25fps to 29.976fps

[mi...@highwire.ie]

We have a project coming up that requires frame rate conversion from 25fps to 29.976 delivery.

Is it best to edit in the native 25fps and calculate the total running time to 23.976 fps (figured the leap from 25 to 29 was too big)? I will then take his 25fps timeline (after grade and online) and convert this to 23.976 in DaVinci Resolve. From there I was going to bring it back to Avid and do the 2:3 pulldown. I am a bit lost at this point.. I have tried doing the pull down in Avid but I end up with duplicate frames. I thought the timings wouldn't change between 23.976 to 29.976? I would appreciate any help on this

[Tony Quinsee-Jover]

Not that I’ve had much to do with 2:3 pulldown but isn’t duplicated frames exactly what you’d expect with it? Every third frame duplicated? Hence the stuttery pans that our US friends associate with a ‘film look’?

Cheers,

Tone :)

Sent by magic over t'interweb

On 14 Jan 2021, at 10:52, mi...@highwire.ie <mi...@highwire.ie> wrote:



We have a project coming up that requires frame rate conversion from 25fps to 29.976 delivery.

Is it best to edit in the native 25fps and calculate the total running time to 23.976 fps (figured the leap from 25 to 29 was too big)? I will then take his 25fps timeline (after grade and online) and convert this to 23.976 in DaVinci Resolve. From there I was going to bring it back to Avid and do the 2:3 pulldown. I am a bit lost at this point.. I have tried doing the pull down in Avid but I end up with duplicate frames. I thought the timings wouldn't change between 23.976 to 29.976? I would appreciate any help on this

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[Mike Dziennik]

You shouldn't be getting duplicated frames, just duplicated fields. Are you stepping through field by field in Avid (button is available in the command palette).

I assume you are monitoring interlaced on an broadcast monitor?

Mike

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[Tony Quinsee-Jover]

Told you I didn’t have much experience of 2:3 ;)

Sent by magic over t'interweb

On 14 Jan 2021, at 15:27, Mike Dziennik <mi...@dzmail.co.uk> wrote:



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[mi...@highwire.ie]

Yes, viewing interlaced on a broadcast monitor.

I have done a test and brought the 23.976p timeline into the 29.976i project. I clicked yes to the notification to load sequence matching the project's frame rate. I have source set to 'progressive' and output set to 'Film with 2:3 pulldown' in effects mode. I am still getting duplicate frames every 5th frame. Any idea to avoid the duplicate frames?

[Carlos Filipe Sousa]

Getting old man, 

I would suggest an outboard solution, pass it through a Teranex scaler / frame rate converter.

In my interlaced experience :-) dedicated hardware was always the best quality, not software solutions.

But same as Tony, those weird frame rate and pulldown always made me smile knowing I live in Pal land!

Cheers from Portugal!

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Carlos Filipe Sousa

[Jef Huey]

A bit late but ....

I convert 23.975p to 29.97i with Media Composer all the time.  Here are some notes / thoughts.  I will assume you know very little about MC (that is safer).

1. You must have a 50.94i sequence in MC.

2. You need to know that in MC in pause or advancing frame by frame, you only see field 1 when in an interlace sequence.  So it is easy to thing a 1,2,3,4,4 pattern.  You need to export to an interlace codec and then inspect in something that shows you both fields at the same time.

3. Mapping "Advance by Fields" to your keyboard can really help in an interlace sequence because of #2.

Hope that helps.

Jef

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[mi...@highwire.ie]

Thanks for your help. Just to get another opinion on this. It is worth mentioning they require it as 29.976i drop-frame timecode. 

1.  23.976p timeline into the 29.976i project which is 59.94i 

2. Accept the notification to load sequence matching the project's frame rate. 

3. Source set to 'progressive' and output set to 'Film with 2:3 pulldown' in effects mode. Check it by advancing field by field as mentioned above

4. Make the timeline drop-frame by right clicking on programme monitor, Sequence Report and change the timecode from : to ; 

Is there anything I am missing from this workflow?

[Jef Huey]

Some more thoughts.

1.    I now think I understand that you want to put a "live" 23.976 sequence into a 59.94i sequence.  While that is technically doable, I would not.  Only on the off chance a cut point got shifted.  I would output the 23.976 to a high quality codec and bring it back into the 59.94i sequence.

2.    Everything else looks good.  About your time question.  A 23.97 shows "time"  will not be same in 59.94i DF.  One thing many people do not know is that when you are editing in your 23.976 sequence you can set up one of your TC windows above the Record window to show you what the time will be once converted.  Very useful when you need to hit a specific time.

3.    As always, test this workflow!

Good luck,

Jef

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