Blokfløjte - barok eller tysk?
Tom
barokfløjte eller en tysk?
Når jeg studerer billeder på fx. eskildsen.dk er der for mig at se
ingen synlig forskel.
Mvh
Tom Jensen
(Har tidligere spurgt på dk.kultur.musik men der er der vist ikke så
mange blokfløjte-kyndige :)
Ole Helms
>Hvordan kan jeg se om den blokfl=F8jte jeg har liggende i skuffen er en
>barokfl=F8jte eller en tysk?
>N=E5r jeg studerer billeder p=E5 fx. eskildsen.dk er der for mig at se
>ingen synlig forskel.
Jeg mener at kunne huske, at dobbelt huller hører til barokfløjten.
http://www.gibonus.com/images/flety_foto/barok.jpg
--
Venligst
Ole Helms
Tom
> Jeg mener at kunne huske, at dobbelt huller hører til barokfløjten.
> http://www.gibonus.com/images/flety_foto/barok.jpg
>
Yamaha blokfløjten med tysk greb har også dobbelte huller, se:
http://blaes.eskildsen.dk/ShowProductGroup.aspx?CategoryCode=HK2
Mvh
Tom Jensen
Heikki
> Yamaha blokfløjten med tysk greb har også dobbelte huller, se:
> http://blaes.eskildsen.dk/ShowProductGroup.aspx?CategoryCode=HK2
Single or double holes have nothing to do with it. It is a matter of the
size and position of the hole for the first finger for the right hand - the
one you close to play an F on a c-soprano. If that F is way too high with
only that one hole closed, you have a 'baroque' instrument, and need to
close the last tow holes as well. That is as it should be. If that
instrument sounds a good F with just one finger of the right hand, you have
a 'german' instrument, which you should break, discard, or give to some
unsuspecting fool immediately. It may be useful for teaching the basics for
little children, but has no place in serious music making.
Regards
Heikki
P.S. Sorry about writing in English, but it is *so* much more readable than
my bad Danish ;-)
Peter Weis
> P.S. Sorry about writing in English, but it is *so* much more readable than
> my bad Danish ;-)
Det er OK ;-)
mvh
Peter
Per Vadmand
If that instrument sounds a good F with just one finger
> of the right hand, you have a 'german' instrument, which you should
> break, discard, or give to some unsuspecting fool immediately. It may
> be useful for teaching the basics for little children, but has no
> place in serious music making.
Sikke noget vrøvl. En tysk blokfløjte er langt lettere at spille på end en
barokfløjte, og der er ingen forskel i klangen.
--
Per V.
"Jeg siger konsekvent nej tak til politik - jeg har så mange andre
muligheder for at råbe op. Jeg har aldrig været medlem af noget parti -
for jeg har aldrig haft konstant sympati nok til det."
Uffe Ellemann Jensen, "Alt for Damerne" 26.9.1974.
Heikki
> Heikki wrote:
> If that instrument sounds a good F with just one finger
>> of the right hand, you have a 'german' instrument, which you should
>> break, discard, or give to some unsuspecting fool immediately. It may
>> be useful for teaching the basics for little children, but has no
>> place in serious music making.
>
> Sikke noget vrøvl. En tysk blokfløjte er langt lettere at spille på end en
> barokfløjte, og der er ingen forskel i klangen.
You are - of course - entitled to your opinion. But I stick with mine!
As such, the "german" recorders are easier to play in the bottom octave, but
as soon as you start to play serious music, you will need to get higher up,
and there you meet the problems. The first one comes with a F# one octave
up from the bottom. On a baroque recorder you just take it (0) 123 -5--
but on a german one there is no decent way to take it. The best you can do
is (0) 123 -(5)-- That is, half thumb, all left hand fingers, and a half
hole on the right middle finger. Getting that half hole precisely right in
a quick passage is much more difficult than learning the necessary cross
fingerings.
The "baroque" system is, as its name implies, the way they used to do it in
the baroque times, which was clearly the high times for the recorders. Even
today, those who study the instrument seriously, all play on the baroque
system instruments. As far as I know, all the historic instruments from the
baroque times (say 1650-1750) use about the same system. (the earlier ones
may be more varied, but I know none that use anything like the modern
"german" system). Also, all the serious books on recorder playing that I
have seen, take the "baroque" system for granted. I don't know any
professional player using the "german" system.
As far as I recall, the "german" system was developed somewhere in the early
half of the last century, as a simplified way to teach children to play
their first instrument. For that it may (or may not) have its uses.
Anyway, if your "german" recorder fits your needs, then by all means enjoy
playing it. I stick to my "baroque" style, and I recommend it to anyone
interested in playing the recorder.
Best regards
Heikki
Per Vadmand
> Per Vadmand wrote:
>
>> Heikki wrote:
>> If that instrument sounds a good F with just one finger
>>> of the right hand, you have a 'german' instrument, which you should
>>> break, discard, or give to some unsuspecting fool immediately. It
>>> may be useful for teaching the basics for little children, but has
>>> no place in serious music making.
>>
>> Sikke noget vrøvl. En tysk blokfløjte er langt lettere at spille på
>> end en barokfløjte, og der er ingen forskel i klangen.
>
> You are - of course - entitled to your opinion. But I stick with mine!
>
blokfløjte. Hvad bygger du din på?
Heikki
> Mange tak. Jeg bygger min vurdering på 50 års erfaring med at spille
> blokfløjte. Hvad bygger du din på?
Not nearly as long experience, only 30-some years. Plus a bit of reading in
relevant books, studying at several good teachers, and hanging around
serious baroque people. You are almost the only one to speak good of the
"german" system that I have met.
Looks like none of us is going to convince the other. Shouldn't we leave it
at this?
- Heikki
Tom
> Single or double holes have nothing to do with it. It is a matter of the
> size and position of the hole for the first finger for the right hand - the
> one you close to play an F on a c-soprano. If that F is way too high with
> only that one hole closed, you have a 'baroque' instrument, and need to
> close the last tow holes as well. That is as it should be. If that
> instrument sounds a good F with just one finger of the right hand, you have
> a 'german' instrument, which you should break, discard, or give to some
Lyder som et rent F sammenlignet med et elektronisk keyboard når jeg
holder for det ene hul.
Tonehøjden ændrer sig ikke hvis jeg samtidigt holder for de sidste 2
sæt huller men det er måske OK?
Mvh
Tom Jensen
(Blokfløjte-analfabet:)
Heikki
Looks like I wrote wrong about the fingering above.
If you alternate between the "german" F fingering 0 123 4--- and the
"baroque" F fingering 0 123 4-67, you should hear a clear difference in the
pitch, if you can keep your airflow reasonably constant. (the numbers mean
closed thumb hole, all left hand fingers closed, and one finger of the
right hand; alternatively first, second, and fourth of the right hand)
Once you hear the difference, then you should be able to judge which of them
is closer to a real F. Calibrate your breathing pressure against the G (0
123 ----; all left hand closed, right hand open) until you get that about
right. Use the same pressure for the F experiment.
Hope that clarifies things
Heikki
Lapzig
news:440ab124$0$38619$edfa...@dread12.news.tele.dk...
>> Heikki wrote:
>> You are - of course - entitled to your opinion. But I stick with mine!
>>
> Mange tak. Jeg bygger min vurdering på 50 års erfaring med at spille
> blokfløjte. Hvad bygger du din på?
Tillykke. Du er næsten lige så bedrevidende og påståelig som Bertel.
Per Vadmand
Tak for komplimenten.
Per V.
--
Forslag til ny "Goodwin"-regel: Den, der bruger "Kejserens nye
klæder"-argumentet, har tabt.
Tom
> If you alternate between the "german" F fingering 0 123 4--- and the
> "baroque" F fingering 0 123 4-67, you should hear a clear difference in the
> pitch, if you can keep your airflow reasonably constant. (the numbers mean
> closed thumb hole, all left hand fingers closed, and one finger of the
> right hand; alternatively first, second, and fourth of the right hand)
>
> Once you hear the difference, then you should be able to judge which of them
> is closer to a real F. Calibrate your breathing pressure against the G (0
> 123 ----; all left hand closed, right hand open) until you get that about
> right. Use the same pressure for the F experiment.
Yes that did the trick. Thank you for taking the time to explain
things.
Tom
(Turns out to be a 'german' recorder :-I