Mel Gibson Korean War Movie

[Placido Teofilo]

Iwouldn't be as keen to go out and buy a Korean Casino, Sheraton, Riviera or Sorrento now knowing for a bit extra I can get a much more faithful replica of the 60s model that originally had its name.

Not saying that I would rule it out completely as I like the Korean stuff, especially the peerless hollowbodies, but I'd be reluctant to pay the prices they were going for 5 years ago, now. It wasn't uncommon for one of those to go for 450+ when Epiphone moved exclusively to China but now you can find 61 and IBJL Casinos as well as the new reissues selling for less than 600.

I think some may always prefer the Korean Epi Sheraton's. Can't speak about the other models, as I have NO experience, there. But, I know a lot of folks like the 5-piece laminated necks, on the Korean versions, as well as their overall quality. The Chinese versions had a bit of a "time of it," at first, but seem to be very nicely made, now. I've "heard" (but, not seen...yet, anyway) that the Chinese have started incorporating that 5-piece neck, in their standard Sheraton. Don't know if that's a fact, or "wishful thinking?" Maybe someone on here can comfirm or deny that? However, I DO (much) prefer the body sillouette, on the Chinese versions. It's more the traditional "Gibson" style...in horn shape, waist location, and lower bout size, and style. So, IF they're now putting on the "Korean style" 5-piece necks, they'd be just about "perfect!," as long as the pickups and hardware are "decent." One can always change those, on either version, to one's own preferences.

I've owned dozens of Epi's over the years and think the Chinese are better. Epiphone's factory, new machinery and tooling, they control the whole process. Now they're turning out the guitars they've always wanted to. The workmanship is very good, and they're much more consistent overall. 1990's Koreans varied a lot, the quality of some just wasn't as good. The grover tuners that Epi's been using lately are excellent, tough and reliable, never had a problem with them. In comparison the 1990's Koreans usually had cheap generic tuners. There's no comparison between the upgraded humbuckers Epi's had the last couple years, to the cheap ones in Koreans. The electronics are better now too (many Koreans had mini-pots).

What concerns me about 1990's Koreans, besides the inconsistency and spotty quality, is that 1) a lot of them have serious fret wear; the fret metal isn't made to last decades, and refret jobs are expensive, 2) many have scratches, dents, dings, gouges, chips of finish missing, etc, and 3) the claims of Koreans being better are pretty much the realm of sellers as an excuse to jack up their prices. I've seen some flagrant examples of this on eBay, for guitars that aren't half as good as the current production Chinese models. As more players find out about the high quality and reasonable prices of the new models, they'll wise up and Korean prices will fall. I think just prior to the switch to Chinese production in 2003, the Koreans improved, for whatever reason, but they're still not any better than the Chinese ones. Another plus for 2000+ production (Chinese and Korean) is that there's been so many great limited editions, far beyond the 1990's.

I've "heard" (but, not seen...yet, anyway) that the Chinese have started incorporating that 5-piece neck, in their standard Sheraton. Don't know if that's a fact, or "wishful thinking?" Maybe someone on here can comfirm or deny that?

I do love the Peerless Casinos. My first Casino was a 1997 Peerless Casino and I'm thinking about buying another one now. One of the reasons this thread came about because the seller was giving it the usual "better than the Chinese Casinos" but as myself and the seller are both Beatles fans, we both know that you can pick up a second hand IBJL Casino for 500 or less. There was one selling in my city a couple of weeks ago for 450 and the Peerless Casino is also selling for 450 which got me thinking.

I only want that Peerless Casino for sentimental reasons but I know for the same money I can get one of equally good build and better electronics which is more accurate to a 60s style Casino than the Peerless one and would have better resale value.

That being said, I have owned Peerless, Saein, Samick and Unsung Epiphones. Dots, Dot Deluxe, Casinos, Sheratons, Rivieras and I have never been unhappy with the quality. But compared to the newer trend of Chinese 60s tribute models, I think they are aesthetically less pleasing.

I have upgraded the electronics (wiring, not pickups) on most of my Korean models, but I also got most of them for under original cost.Granted the early 2000 Chinese had their issues, but so did some Koreans.

As for whether the new quality would put me off of buying a clean Korean, I don't think so.The 90s Korean models will not be reproduced (I doubt Epiphone will ever produce a "96 Period Correct Peerless Casino Reissue")Epiphone produced some great reissues and originals (Del Rey, for one) that I keep looking for and will buy.I also keep looking at the new models which I like and will probably purchase depending on model.

The various Korean factories employed by Epiphone have all displayed a level of tightly QCed construction - some a bit more so than others at various points in time, but universally Samick, Peerless, Saein, and Unsung have built very fine guitars as they competed for Epi contracts. The common weakness (to varying degrees) was electronics & hardware - an aspect of construction which the Korean factories had no control over.

Now it seems as if the equation has flipped to some extent. The strengthening of pickups, switches, tuners, etc, has become apparent, but there have been many posts regarding spotty build quality from Gibson's Chinese factories. And interestingly, this aspect of construction is completely in the hands of Gibson - exactly the stated rationale for pulling out of Korea (of course along with cheaper labor!).

I may be wrong, but I've a hunch that if it has an "Epiphone" brand (for real), the deciding factor likely will be the playability, degree of wear, and asking price versus desire of the buyer more than the particular factory.

early '10 '56 GoldTop LP was my 1st China Epi, and was a disaster when it arrived.....neck needed 2 adjustments right away just to be playable, one p'up wasn't even screwed into the body, literally hanging under the strings....bad 3-way & bad input socket.

It's more mellow than my other Dot, which is a 2010 Chinese made Natural. It has a repaired neck break, but it also has Gibson 490's installed, and I have replaced the bridge and TP with older versions, which I prefer. It is also a great player, but much more of a rock & roll guitar. I think the quality of the Chinese made Epiphones is extremely good..I feel the 2 Dots are different, but I can't say one is really better - just different. I really love them both.

I just got a MIJ Epi Casino Elitist, which cost about 4 times what I paid for the other 2 Dots combined, and I have to say it's a totally different animal. I'm still getting familiar with it, but the quality s certainly there.

I think the bottom line is that Epiphone's are "production guitars"... IE. for all intents and purposes they're never going to be "collectible" so to speak, regardless of the factory or country or wherever else they were made - that's all just second hand marketing BS! There are just way too many of them out there. If it's a good guitar, it's a good guitar period. The shortcomings of many Epiphones (as well as any low/mid priced production guitar)are well documented (electronics, QC, etc.) and will continue regardless of origin. It's just the reality of producing large #'s of instruments. Caveat Emptor - do your homework and you should be able to find a good one that should give you many years of reliable service. Don't expect to sell it for any more than you originally paid for it - more likely you'll get less than you paid regardless of what mod's you've made to it. Good luck and go play!

Well, maybe not. I was around for the crappy Asian guitars of the 1960's and 1970's. Most of them were horrible. I never would have believed that imports could be of the quality that Epi's been doing for more than a decade now. An increasing number of imports are coming stock with much better PU's, including American-made ones, and some have high quality electronics. There's millions of guitar players all over the world today, and they're demanding more and more value. With the internet, musicians are better-informed and more saavy than ever. It's an incredibly competitive market. I expect imports to keep improving in quality until they eventually catch up with American-mades. The Japanese have already done it. It's only a matter of time for China and Korea. Many American-made guitars are priced well above their cost, and that's forcing many of them to offer budget product lines if they want to sell in decent quanities, and those aren't much better than today's imports. The distinctions are getting blurred and will continue to.

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