check out the concept of Profile.
--
regards
KG
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
Coimbatore LUG rox
http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/
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Q: How do I <something vague>
A: You do X.
Q: How do I do X?
A: You use Y.
Q: How do I use Y?
I'm convinced that these people are either trolls or inherently
"un-helpable," unless you want to write their code for them.
In either case I think the only sane response is to completely ignore
these people as soon as this pattern emerges, because it's an utter
waste of the time we could be using to help others -- the reason we're
on this list in the first place.
Also, ignoring them is probably the only way to discourage repeat offences.
Shawn
Is it just me or are we having a sudden spurt of e-mail that goes like this:
Q: How do I <something vague>
A: You do X.
Q: How do I do X?
A: You use Y.
Q: How do I use Y?
I'm convinced that these people are either trolls or inherently "un-helpable," unless you want to write their code for them.
In either case I think the only sane response is to completely ignore these people as soon as this pattern emerges, because it's an utter waste of the time we could be using to help others -- the reason we're on this list in the first place.
Also, ignoring them is probably the only way to discourage repeat offences.
Shawn
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Yeah. I used to post that link pretty frequently until I was asked to
stop. ;o)
I still think it's a great essay. If I remember correctly, the objection
to it was that the tone wasn't necessarily at the same level of
acceptance and friendliness we like to maintain in this group.
We should distill it into a shorter, newbie-friendly version and get it
posted somewhere official so we can refer to it.
On 06/23/2011 12:36 PM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd] wrote:
The perfect link to refer these users to:http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html <http://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
(props to harryr for finding this)
Yeah. I used to post that link pretty frequently until I was asked to stop. ;o)
I still think it's a great essay. If I remember correctly, the objection to it was that the tone wasn't necessarily at the same level of acceptance and friendliness we like to maintain in this group.
We should distill it into a shorter, newbie-friendly version and get it posted somewhere official so we can refer to it.
The tone is exactly why I've asked people to stop referring to ESR's
document. The spirit of the document -- that you can only get good
answers if you ask good questions -- is certainly valid, but to me,
ESR's tone in that document really comes off as "Stop wasting my time,
which is more valuable than yours, because I'm a hacker, which means
I'm awesome and you're not". I'm sorry, but being a 1337 h4X0R doesn't
give you carte blanche to treat anyone else like crap.
The Django core team have tried really hard to foster a positive,
accepting community culture. Everyone is a beginner once, and everyone
occasionally posts in haste and forgets to include salient details.
Absolutely nothing is gained by insulting a newcomer to the community.
As a side note, if someone were to redraft that document in such a way
that it *doesn't* have that tone, I'd gladly include the text in
Django's own documentation.
Yours,
Russ Magee %-)
The Django core team have tried really hard to foster a positive,
accepting community culture. Everyone is a beginner once, and everyone
occasionally posts in haste and forgets to include salient details.
Absolutely nothing is gained by insulting a newcomer to the community.
As a side note, if someone were to redraft that document in such a way
that it *doesn't* have that tone, I'd gladly include the text in
Django's own documentation.
Yours,
Russ Magee %-)
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I find this document[0] to be really nice, helpful and without that
particular tone.
Someone from Python Argentina (PyAR) translated it to Spanish and it
is what we use to guide newcomers.
[0] http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html
Regards,
--
Fabián E. Gallina
http://www.anue.biz
last time you posted on this topic you had given a link to something
that was more appropriate - could you repost it please?
I think this is the link you're referring to:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
It's not *completely* on topic -- it's about reporting bugs, rather
than asking questions. However, it gets the tone right, and many of
the lessons about submitting useful bug reports are equally applicable
to asking questions.
Yours,
Russ Magee %-)
Nice! I haven't seen that one before -- thanks for sharing!
Yours,
Russ Magee %-)
I feel we should customise this by giving examples from mailing lists
and possibly make it django-specific.
QGuy: how can I get a directory listing?
AMan: use NSFileManager
...QGuy puts NSFileManager into Google...
Why? Because I'm sure a google search of "directory listing
objective-c" can get you a lot more results, in a lot faster time.
One could say: "But we are to be friendly...", and to that I answer:
"Friendly to those who show decent respect. And it is a lack of
respect to scream out questions, demanding an answer when it actually
takes time, for the hundreds of developers on this list, to read all
emails and not to mention answer to these questions.".
There is a reason for the saying: "Just fucking google it", and I
believe we can drop the "fucking" but still enforce the saying.
So maybe make a google guide with smart keywords to add, like:
Don't search on: "django syncdb error"
Search on: "django syncb <insert error message here>"
You want examples?
Search on: "django <insert problem> snippet"
Try to search you problem like this: "site:stackoverflow.com <insert
problem> django"
Have you tried to search the mailinglist? The search is here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/django-users
(...)
--
With regards, Herman Schistad
actually duckduck.go is far smarter than google for opensource.
+1 on Herman's post, and the idea of teaching people 'how to google for themselves'. Sounds silly i know, but some people just dont know how what to look for, and how to use google effectively.
I'll also try to be very careful to follow these guidelines as I appreciate
the time everyone here takes to help people like me. Thanks a bunch!
Maybe I'm just a little old fashioned, but I tend to have the viewpoint of "If
you don't have anything good to say, don't have anything to say at all."
In this particular situation I'd leave the reply to a question like this to
someone who has the patience for such things. Otherwise just post a link to
Mr. Schistad's article.
I am also a newbie on this list. I have been reading the list for about two months. I have learned a LOT following the questions and answers. I would like to suggest that some of the links like duckduck.go be added to the standard doc's page's on the right hand side. I would also like to see the 'Getting Help" be on each page.
I would also like to thanks all the responders to this list for all the effort expended to helping all the noob's.
Even though I have not posted any requests for help yet, I am sure I will in the future.
Everyone have a nice day...
Richard
P.S. really like Django!
I have started something on the wiki:
https://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/UsingTheMailingList
--
am travelling - will add my stuff when I reach home - but thanks, keep
it coming.