24/7 wrote about a lawyer who said he would do pro-bono
> service for deserving people who can't afford law fees if other costs
> such as photocopying are met but probably the inhibitor for deserving
> clients would be the court fees themselves not photocopying,

> translation e.t.c. (http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/8/Pages/08082009/08092009_5d...

> > Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and emoticons.http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[aligoldy]

Ali P,

my email address is as follows: isba...@hotmail.com

On Aug 21, 8:02 am, Ali P <apirb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are lawyers who may give consultations for free but I haven't
> seen or heard of a lawyer in this market who will represent on a no
> win no fee basis.
>
> Business 24/7 wrote about a lawyer who said he would do pro-bono
> service for deserving people who can't afford law fees if other costs
> such as photocopying are met but probably the inhibitor for deserving
> clients would be the court fees themselves not photocopying,

> translation e.t.c. (http://www.business24-7.ae/Articles/2009/8/Pages/08082009/08092009_5d...

[Fuadsmile]

Dear All,

 

Some personal input - lawyers are in business as were the investors in the last 5 years. They feel it is their time to make money now and therefore logically they are not at fault.

 

However, as the lawyers and the courts are still untested, one should do some homework on his own.

 

Few points :

 

- The law is very basic and most disputes revolve around how Law 8/2207, Law 13-14/2008 and Law 9/2009 are used for / against the case. Should one feel that he has enough legal knowledge, then he can go to the court get his documents translated and file a case in the Property Court paying the fees / charges and the court will summon the developer. This sounds simple but for those who are cash strapped and do not want legal help, it is an option.

 

- Join groups and file cases - most investors do not trust each other, forget the developer. Any two cases for the same project will not be carbon copy cases as such they need to be prepared fought / individually. There are individuals scouting for law firms but at the end it depends on how well prepared is the law firm to fight such the case in court.

 

- Most lawyers will advise negotiation / legal notices in order to make more money on consultation, so the investor has to make up his mind on how to save what and go for the jugular. It is not worth wasting time and money on improbable issues.

 

- Court cases will be long - they are anywhere except a few countries. There are 3 courts involved - first instance, appeal and cassation. Execution of judgement does not mean money !

 

- Courts are the final resort, however, one should think positively and assume that it is an independent body. If such an assumption is not there, the it is better to kiss the investment good bye and get along with life ! After all, for all investors like us, money could be made only because there was a lack of laws and transparency, otherwise such returns are not imaginable.

 

To summarize, for those trying to take a legal route, there is no option but to go to a lawyer. the other option is to wait for about a year, by which time a lot of cases will be cleared, but in the meantime you may loose the grounds of your case.

 

Thanks and regards / Fuadsmile

[Ali P]

Ali,

The lawyer's name is KK Sarachandra Boss. He is a Partner and
Corporate, Commercial and Contract Lawyer at Dar Al Adalah Advocates &
Legal Consultants. I don't know who this person nor his reputation of
him or his law firm so deal with care as there could be a strong
possibility the offer could be an opportunistic publicity attempt.

The firm's contact details are on this website: http://www.daraladalah.com/lawyersprof.html.
Let us know if he delivers on what he said to the journalist at 24/7.

This is what he said according to 24/7:

'Many lawyers including me are ready to do free services to deserving
clients provided some basic costs such as translation and attestation,
photocopying, among others are met with," he added.'

The original link I posted does not seem to work so attached below is
the full article:

By

Karen Remo-Listana on Sunday, August 09, 2009

Legal practitioners in the UAE are urging the authorities to establish
a scheme, which can extend legal aid to those who cannot afford costly
legal services.

Lawyers speaking to Emirates Business said the number of litigation
cases they are handling have increased significantly over the last few
months due to the slump in economy, which has fuelled breaches of
contract.

Most of the clients however – either individual or corporate – are
having a hard time in pursuing these cases.

KK Sarachandra Bose, Partner and Corporate, Commercial and Contract
Lawyer at Dar Al Adalah Advocates & Legal Consultants, said most of
the clients do not have enough cash to push the cases.

"This is the time to have more pro-bono lawyers," he said. Bose said
he has not yet seen the government assisting pro-bono lawyers, and
this is making it difficult for such to further their advocacy.
"Considering the high costs to maintain a law firm in the UAE, it is
not easy for any lawyer to offer pro-bono service to many clients. For
this, I would suggest the government agencies should come forward and
support the pro-bono lawyers in different ways," he said.

"Many lawyers including me are ready to do free services to deserving
clients provided some basic costs such as translation and attestation,
photocopying, among others are met with," he added.

In the UAE, however, pro-bono lawyering is not yet a developed
culture.

"What we have is a legal aid in the criminal serious-cases where the
court will appoint a lawyer to represent the defender," Salem Salem Al
Shaali, General Manager of Al Shaali & Co Advocate and Legal
Consultants.

In civil cases, Al Shaali said the plaintiff may ask a pardon from the
litigation fee and this will be temporary according to the case
result. This fee had to be paid back to the court by the plaintiff if
he lost the case or by the respondent if the plaintiff wins the case.

Stephen Ballantine, a senior legal consultant with Galadari &
Associates' Dubai office, said the provision of quality and effective
legal services pro bono must be on a voluntary basis.

"Certainly, in other countries government assistance – usually
financed by taxation – is given to fund/provide free representation in
some types of litigation. The most obvious being criminal cases," he
said.

"I can't, however, see any government being too quick to fund the
litigation of a purchaser of a multi-million dirham property who has a
dispute over delivery dates with a developer – notwithstanding how
meritorious the purchaser's case may be," Ballantine added.

Currently the only pro-bono scheme in the region is found in DIFC
Courts. But it only covers matters related to DIFC. "We work closely
with other courts… and to the extent where any courts would want to
establish a pro-bono scheme, we'd be delighted to help," Mark Beer,
registrar of DIFC Courts said.

"I would suggest that we implement the DIFC pro-bono scheme; we'll see
how it works out and if it works well then I am sure it will be
adopted."

Another option is the establishment of a Public Defender's Office
where persons of limited means will have access to legal
representation in serious criminal cases, Ballantine said.

The establishment of a Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) in Dubai can also
help people on more modest incomes obtain access to legal services for
personal matters, he added.

"I understand that the CAB receives support from both the public and
private sectors. I am sure that such an initiative would be well-
supported by the local legal community. I would certainly volunteer to
help get the initiative up and running," he said.

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[Fuadsmile]

Hello all,

 

The media does not filter the capability of the lawyers.

 

However,  only local lawyers are allowed to litigate in court. In view of this, the definition of 'free service' should be well understood.

 

Thanks and regards / Fuadsmile

[dubaiinve...@gmail.com]

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From: Fuadsmile
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:14:36 +0400

[Sandra van Zyl]

Hi Simon

Do you know how much this firm will charge for consultation fees and to take a case on?

 

I have heard that even in cases where judgement was achieved in favor of investors, still no monies were paid.

 

regards

Sandra

[Craig Johnston]

Dear All,

When are you going to see the light? There will be no monies paid back to investors ever....with judgement or not, no monies will be paid, we are talking middle east, and everyone apart from a local is part of a big game......no money will leave the middle east. Look at the facts.....where in the world have you seen a judgement given in the plantiffs favour and no money paid.......only in the middle east!!!!

The only people who are earning money are the lawyers selling false hope....and most of them are local!!! When a law firm can prove they have been successful in obtaining judegement and refund of monies, tonly then can trust be given with caution to them to act for you.....without proof of refund payment  being presented, i do not see how any of you continue to part with your money that you all say you have not got!!

I am sorry i am like this but face the facts, and open your eyes! I was helping people get refunds using the same tactics the developers used against investors with success, i refused to do that for anyone anymore as i did not even get my expenses paid for doing this, and i was successful, that was the tahnks i got from investors....so continue with your lawyers and false hope....you are going down the wrong road! the only way to fight these people is to undrstand what you are up against and understand the rules and fight back by doing exactly what they have done to you.

I hope all will read this and finally something sinks into your heads....as you were all so quick to think you would make 'quick' moeny and parted with your money so easy with out any kind of market analysis or checks on the devlopers...it is ultimately your own faults.....no one held a gun to your head to part with your money! If you want out, then listen and read what i have written, it is getting very boring reading the same tactics you think will achieve success, when actually nothing has worked.

Regards,

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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:19:05 +0400

Subject: [Dubai Property Investors] Re: No win No Fee Lawyers/ Sucessfull Court Cases
From: kimi...@gmail.com
To: dubai-proper...@googlegroups.com

<br

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[dubaisimonb]

The answer is always the same: It will vary depending on
circumstances! I suggest you call/email them and find out.

> > group)- Hide quoted text -