18NY v0.99 - First Impressions

[Chris Nasipak]

We finished our first play-through under the new rules yesterday, and I logged the entire game as I have before. I'll post it if there's interest.

Map changes: The D&H likes the new arrangement in its neighboring offboards. It's a small change but it does help the company's early-game value. Late game it's either dumped or running elsewhere so not as big a deal.

The pass-throughs on the eastern border were big benefits to the first couple of ORs of the NYNH and BA. After this they generally settle down into the best they can get of the Philadelphia-Albany run. That seems to be the real spine of the game, everyone who can ends up running there because (as the bank robber said) "That's where the money is".

Certificate limits: A lot less of people buying up 100% of their own companies, that's for certain. Most of the time we never got above 70%, even after the post-12H freebie sales.

New trains: THe 5Es are all kinds of cool, and fill the gap between the 12H and the D perfectly. In token-heavy games they may well be superior to a D. I made the (serious) mistake of passing up a chance to buy a second 12H in hopes of nabbing one but they melted away before I could get there. (I ended up transferring the money to my other company so it could buy a D.)

The train rush was much smoother than our previous games. We saw none of the panic that we were used to, where the 6H's would run for two ORs if we were lucky, before the 12's crushed the 4's and all of a sudden companies had to scramble to buy D's.

We actually saw two companies end up with the ridiculously well-paying routes after they picked up 12H+D and 5E+D, respectively. One of them broke $150/share maximum payout.

Privates... mmm.

P1 sold for 20, paid out 20, was bought in by a minor for 10 and used to upgrade Albany.
P2 sold for 45, paid out 30 to me (+80 for the buy-in) and 10 to the D&H, which then took the Stagecoach token in Albany and was the 800lb gorilla of the mid-game.
P3 sold for 85, paid 60, and was used to buy a minor a 4H. (The minor bought it for 30)
P4 sold for 110, paid out 140, and was never bought in.
P5 sold for 145, paid out 180.
P6 sold for 200, paid out 30, and the D&H opened at 100.

For having no special power and no ability to be sold in, I still think the Erie Canal is overpriced at $140. I understand that other playtest groups are seeing higher payouts from it, could someone elaborate on that? Are you perhaps opening fewer minors in the first SR? (We seem to open all but one or two in the first SR every game, there's a lot of impetus to get track laid on the Erie and kill that $100/OR payout. How many do you open? What price do you open them at?)

Looking purely at the numbers of how much profit each player (and companies under their presidency) made from each minor:
P1: $20 payout + $10 buyout + $80 (Albany upgrade) - $20 purchase = $90
P2: $30 payout + $80 buyout + $10 payout + $180 (Albany token) - $45 purchase = $255
P3: $60 payout + $30 buyout + $100 (Train purchase) - $85 purchase = $105
P4: $140 payout - $110 purchase = $30
P5: $180 payout - $145 purchase = $35
P6: $30 payout + $200 (D&H shares) - $200 purchase = $30

The Stagecoach is clearly the big winner here. A token-teleport into the payout zone for an established company with multiple trains? Yeah, that's a combo we're going to watch closely.

We did have one question that has still not been clarified, or if it has the rules have not been changed to make it clear.
When a company goes into Emergency Fund Raising, it is stated that the company can sell shares from its treasury, take loans (up to the limit), and/or use the President's personal funds. It's not made clear, however, if the President is allowed to sell shares he himself holds in order to cover this. Is he? In either case the rules should be updated to reflect this.

Those are our impressions so far. It's a good game, Pierre, glad to see it (since we live in NY).

[Pierre LeBoeuf]

Chris,

Thanks for playing 18NY again, and for your comments.

The off-board change around Carbondale reflects the original intent, and was supposed to improve the D&H's early runs. The pass-throughs for the B&A and NYNH are supposed to level the playing field a little for those two late RRs, but I haven't seen them used much in my recent plays.

I had difficulty coming up with a new train between the 12H and diesel that was worthwhile, but not too powerful. The 5E is a little too good, but it had to be worth double the city values in order to justify the higher price. I'm glad you like the train procession better now, that was my hope. I like the endgame big routes, but not everyone does, and they do tend to slow the endgame down a bit. If you're going to pay all that money for a late train, I like to see it justify the expense.

The privates have been the biggest challenge in this design, but I think I'm close on the price. Based on your stats, P1 cost 20, paid 30; P2 45/110; P3 85/90; P4 110/140; P5 145/180; & P6 200/230. We have tended to open nearly everything on the first SR as well, but I usually get the Erie payout over $200 before it closes. I could see cutting the price back down to $120, but based on your stats, the Erie price is not terribly out of line. Getting $100 back immediately is better than the overall payout indicates. As the map has compressed and the amount of start money has increased, the worth of the Erie has fluctuated as well. The primary intent of the private is to induce track building from Albany to Buffalo, and I think it definitely succeeds on that score.

I'll check the emergency fund raising rules again, but the intent is definitely to allow stock sales (if needed) to raise cash as one of the options.

Pierre

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[cro...@rochester.rr.com]

---- Chris Nasipak <cro...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> New trains: THe 5Es are all kinds of cool, and fill the gap between the 12H and the D perfectly. In token-heavy games they may well be superior to a D. I made the (serious) mistake of passing up a chance to buy a second 12H in hopes of nabbing one but they melted away before I could get there. (I ended up transferring the money to my other company so it could buy a D.)
>
> The train rush was much smoother than our previous games. We saw none of the panic that we were used to, where the 6H's would run for two ORs if we were lucky, before the 12's crushed the 4's and all of a sudden companies had to scramble to buy D's.
>
> We actually saw two companies end up with the ridiculously well-paying routes after they picked up 12H+D and 5E+D, respectively. One of them broke $150/share maximum payout.

There's been some questions raised that the 5E may actually, on this map, be better than a D.
If you can avoid getting tokened out of the Philadelphia-Brooklyn-NYC-Albany-Springfield route, which isn't hard unless you're the Erie or RWO, the payout appears to be better than almost any conceivable Diesel run.

What values have you been seeing for 5E vs D payouts? We didn't get a good representative sample from this playthrough, I think.

>

> We did have one question that has still not been clarified, or if it has the rules have not been changed to make it clear.
> When a company goes into Emergency Fund Raising, it is stated that the company can sell shares from its treasury, take loans (up to the limit), and/or use the President's personal funds. It's not made clear, however, if the President is allowed to sell shares he himself holds in order to cover this. Is he? In either case the rules should be updated to reflect this.

OK, going through the group archives you already answered this one.