Satchmo, the bloated manatee

[Bobby Roberts]

satchmo has become a bloated manatee of a codebase. Does anyone know
why it run so slowly now? Or, do you have to feed it treats or
something secretive to get it running properly? I've got two satchmo
sites on a 256mb slice at slicehost and they are pretty much unusable
at the moment.

[Jacob Kaplan-Moss]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Bobby Roberts <tche...@gmail.com> wrote:
> satchmo has become a bloated manatee of a codebase.

Hey, this isn't OK. I can tell you're frustrated, but insulting other
people's work isn't acceptable around here. You should realize there
are real people, just like you, on the other side of these insults.
Attacking them isn't nice, and won't get you the help you need.

In general, you'll find that you'll get a lot more help if you're
polite. On this particular forum, not being polite isn't acceptable,
so if you insist on insults you'll need to find somewhere else to air
them.

Thanks.

Jacob

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <ja...@jacobian.org> wrote:

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Bobby Roberts <tche...@gmail.com> wrote:
> satchmo has become a bloated manatee of a codebase. 

Hey, this isn't OK. I can tell you're frustrated, but insulting other
people's work isn't acceptable around here. You should realize there
are real people, just like you, on the other side of these insults.
Attacking them isn't nice, and won't get you the help you need.

Hold on, we are in danger of restricting the freedom of speech on this mailing list.

I think OP was just expressing his honest opinion, and his comment wasn't rude or insulting in any way.

Just because something is open source (and/or contributed to by people in their spare time) does not make it exempt from scrutiny/criticism.

In general, you'll find that you'll get a lot more help if you're
polite. On this particular forum, not being polite isn't acceptable,
so if you insist on insults you'll need to find somewhere else to air
them.

Thanks.

Jacob

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[Matt Mansour]

I have one cart running over 17K SKUs that is fast. (save for
generating product variations). It's hosted at Webfaction with a
hosting plan less powerful than yours. Have you checked the basics.
Debug mode off. Caching on. (I am not even using memcached. Just
file.). I am using Postgres.

The Satchmo group is great. I bet if you post this question there, and
leave off the first sentence, or at least tweak the tone and tenor of
it, you'll eventually get pointed in the right direction.

If you have a lot of product variations for each product you may have
to use custom products instead.

Good luck
~Matt

[Russell Keith-Magee]

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 2:16 AM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
<cal.l...@simplicitymedialtd.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <ja...@jacobian.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Bobby Roberts <tche...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > satchmo has become a bloated manatee of a codebase.
>>
>> Hey, this isn't OK. I can tell you're frustrated, but insulting other
>> people's work isn't acceptable around here. You should realize there
>> are real people, just like you, on the other side of these insults.
>> Attacking them isn't nice, and won't get you the help you need.
>
> Hold on, we are in danger of restricting the freedom of speech on this
> mailing list.
> I think OP was just expressing his honest opinion, and his comment wasn't
> rude or insulting in any way.

Yes, it really was. He opened a request for a subject line and first
sentence by comparing Satchmo to a fat, ungainly animal. That's isn't
a productive way to begin a request for help.

> Just because something is open source (and/or contributed to by people in
> their spare time) does not make it exempt from scrutiny/criticism.

There's a difference between criticism and insults.

Consider the following:

"Problems with recent Satchmo versions

I'm having some serious problems with recent versions of Satchmo. Over
the last couple of versions, it seems to have massively increased it's
memory requirements -- to the extent that my 256MB slice at Slicehost
isn't really usable any more. Am I missing something, or do I need to
feed it treats to get it to work properly"

Almost exactly the same content, but doesn't start with a slap in the
face to the developers of Satchmo.

Better still would be to document exact what he has done, why he did
it, and what he has observed. That way, someone would be able to help
him.

Better still again would be to ask the same question on the right
forum -- the Satchmo mailing list.

These aren't controversial ideas -- in fact, they should be the core
of the "how to ask questions on the mailing list" wiki page i.e.,

* Don't insult the people you want to help you
* Provide as much detail as possible
* Ask the question in the right place.

Yours,
Russ Magee %-)

[Eric Chamberlain]

On Jul 28, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:

>
> Yes, it really was. He opened a request for a subject line and first
> sentence by comparing Satchmo to a fat, ungainly animal. That's isn't
> a productive way to begin a request for help.

Now let's not dis the manatee. Here's a manatee drinking from a garden hose video <http://youtu.be/h9ikUsiIPHA> I made in front of my parent's home.

People should be respectful of manatees and open source developers.

--
Eric Chamberlain, Founder
RingFree Mobility Inc.

[Jacob Kaplan-Moss]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
<cal.l...@simplicitymedialtd.co.uk> wrote:
> Hold on, we are in danger of restricting the freedom of speech on this
> mailing list.

There is no right to free speech on a mailing list.

We already restrict what's allowed on this list. Beekeeping, wool
socks, hand grenades and a nearly infinite collection of topics are
declared off-topic. Similarly, we have certain community standards --
politeness among them -- and we can and will enforce them.

If you'd like to have an anything-goes forum where insults and flames
are tolerated then I encourage you to start your own. Around here, I
expect a certain level of decorum and I will enforce it.

Jacob

[Masklinn]

On 2011-07-29, at 01:26 , Russell Keith-Magee wrote:
> Yes, it really was. He opened a request for a subject line and first
> sentence by comparing Satchmo to a fat, ungainly animal.

Now here I draw the line, this is not acceptable. Manatees have feelings too.

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

Personally, I don't see why this has caused such a fuss.

It is quite obvious from OPs original message that it was a bit of light hearted humor.

I think the most appropriate response here would be "loosen up..?"

Cal

Jacob

[Bobby Roberts]

opinions on software should never be taken personally and should never
be silenced. I take heat over programming on a daily basis just as I
have for the past 30 years. It's part of the business. Good
programmers take it, grow from it and come back with a better product.

There was no slight intended toward the programmers and I doubt I'm
the only one that has ever said that this version is bloated or with
issues. I am sorry to the Satchmo team, and the sweet gentle aquatic
bovine If I have caused personal insult to either. I have used
Satchmo for over three years now and it's simply this version which I
believe perhaps was rushed. It seems to be behind the django
compatibility curve and some of the documentation is outdated as well
and not everything works as it should and needs serious tweaking to
the code to get it to even function.

Boot me out if you feel I need to be booted from the group. However,
that would be the biggest flame to an open source board <<<< note
this is an opinion, i'm not meaning to insult ANYONE.

If i'm allowed to stay, perhaps I will use the new WC3 <sarcasm> or
<opinion> tags to make things clear.

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Bobby Roberts <tche...@gmail.com> wrote:

opinions on software should never be taken personally and should never
be silenced.  I take heat over programming on a daily basis just as I
have for the past 30 years.  It's part of the business.  Good
programmers take it, grow from it and come back with a better product.

There was no slight intended toward the programmers and I doubt I'm
the only one that has ever said that this version is bloated or with

issues. I am sorry to the Satchmo team, and the <snip>sweet gentle aquatic
bovine</snip>

Lmao. That just made my day.

 

If I have caused personal insult to either.  I have used
Satchmo for over three years now and it's simply this version which I
believe perhaps was rushed. It seems to be behind the django
compatibility curve and some of the documentation is outdated as well
and not everything works as it should and needs serious tweaking to
the code to get it to even function.

Boot me out if you feel I need to be booted from the group.  However,
that would be the biggest flame to an open source board   <<<< note
this is an opinion, i'm not meaning to insult ANYONE.

I don't think anyone should be kicked just for voicing their own opinion.

How many times have we all said "omg X or Y is a bloated pos". How many times have we personally insulted many other products, such as Windows, Debian, Apache etc..? 

Whenever I build a new project, the first thing I do is show it to other developers which I trust, and ask for their honest opinion. They will quite often say to me "Cal, if you write code like this again, I will slap you". And it's this sort of advice which put me where I am today :)

 

If i'm allowed to stay, perhaps I will use the new WC3 <sarcasm> or
<opinion> tags to make things clear.

[Jacob Kaplan-Moss]

Hi Bobby --

I'm quite sorry if you took my words as a threat. Such wasn't my
intent -- at all. I'm simply trying to make clear certain community
expectations. You're completely right that banning would be wildly
inappropriate, and I certainly wasn't suggesting that.

The Django community has historically been known as a friendly,
accepting, professional one free of the usual flamewars that crop up
on free software. I really appreciate your help in keeping it that
way. I think we can all agree that a helpful, welcoming community is
something to be proud of.

That's the last I've got to say on the matter; at this point we're
basically going in circles. I hope I made my point clear enough. If
not, please feel free to contact me off-list so everyone else can get
back to talking about software.

Thanks!

Jacob

[Bobby Roberts]

<opinion>
<declaration>Django is the best thing since the Civil Rights
Movement.</declaration>
<statement>Satchmo is ok for the most part except for certain things
which do not work unless you correct the errors in the programming.</
statement>
<inallseriousness>I'm sorry for ranting on the board.</
inallseriousness>
<sarcasm type="humor">I will <airquote>never</airquote> rant again.</
sarcasm>
<twitterhandle request="follow me">@bloatedmanatee</twitterhandle>
</opinion>

[chris....@gmail.com]

Just for the record, this topic was also posted on the Satchmo list and there are some decent performance improvement related discussions. No doubt there are configurations of Satchmo that result in less than desirable speed but there are some real life comments/examples from folks running big stores. Hopefully that will be useful to others that stumble upon this thread and are looking for some ideas on how to improve performance.

Thanks,
Chris

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <ja...@jacobian.org> wrote:

Hi Bobby --

I'm quite sorry if you took my words as a threat. Such wasn't my
intent -- at all. I'm simply trying to make clear certain community
expectations. You're completely right that banning would be wildly
inappropriate, and I certainly wasn't suggesting that.

The Django community has historically been known as a friendly,
accepting, professional one free of the usual flamewars that crop up
on free software. I really appreciate your help in keeping it that
way. I think we can all agree that a helpful, welcoming community is
something to be proud of.

 

Actually, Jacob does have a point. This is pretty much the only list I *enjoy* being a part of, and it probably wouldn't be like this unless certain etiquette was enforced.

 

That's the last I've got to say on the matter; at this point we're
basically going in circles. I hope I made my point clear enough. If
not, please feel free to contact me off-list so everyone else can get
back to talking about software.

Thanks!

Jacob

[Cal Leeming]

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <ja...@jacobian.org> wrote:

Hi Bobby --

I'm quite sorry if you took my words as a threat. Such wasn't my
intent -- at all. I'm simply trying to make clear certain community
expectations. You're completely right that banning would be wildly
inappropriate, and I certainly wasn't suggesting that.

The Django community has historically been known as a friendly,
accepting, professional one free of the usual flamewars that crop up
on free software. I really appreciate your help in keeping it that
way. I think we can all agree that a helpful, welcoming community is
something to be proud of.

Actually, Jacob does have a point. This is pretty much the only list I *enjoy* being a part of, and it probably wouldn't be like this unless certain etiquette was enforced.

 

That's the last I've got to say on the matter; at this point we're
basically going in circles. I hope I made my point clear enough. If
not, please feel free to contact me off-list so everyone else can get
back to talking about software.

Thanks!

Jacob

[Venkatraman S]

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd] <cal.l...@simplicitymedialtd.co.uk> wrote:

This is pretty much the only list I *enjoy* being a part of, and it probably wouldn't be like this unless certain etiquette was enforced.

What? Why the "only*? Do they more mailing lists? ;)