AVC Panic

[DaveC]

Hi all,

 

 

Please excuse this late-in-the day appeal, I just escaped from 6 days in hospital, pumped full of antibiotics, steroids and painkillers. Not the best week I've had, and not the best help I’ve ever been to the missus and four boys (one of whom is 5 weeks old today). Talk about good timing.

 

 

Anyway, Good news; I'm going make it to AVC (99%): Bad news;  I'm going to have to turn down the very kind offer from Tom Coyle to accompany him on the road trip from Florida (I was looking forward to this as much, if not more than the competition if I'm honest) 

 

Sorry Tom, and many, many thanks! It was a gallant offer.

 

 

So, now I haven't got very long and I'm panicking! (Think 2 crashed test quads, a head full of codeine and a liver full of Metronidazole) (oh and consequently only a single measly glass of wine since I’m celebrating my Birthday 6 days late and still on drugs...)

 

 

Thankfully my entry to AVC has been accepted and flights are all sorted, I'll be flying to Denver via Vegas from London, arriving late on the 5th or early on the 6th.

 

 

Questions;   (Obviously can be answered privately, in case you are coming undercover or something ;))

1. I've just booked a downstairs deluxe studio in the Twin Lakes hotel with terrace and hot tub. This could be the party room! Or alternatively I could exercise a bit of thrift and make use of the free cancellation and ask.... Does anyone need/want a room-mate? Excess beddage permitting? Obviously I'll cover my share, and I'll throw in a few beers/British fayre too, if that’s your thing. I'm told I don't snore much, but will steal some earplugs off the plane for you just in case – and I’m going for an upgrade so they’ll be good ones – superb for vibration damping too, especially the first class ones ;) - my good lady is crew for Virgin btw.  Oh and I should probably mention that I’m cured and was never contagious, * I laughed at my own joke there, it's been a hard week. 

 

2. Have 3dr had any drop-outs from their block booking?

2b, Or we'll just have a party room.

 

3. I intend to book a car for a few days, so if anyone wants in, or has room in theirs maybe we could make it a joint effort.

 

4. Would anyone happen to have on-site wifi available that I could use just for mission planner connection - obviously could cache the maps and do other checks but I plan a pre-match visit to confirm GPS vs MAP status, set waypoints etc. and live checking has got to be the way. This will save me having to pay a fortune on my roaming or work out the intricacies of a foreign mobile network and so will be rewarded handsomely! (Actually I just thought, might there be use of a laptop in it’s entirety – that would give me a whole other bag of goodies to bring, oh and allow me to leave the most suspicious of all the luggage in Blighty. See below.

 

5a. Is anyone aware of US internal flight regs for Lipos, or does it depend on the company? Presuming I'm ok with lipo bags. Think I’m OK on Virgin with my 4 cells, apparently it just involves a quick call to explain what I’m up to, to get more than 4 batteries plus the laptop on board.  Here’s where I got the info FYI http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/content/dam/VAA/Documents/baggage/dangerous-goods-jan-13.pdf (actually, reading it, our barometers aren’t mercury are they ;))

 

But if that doesn’t work I’m going to have to post them quick or order some online to be delivered to the hotel. That may prove tricky....

 

5b  I could even buy packs when I'm there and just post them home afterwards - would anyone be able to assist with that, the purchase that is?

 

6. Will anyone have on-site charging capabilities I might be able to borrow in an emergency to try to limit the number of packs I have to bring/send/buy. (I heard Chris mention SUVs full of Pelican cases - and this quad is at 100% 3DR, bar the power-train and the tupperware ;)) I’m going to bring a small charger anyway that will run off the car so this shouldn’t be too much of an issue, but any extra help may come in useful.

 

7. I mistrust my xbees, they have taken numerous beatings and there are none available in the UK at the moment or 3dr radios. I don't suppose anyone from 3DR would have a spare set of telemetry I could borrow (or pay for if I ditch it) if my xbees die on me in the meantime.

 

8. Also 3dr related, I don’t suppose anyone coming overland is bringing a box of 3dr quadframe spares, I can bring or post them happily, but obviously it’ll reduce my loadspace for other things.

 

9. Is there anything else I need to think about/know about/contribute – sorry I’m a bit addled with prescription narcotics at the moment and maybe not thinking as clearly as I could.

 

 

I just wish I hadn’t been hooked up to the drip for the last week as the whole lot would have been FEDEXED already, and I may have had chance for a bit more practice... 

But hey-ho, I can't wait and I'm giving it a go!

 

 

Finally, would anyone like anything special bringing from the UK in return for you help, like Stilton and Roast Highland Beef Jerky, for example? I’d bring a leg of the lamb that grew up in my Mums field if I had the space – it is quintessentially British, sold in Harrods don’t you know!

 

Thank you kindly for any help you are able to offer, you will be credited in my winners speech (haha) and furnished lavishly with praise and ale.

 

Oh and just a quick straw pole, who wouldn’t feel a little twitchy travelling through London Heathrow, Las Vegas, and Denver Airports carrying this little lot, and yes the ground station is as battered as it looks. Of course I can put the aerials away, but it’s that switch...

 

And as for the death star....J

 

[Randy Mackay]

DaveC,

     re LIPOs, last year when travelling from Japan they stopped me at every security point and asked me about them and made me put them in my carry on but I always got through.
            I guess the idea being that if they catch fire it's better they do that where there are people to put them out.
            I explained that I was competing in a "remote controlled helicopter competition".  I thought mentioning words like "UAV" and "drone" probably wouldn't help my case.
            I carried quite a few batteries..maybe 7 or so.

     A number of us are arriving in Denver on the Thursday night (Jun 6th) between 2pm and 5:45pm so I suspect you can catch a lift.  I'm arriving at 5:45pm that day and I'm happy to give you a ride if you want.

     I'd recommend pre-caching the maps around sparkfun in your laptop.  If you're using a android GCS I'm not sure if it's possible.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s8gsXTdPY8

-Randy

---

From: DaveC <da...@wylam.co.uk>
To: drones-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:47 AM
Subject: [drones-discuss] AVC Panic

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[Robert Lefebvre]

Hey Dave... sounds like you've had a rough week.  Hopefully everything is fine.

1. You can stay in my room no problem.  Just promise you aren't an internet weirdo and won't kill me in my sleep, and it's all good. ;)  We'll just have to check and make sure we can get a cot or whatever in there.  I think it's a king bed, but I don't know you that well yet.  LOL.  My only rules are... it will NOT be the party room. I often have trouble sleeping, so when I'm tired, I need to sleep.

3. I'll be arriving mid-afternoon on Thursday.  Well, maybe... I'm flying Air Canada, so all bets are off.  But that's the schedule.  You can ride in my car if you want, should be enough room as I don't have anybody else yet.  Bonus for you: I already know how to drive on the right side of the road.

4. I have the same issue.  Need to take out a loan to pay for roaming charges so... But I assume the hotel will have open wifi, and/or an American will oblige.  I planned on bringing my laptop, which is more inconspicuous than yours.  You can use mine if you want.  I have the same idea as you, go on a scouting mission before the event.  But still, if I didn't have to bring my laptop either, that would lighten my load too.  

7. I think I can bring a spare air-side radio.  Probably easiest as they tend to "just work".

5. Yeah, I gotta figure this out too.  If I try to bring the big heli, we're talking several kilograms of batteries! :eek:  The "be able to extinguish them in the passenger compartment" is a bit of joke.  I guess nobody told them that you can't extinguish a lipo fire.  It's fuel and oxidizer combined in one neat little package!  All you can do is "manage" the fire, but the smoke is nasty.

Cheers,

Rob

[Gary McCray]

Good luck with the LiPo battery thing guys, 

As of the first of this year there are new FAA restrictions and also each Airline now has it's own rules which were mostly revisited and redone in the last few months.

Basically carry on tablets and maybe even laptops can generally get through.

But they have really weird laws and regulation relating to the number of grams of Lithium in each cell, each battery and often total batteries.

There are a lot of places where trying to get on with a 5000mah 5 cell heli battery just isn't going to fly - - literally.

I hope it works out for you, but I suspect that this year at least some of you are going to end up powerless - also literally.

Sorry for the puns, probably look like a bad joke afterwards.

[Greg Fletcher]

Ok, guys, you need to google. On my first hit I found this.

 

[Randy Mackay]

     100Watt hours is apparently 27000 mAh which is huge.  So all our lipo batteries are not classified as "larger lithium ion batteries" so there should be no limit on the number we can carry.  Because they would probably be classified as "spare batteries" you'll need to do them as carry-on.

     They need to be protected though which I guess could mean one of those lipo charging bags or diy equivalent.
           http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17409__Lipoly_Charge_Bag_14_x_23_cm.html

      please correct me if you think I'm wrong.

-Randy

---

From: Greg Fletcher <gafle...@att.net>
To: drones-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:30 AM
Subject: [drones-discuss] Re: AVC Panic

Ok, guys, you need to google. On my first hit I found this.

 

--

[Greg Fletcher]

I just read through the pdf from the faa and you can have 2 x 5000 mAh 3 cell Lipos ("100 watt hours") in checked luggage, with the terminals taped over. And it says 2 batteries, so I guess that means 2 100Ah batteries as well. I would put them in a charging bag, although it's not required. Of course this is just the faa side. You have to take off in your country, but a conecting flight,... you have to follow all the rules.

[Randy Mackay]

     So we seem to have a problem converting mAh to Watt Hours.

     According to this web page: http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/electric/mah-to-wh.htm

     The conversion is: Wh = mAh × V / 1000

      So reoganising it:
                mAh = Wh * 1000 / V

      So for a 3S:
            100 Wh* 1000 / 11.1V = 9009 mAh
      For a 4S:
            100Wh * 1000 / 14.8 = 6756 mAh

-Randy

---

From: Greg Fletcher <gafle...@att.net>
To: drones-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:46 AM

Subject: [drones-discuss] Re: AVC Panic

I just read through the pdf from the faa and you can have 2 x 5000 mAh 3 cell Lipos ("100 watt hours") in checked luggage, with the terminals taped over. And it says 2 batteries, so I guess that means 2 100Ah batteries as well. I would put them in a charging bag, although it's not required. Of course this is just the faa side. You have to take off in your country, but a conecting flight,... you have to follow all the rules.

[Kevin Hester]

re: precaching

yep - this will work with andropilot (just go to the zoom level you want while you still have internet)

That said (if I make it almost certainly I will) I'm happy to provide wifi tethering through my phone.

[Robert Lefebvre]

Randy, this looks about right to me.

So it appears I cannot bring the big heli unless somebody can supply me batteries at the location.  It uses 2 4S 5000 batteries in series, or an 8S 5000.  I suppose I could make due with 3000 for such a short flight, but then I'd have to worry about CG issues since the batteries balance the thing.

It does appear that I could bring 2 batteries needed to power it for a single flight but, that seems unwise to me.  Having just a single pack it just too restrictive.  I'd have no spares.

The small heli uses 3S 2200, so I should be fine there.  But are we limited to just 2, even if they are under the limit?  I'd like to bring 3 sets.  And then there are the 2S 370mAh packs I use for the avionics.

[Chris Anderson]

Robert, 

I'm sure someone on the 3DR team can help with that. If need be, we can buy some in Boulder or order them online and have them shipped to Doug Weibel, who lives locally. 

I''m cc'ing Joe Aletky, who is running the 3DR AVC teams. 

Best, 

Chris

Chris Anderson

CEO, 3D Robotics

ch...@3drobotics.com

[Gary McCray]

Didn't really mean to kick up such a big thing on the batteries guys.

It's, just the facts are that in the last few months the FAA and each of the Airlines have been adding a lot of new rules specific to LiPos.

Worse than our batteries are the ones for things like portable oxygen concentrators.

The Airlines local enforcement is bound to be non-optimal at best.

And carry-on luggage is where it is always worst.

[Robert Lefebvre]

Gary, it's actually great that your brought this to light.  I hadn't realized the rules had changed so much. 

--

[DaveC]

Thanks guys

Yup the battery thing seems pretty standard the more I look, what you are suggesting is inline with getting in and out of the UK or US with Virgin. I'm simply not going to be bringing enough to guarantee some good setup, testing and the high speed runs! Never mind helping out at Dronecon!

If i can buy batteries over the counter in boulder, or from 3DR, my problem is solved. That probably should have been the question. I might see if i can FEDEX a few in time too. I've got more than I need already at home! 

By the way, a tradition of mine whilst visiting new parts of the world is to rent out a motorbike of some description and have a cruise about, and this time should be no exception, especially since it looks like i might be able to steal a ride from the airport! If anyone would like to join me give me a shout and I'll organise it if you like. I'm thinking bmw/ktm adventure or big fat harley rumble for this trip, tricky choice. The bikes can be delivered with all the kit to the hotel, it's a great sight to see as you are having breakfast on the morning, I'd just need bike prefs and sizes for safety gear. I'm thinking Sunday or Monday.

@Robert,

1. That's great thanks. 

I'll see how flush I am at the time, if i can muster a way to spend nothing else on my trip over I will keep the big room just-in-case between us all here we take top three in all categories. There will be dancing girls ;)

Otherwise I'll dive in with you and split the expenses.  It was surprisingly cheap though for a massive room with loads of beds and hot tub! Can decide on the day pretty much so all good.

And I think there are some people that would call each and every one of us an internet weirdo But amongst this company? No, I'm not :)

3. Thanks for the offer of the lift we can split that too if convenient. Or Maybe we'll bump into someone else too and get a mini bus.

4. Laptop - ace, I'll only bring my 'enigma machine' if I have room in my luggage. I suppose we'll be running a pretty identical routes, both being helis of sorts. It could be a great comparison! Although for info I'm defo going for the wicket :)

7. Any standby telem greatly recieved, I'm giving the xbees a service right now, I should have set these in acetate or something when I got them, the airside one lay in the garden for a week...

Now I've not flown in 10 days... better get my arse in gear.

[DaveC]

I somehow missed the part of the sentence 'delivering tea with the quad' after 'Dronecon', just to clarify...

[Randy Mackay]

Rob,

     My understanding is that the limit of 2 batteries only applies to the really big ones.
                     3S > 9009 mAh
                     4S > 6756 mAh

     For smaller batteries my interpretation is that there are no limits on the number you can bring.

-Randy

---

From: Chris Anderson <ch...@3drobotics.com>
To: drones-discuss <drones-...@googlegroups.com>; Joseph Aletky <jos...@3drobotics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: [drones-discuss] Re: AVC Panic

[Robert Lefebvre]

Oh, and Dave, I might be interested in the bike ride.  I'd have to see what you come up with.  Adventure bike big YES.  Harley, no thanks.  I had actually thought about renting a 4x4 and taking a trip in to the desert, but didn't have any interest.

[DaveC]

Ok couple of things. I agree on the battery thing, If each battery is less than 100wh, and my 4ah 4s's are (about 59 by my reckoning) then the limits do not apply.

Therefore am going to bring batteries in what I see to be the safest and most open route. I am going to take 8* 4000mah 4s batterys, in 4 flame proof bags in my hand luggage. This way i can monitor them and I'm not in breech of anything. I hope. Wish me luck.

More exciting than that, Rob, how does this grab you?

One of these (Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200)

And one of these (KTM 990 adventure dakar)...

 

 

(They don't have the big beemers available this weekend unfortunately, but read on..)

Delivered to twin lakes hotel at 830 am on Sunday the 9th, picked up 9am Monday 10th. 

Including two helmets, jackets, trousers, set of gloves and boots, full insurances and waivers...

Wait for it......

$208 each.

And we can both ride both bikes, fully insured.

If anyone else wants to join us they have plenty of triumph and BMW 800s available still, and they are about $20 cheaper. We can bike-pool so we all get to try everything.

Let me know Rob and I'll book em. Of if you're not keen on those steeds I have a couple of other places to try.

Oooh and it's sunny tomorrow, so I'm 'wicket' practicing :)  

Randy, I'll let you know how i find RC3.

[DaveC]

A further investigation brings some DR650's to light, same deal, a bit cheaper than the above. We could get offroad adventurous then.... 

[DaveC]

I will of course have the quad with gopro following the tablet as we blast about the countryside - would be rude not to on such a weekend...

[Robert Lefebvre]

Hmmm.... those would be perfect.  Maybe a bit big but...  I've got a WR250X.  Rode a Ninja 900RR back in '98 and almost killed myself on it.  But I've wanted the KTM pretty bad.

I'd have to see if I can move my flight, and talk with the wife.  I'll let you know.  I actually have a small licensing problem...  We have "graduated licensing" in Ontario.  Written test, get your full M1.  Can't drive on fast highways or with passengers.  2 months later, you can do a simple road test to get M2, only restriction left is 0 alcohol level.  Then within 5 years, you do another road test to get your full M license.  But if you don't then you lose it all and have to start at the beginning.  And guess what I did?  Another casualty to arducopter. ;)

DR650, no way man!  But something like Kawasaki Versys would be nice.  

When you say pick up on Monday, is that Monday morning, so it's like a 24 hour rental?  Bummer it's not enough time I think to actually make it to the grand canyon and back.

[Leonard Hall]

Hmm, I have to fly out Sunday night but half a day of riding......... Very tempting.

[DaveC]

Ah ha! Great to hear you are coming too Leonard, glad I'm not the only loon flying half way around the globe for this little jolly.

I've had a ktm 640lc, they are a dream, I'd love a go on the superduke but haven't found one yet, and that 990 is a proper desert bike. Plus they have triumph explorer 800's - very similar, and arguably more capable than a versus.

I own a WR400, and have ridden 3 different DR650's - I have to say the DR is a pussycat, less hairy than your 250 believe it or not and it's loads of fun. But I'm totally open to suggestion, as long as I've got 2 wheels then I'm happy. 

The hire example i gave was just that. We could have the bikes dropped saturday evening, and picked up sunday, or monday morning but that would be an extra day - we could do a evening blast into the canyon on Saturday (maybe miss the aftershow party though), stay there then take the long route back on sunday. As I say, your call, I don't fly out till 5pm Monday.

I'll have another look at options.

[DaveC]

There are 2 places in boulder with bikes that they will deliver

http://www.houseofmotorrad.com/our_motorcycles.html this is who i describe above, no 1200 bmw's but everything else (inc the 800 bmw's).

http://www.wdsma.com/ - all bikes available as of yesterday

There are a couple of others in denver and aurora, but i think delivery charges may start to play a factor.

[Robert Lefebvre]

Hi Dave, 

I'm going to have to pass on this.  I've just got too much stuff going on at work right now.  It was painful enough just getting the 2 days approved.  Going for another would be even worse. 

Pretty bummed, because I've been wanting to explore that area for a long time.  But such is life.

--

[DaveC]

No probs, although you are going to kick yourself when mine arrives over breakfast :).

When are you flying in/out for car share purposes? 

I suppose that goes for everyone really?!

I land in Denver at 21:23 on the wednesday- leaving Monday.

If you wish to keep you travel plans out of the public arena, Pm me.

[Robert Lefebvre]

Randy, just revisiting this because I haven't found a suitable source of batteries to borrow in Colorado.  You're right, that my 4S 5000 mAh batteries should be OK, and we're allowed a virtually unlimited amount since they're less than 100 mAh?  So I guess I'll give it a shot.  At a minimum, I need 2 4S 5000mAh batteries and 1 2S 2200mAh.  Not sure if having only 1 set is going to be OK, or if I can actually get on the plane with 2 sets or not.

I'll have to build a crate for the heli tonight.  And it will be an oversize baggage.  Might need some TSA approved padlocks for it or something?

[Randy Mackay]

Rob,

     I have no idea about the padlock.

     I have 2 extra 4S 5300 batteries that I'll bring as well.  That will at least increase the chances that some suitable batteries get there.

-Randy

---

From: Robert Lefebvre <robert....@gmail.com>
To: drones-discuss <drones-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 10:13 PM

[Robert Lefebvre]

The problem is the connectors.  I'm using XT90's.  Joe Aletky offered some 4S 4000's which would work, but they use Deans connectors.

So, this appears to be a non-issue, but I guess we'll see.

Is there a hobby shop in Boulder?  I could bring the 450 heli as backup, without batteries, and just buy them there if I have to.  3S 2200 should only be ~$20?  

[Robert Lefebvre]

Also have to figure out floatation yet.  How about zip tying some empty soda bottles to the frame?  I could probably get a 2L bottle between the skids which would give 2kg of floatation.

[DaveC]

I'm bringing a swimming 'noodle' some scissors and gaffer tape, I'm going to tape as much noodle to the frame as i dare. It will detract slightly from the 'death star' appearance, but it's better than going diving. I should have some spare noodle.

I too have decided that none of my batteries are over the limit, so i'm bringing 6 at least. All in brand new fireproof bags - two checked 'installed in the device' terminals wrapped, 4-6 in my hand luggage, again wrapped and bagged. Oh and a copy of the regulations handily on top.

[DaveC]

Oh they are 4s by the way with xt60 on them (all tested to over 100a), 4000's and 4500's 35-76C, and i've got y-cables (parallel only though) - I'll make up a couple of xt60-xt-90's adaptor leads tonight if you like, with a lot of solder! 

If today was anything to go by I'll be straight in the drink on my first run and you can use the rest of my batteries :)

[Robert Lefebvre]

Yeah... one thing I'm worried about with any kinda half-arsed floatation installation is that it will get ripped off on impact.  Probably less of a concern on a quad.

I've been wanting to build a bolt-on boat hull, because operating over water is in my long term plans anyway.

It wouldn't be hard to build.  A 12" square of 1/8" G-10, with 4" of foam glued to the bottom will provide 20lbs of floatation.  Even better would be 12"x24", with maybe 3" of foam.  Nice and streamlined.  Pretty easy to make too.  Some contact glue, 4 holes, done.  

Running out of time!  I haven't gotten to a ball drop mechanism yet, but that's a minor detail at this point.  If I can't, no big deal.

[Randy Mackay]

     I use Dean connectors so my 4S batts are all Deans.  I'm pretty sure I've got a dean->xt60 around somewhere so I'll bring that if I can find it.

Rob,
     Post AVC I'm happy to take the lead on merging your heli stuff into master.

-Randy

---

From: DaveC <da...@wylam.co.uk>
To: drones-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 11:05 PM

--
Chris Anderson

CEO, 3D Robotics

ch...@3drobotics.com

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[Randy Mackay]

DaveC.

     Sorry, I forgot to mention, I'd like to borrow some of the swimming noodle if there is any to spare.  I couldn't find them in Japan.

-Randy

---

From: Randy Mackay <rmac...@yahoo.com>
To: "drones-...@googlegroups.com" <drones-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 12:34 PM

[DaveC]

I have a noodle and a half - there should be plenty to go around. I have another GPS, but a spare would be great and a mag too actually, as i snapped my spare in half yesterday. Actually sparkfun have them in stock so that should be less of an issue.

Are 3dr bringing any frame spares do you know ( Craig/Chris?), it's the only thing i don't have two of, and mines a bit bent after yesterdays high speed annihilation! 

In other news i have found several hobby shops in and around denver, so if my batteries are confiscated I will be doing a shop run.

Also i get there early (weds night) and i have hired a big SUV, so if anyone needs picking up from the airport (and I've finished my build) I'll come get you if you like.

My number is +44 (0) 7931924772. just send me a text or whatever, and I'll let you know if i have time to get you.

[Robert Lefebvre]

Randy, these should be available at any Walmart in the area, since they're in-season.  Very common item.

So it sounds like there was some battery on flight conversation last night, anything new I should know about?  Am I still good?

[Robert Lefebvre]

Dave, the video of your ball throw is seriously amazing.  I can't believe it.  And the acceleration rate!  Holy crap!

My heli on 2.9.1 can go fast in a straight line, but takes it's sweet time getting there!

[Robert Lefebvre]

Oh, and speaking of panic... can anybody give me some hints on a super simple ball-drop?  I did a quick test flight of my 600 last night (had't flown in a month, since the crash) and it went well.  And got my crate banged together.  But the ball drop is last in line.

[Ritchie Wilson]

There was basic code for it a couple of years ago using some Newtonian physics and current location as a check.

I'm at work so can't check but search for egg drop

Regards

Ritchie.

[Robert Lefebvre]

Actually, I'm just looking for the mechanism.  I'm planning on coming to a stop, unlike Dave... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gpb7J-f8ZA

There's no doubt that I could come up with something, but I've just run out of time. And knowing me I'll fire up the mill and spend hours overkilling it.   I just need something stupid simple.

[Robert Lefebvre]

I'm going to try to bring my laptop, and will work on it on Thursday/Friday, and hopefully test with my 450, then the 600.  My changes are actually not that big.  Or, there's been a lot of trial and error but it's been distilled down to a few simple changes.

Do you think I can take my entire AP_MotorsHeli file and just drop it right into the post-HAL code?  Or are there changes there?

And for the competition, I can probably do without my changes anyway.  Just, watching Dave's ball-drop video, it's pretty clear how superior 3.0 is.  I don't think there's any way I can win with 2.9.  No matter the top speed the top speed of the heli, I lose a lot of time starting and stopping as it's so much slower.

[Ritchie Wilson]

Cut off pipe holding egg + long servo arm 😊

Regards

Ritchie.

[Randy Mackay]

Rob,

     I'm pretty sure that you won't be able to simply drop the 2.9.1 AP_MotorsHeli file into master.  Still, I think the changes will be pretty small though...just some replacements of some functions with their equivalents.

     I flew a bunch of test runs with 3.0-rc5 on my 3dr quad today and it performed very well.  All very reliable and expected.  I hope it flies as well on the big day.

-Randy

---

From: Robert Lefebvre <robert....@gmail.com>
To: drones-discuss <drones-...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 10:00 PM

[Randy Mackay]

Rob,

     Here's a video of my ball dropper.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG9OwXj4Ev4

     I'm actually bringing two quads...the one in the video is the beater with the home made release mechanism.  The prettier quad uses this "fourmost bomp release" https://www.petenplanes.com.au/hardware-items/fourmost-bomb-release/prod_669.html

     I have two extra of those release thingmies which I'll bring along.

-Randy

---

From: Randy Mackay <rmac...@yahoo.com>
To: "drones-...@googlegroups.com" <drones-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 10:21 PM

[Leonard Hall]

Hi Robert,

 

All I did was use a 50mm length of plastic push rod and glue it onto a similarly sized piece of 6mm balsa. The pushrod has an outer straw and inner straw that takes the standard threaded rod and cheap pushrod link. After gluing the pushrod to the balsa I just cut a slot in it to take a screw in eyelet. The flexible inner straw made it pretty easy to hook it up to the servo.

 

See you soon!

Leonard

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[Doug]

Hey All,

I have done a poor job keeping track of schedule and it turns out this week is the week my wife had scheduled to have our hardwood floors redone.  As a consequence my shop will not be available Thursday to Sunday.  I am housesitting another home nearby and have access to some tools, but not my normal assortment.

If anyone happens to know something they would like to have access to here please tell me ASAP and I'll try to get it out of my house tonight.

In case someone needs to do some serious work on site I can always get you in to my lab at the university.

Doug

[DaveC]

Thanks Rob, it's a beaut, even if i do say so myself. I love the way it throws the ball just before waypoint, from 15m, but by the time I've caught it, the quad has hit the waypoint and is 5m+ on its way to the next one, in the opposite direction, having done the best part of a 180. It's amazing, well done lads, I can take very little credit!

Dare I say that was a half-speed test....

My ball dropper is almost identical to Randy's and Leonards, i just dremelled my bottom plate and poked the eye hook through there, with the copper servo linkage fed through a tube and zip tie. Any flat surface will do, I've tried mine at all angles, 100% success. And I'm bringing a spare - 10 mins to fit to a heli max. I must cut a bit more off the cooker cable before I go to bed.... the copper inner makes a lovely servo linkage :)

I'm also bringing a fairly comprehensive tool kit - gas soldering and dremel included. Consequently i will be wearing the same clothes for a week, so apologies in advance for that.

My bag is ridiculous, If i get a paranoid customs official I'm screwed! It is however lined with AVC print outs and my hotel details etc, so once they stop reeling from the x-ray they should realise pretty quick I'm an innocent!

[DaveC]

Yeah, you need to get practising with 3.0. Your 600 could make us all look sick! The only advantage i would have over you then would be i can land a bit harder!

[jason...@mac.com]

Hi Doug,

 I won't bring a soldering iron. Can you grab your solder station?

Also a hot air gun for shrink.

Jason

Sent from my HTC One

----- Reply message -----
From: "Doug" <dewe...@gmail.com>
To: <drones-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [drones-discuss] Re: AVC Panic

Date: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 11:37 AM

Hey All,

I have done a poor job keeping track of schedule and it turns out this week is the week my wife had scheduled to have our hardwood floors redone.  As a consequence my shop will not be available Thursday to Sunday.  I am housesitting another home nearby and have access to some tools, but not my normal assortment.

If anyone happens to know something they would like to have access to here please tell me ASAP and I'll try to get it out of my house tonight.

In case someone needs to do some serious work on site I can always get you in to my lab at the university.

Doug

--

[DaveC]

I just treated myself to a 30-125w gas soldering iron, it's in the bag, give me a shout if you or anyone needs it.

[Robert Lefebvre]

Yeah, I dunno if I'll be able to do it in time.  We'll see.  I still have a lot of stuff to do. I haven't even started packing yet!

It will largely depend on if I can do test flights on Friday.

I'm going to have to make a boat hull to bolt on the bottom still...

[Robert Lefebvre]

Ok, I picked up some eyelets. And I have lots of pushrod hardware.  So, you guys are just using a do set servo command or something?

Leonard, do you think the 3.0 Nav program can hold up to 30 m/s speeds, or will it break down?

[Leonard Hall]

I haven't found any problem (and don't expect any) with maximum speed but I have only got it to around 15m/s. I find that you need to be a bit carful with maximum accelerations but I suspect that is mainly if the accelerations are not smooth.

 

So provided your maximum speed doesn't start causing vertical ocilations and your accelerations don't cause significant buffeting (like hard stops in the copter going through it's own prop wash), then it will handle everything fine. Oh, and maximum speed doesn't shift the baro by 5 m or something silly.

 

So I am looking forward to hearing how 3.0 goes on a heli :)

 

Chat soon,

[Gareth Owen]

Robert, Dave,

This is a bit premature, but having only just discovered avc it is too late for me to come this gear. But, I would be up for going next year and on a motorbike trip beforehand or after.

I'd need to book it around march time though as I'd be travelling from London.

Best
Gareth

[Robert Lefebvre]

Ah, now *that* would be great.  Can you tell me the dimensions between the center of the two mounting screws, and then the length between that pull clevis, to the center point of the two mounting screws?  I could then cut a plate and just bolt it on when I get there. That would help me out a lot.

Thanks,

Rob

[DaveC]

Rob, i've got everything you need, including plates, tools, servos and links, give me a shout when you arrive.

 

In other news i made it from London to Vegas, and am just about to board frontier airlines to denver - they are 'satisfied' with my cargo, they say.

 

 

I have on me, three quad frames, 4 flight controllers, one tx, and two tool boxes, but more importantly..

 

4* 4s4000,

4* 4s4500,

3* 4s2650

2* 3s 1800

1* 3s 3000

 

 

They were (rightly) not happy about them of any being in my checked bags, but let me stick the whole 20lbs+ in hand luggage. I did have to go on about how my lipo bags were a benefit not a safety issue though... 

 

I was stopped and thoroughly questioned at every opportunity, but the official line from the airlines and the FAA is that unless you batts are 100wh or bigger the restrictions don't apply. Although it will take them a while (and some pleading) to let you through. I was most worried when someone started to add up the capacities. He took some convincing.

 

Make sure you tape up your terminals though, i was asked about this at every stop.

 

GOod luck!

 

 

 

[Randy Mackay]

DaveC,

      Great that you got through.  I shall tape up my terminals right now!

-Randy

---

From: DaveC <da...@wylam.co.uk>
To: drones-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [drones-discuss] Re: AVC Panic - ball dropper video

[Robert Lefebvre]

Thanks Dave.  I guess I should be covered either way with the ball drop.  Though I haven't sorted out floatation yet...  

I did go out for a test flight of the rebuilt 600, and it went pretty well.  I put on the asymmetric blades for the first time, figure they'll help with the thinner air.

I did determine that 2.9.1 navigation is just no good at these higher speeds.  I did an RTL at 25 m/s, it doesn't even try to stop and just goes blasting by the landing zone.  Even at 10 m/s, it's a bit loose.  I guess the whole deceleration code didn't apply to RTL.

Don't party too hard in Vegas. ;)

 

 

 

--

[Mark Colwell]

Dace, Good to hear that your trip is going well, all those large batteries too. Slots are hot at the airport. Robert, regular blades will work just fine I can bring some as spares. See you Friday.

[Mark Colwell]

Dave, Good to hear that your trip is going well, all those large batteries too. Slots are hot at the airport.

Robert, regular blades will work just fine, I can bring some as spares. See you Friday.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 7:07 PM, Robert Lefebvre <robert....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Robert Lefebvre]

Hey Dave, so what exactly did you say to customs?  

Wondering if I should be 100% forthcoming (ie: going to a drone competition).  Or be more reserved (RC Helicopter contest)?  The later obviously helps smooth things over, but if things start getting difficult, obviously the more upfront you were the less bad it gets.

On 5 June 2013 20:27, DaveC <da...@wylam.co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

--

[Gareth Owen]

Ive thought about this a bit.  My personal view is you should just say model aircraft competition and stick to that description.  If you change the description that'd raise eyebrows.

The description is accurate albeit mildly simplified.

I think as soon as you say drone you risk causing yourself lots of hassle because they'll start thinking military equipment.

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[Robert Lefebvre]

Yeah, see, the only thing is that it quickly goes down the road them asking "oh yeah?  Where"  "Oh, here's a printout, Sparkfun AVC"  "Autonomous, what does that mean?  Oh, so it can fly itself.  So it's like a drone?"

I think I'll lead with RC Heli competition, but be upfront once they start questioning it.

[Gareth Owen]

I think autonomous sounds fine. Just avoid the word drone.  I often go to cyber warfare conferences and just say "computer security" when asked and have had no trouble - (albeit without a quad).

If it is going in the hold you might consider putting a card in your case with phone (e.g. sparkfun and 3dr)  numbers and web links so they can quickly rule you out as someone of concern.

[Robert Lefebvre]

Just got on the plane. But they took all my batteries.

[DaveC]

I told them exactly what i was up to, and handed over a copy of the AVC paperwork. I didn't use the word 'drone' though!

They were all impressed and wished me good luck! (I had to clarify that i was carrying a multirotor heli to those that just looked at me vacantly!

[Craig Elder]

Not good.

Maybe we need to be travelling with a copy of the regulations as well

[DaveC]

Ah shit! How come? All of them? That was particularly mean!

What did they take? Can you get them back?

[DaveC]

Yes i had a copy of the virgin policy docs and the FAA regulations, that defo helped put some of them at ease.

By the way tape all of your terminals up, including the balance leads, and i also think my lipo bags may have helped.

[Brandon Jones]

I dumped my batteries out into the xray tray for full disclosure with the TSA FAQ sheet inside my lipo bag.  They did a bag check on me, and pulled out my printed out FAQ sheet, read it, then sent me on my way without any personal interaction.  So I think having the regs printed out saved me a lot of trouble!

-Brandon

[Greg Fletcher]

Doug, I was wondering if you have a field nearby where I might do some last min test flights. I have my AMA card. And could you pm me your address and cell # ? I promise I won't bug you too much.

[Craig Elder]

That worked for all the 3DR folk coming from SD

[Robert Lefebvre]

Yup all of them. I ended up arguing with this lady who didnt know what a Wh was. She wanted it printed on the battery. It wasnt. I told her i could show her how to calculate it and she said 'you could be lying through your teeth.'

The US customs were jerks too. Joking about confiscating my copter and how much they could get at auction.

[Mark Colwell]

The auction house must be full of Lipo batteries, pocket knives, scissors and BIC lighters. No room for a Big Heli. Sorry but air travel sucks these days. Be Glad you are on your way.  If they "take your Hell" I have one you can use (read Crash).

[jason...@mac.com]

Just picked up a huge pool noodle if anyone wants to share

Sent from my HTC

----- Reply message -----
From: "Robert Lefebvre" <robert....@gmail.com>
To: "drones-discuss" <drones-...@googlegroups.com>

[DaveC]

Rob, just been chatting to Doug, he has some 11000mah 5s at the uni that he should be able to liberate, or ive got 4s you could hook up together, i didn't have any xt90's though. But i do have a soldering iron.

I had a look at the course this afternoon, and had a bit of a fly about that resulted in a hefty crash in the reeds just feet from the lake. I gotta say, that water looks very... wet.

Is anyone at twin lakes tonight? It's very quiet!

[Randy Mackay]

Rob, leonard and i are at the springhill suites. We hear craig and all have arrived but cant find them -Randy

---

From: DaveC <da...@wylam.co.uk>;
To: <drones-...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [drones-discuss] Re: AVC Panic - ball dropper video
Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:12:54 AM

[Robert Lefebvre]

Yeah, gonna have to be 5S is probably too much.  But the connectors are a problem.  I'll have to see what to do.

What would be best, I need a 3S 2200, and 2S very small, for the 450 heli. I could even make due with 5 or 6 cell NiMh. That should be easy. And I do have connectors.

[DaveC]

I'm gonna have to miss dronecon, My quad is not behaving so gonna spend the day rebuilding. Let me know if you are going for food/beer this evening, I'll come and find you.

[Greg Fletcher]

  Hello every one, Although my plane is ready and the auto ball drop is working, and I have just finished a beautiful new catapult launcher, I will have to forfeit this year. I was up all night building the launcher (darn rules!) and there is just no way I can drive all night and fly with no sleep. I gave it my best shot and just ran out of time. In the interest of safety, I will not end up in a ditch along I80 in the middle of the night.
     Good luck everyone!! Wish I could be there.


 Greg