Missing peice before best practises

[Sayth Renshaw]

Hi

I am looking for a resource that gives me that Knowledge I need to grasp and understand Django.

For python I have learnt LPTHW and completed codeacademy and read the Magnus lie Hetland book.

I have completed the Django polls tutorial, and I bought two scoops of Django. Now I have read the first 4 chapters of two scoops but its more a design rules book not a how to book, so it will be good when I have more experience and think I could do this better. This basically holds true for the effective django as well.

So I turned to the django book online, but have a lack of faith here as the installation chapter mentions nothing of isolated environments and using pip and virtual env to install.

Where do I go to get that intermediate step of how to Django?

Thanks

Sayth

[Sayth Renshaw]

Any thoughts?

[Roger Barnes]

Is there something that the Django documentation itself is lacking?

https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/install/#installing-official-release

[Marcin Szamotulski]

On 06:19 Wed 26 Jun , Sayth Renshaw wrote:
> Any thoughts?
>
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This is a nice tutorial series:
http://gettingstartedwithdjango.com/en/lessons/microblog-kitchen-sink/

Best,
Marcin

[Tom Evans]

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Sayth Renshaw <flebbe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Any thoughts?

First of all, there is no requirement to use either of those tools to
use django.

Its a curious complaint you have. You don't want to use the
documentation since it doesn't document something that you already
know about!

In reality, why should Django devote lots of space in it's manual to
the use of pip, the python installer, and virtualenv, the python
environment management tool.

You'll note that these aren't Django tools, they are stock utilities
that you would use with any python application. Django is not a
special python application, it is very much a standard python library
that you integrate in to your application. Because it is standard, the
documentation that pip and virtualenv supply themselves is more than
sufficient.

Having said all that, Django does devote some column space to virtualenv:

https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.5/intro/reusable-apps/#installing-python-packages-with-virtualenv

Cheers

Tom

[Sayth Renshaw]

> Its a curious complaint you have. You don't want >to use the
>documentation since it doesn't document >something that you already

There's a misunderstanding here it's a) Not django docs but the opensource django book. B) the book ends up describing over a vast area all the possible different install options over Win/Mac/Linux. I appreciate its an open effort but as a newbie if you know something is better and according to other sources there is better practises would you trust the rest of the info or perhaps value it less ?

@Tom GSWD does look like a good resource, and the docs do look ok. Just wanted to be able to work through a practical example when learning, we all learn best by copying initially and then tweaking with our options as experience increases.

This is oddly the only value difference between rails and django is that there is far more online courses and tutorials to say "come join rails". It's just that I like python and the python Eco better.

Sayth

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[Tom Evans]

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Sayth Renshaw <flebbe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is oddly the only value difference between rails and django is that
> there is far more online courses and tutorials to say "come join rails".

Yep, they say "come join rails", and not "come join Ruby". This
encourages people to look for "rails best practices" and not "ruby
best practices". Conversely with python/django.

Cheers

Tom

[Sayth Renshaw]

Is that good though? 

Barring 2 scoops there is no new material to recognise and guide users to the new features of Django and to get beginner Django developers on board quicker.

It leads to bits of info for each python framework but nothing comprehensive.

Sayth  

[Tom Evans]

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Sayth Renshaw <flebbe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is that good though?
>
> Barring 2 scoops there is no new material to recognise and guide users to
> the new features of Django and to get beginner Django developers on board
> quicker.
>
> It leads to bits of info for each python framework but nothing
> comprehensive.
>
> Sayth
>

Virtualenv, pip etc are not features of Django, they are features of
python. It is right that Django mentions them in places, it is doubly
right that it does not attempt to duplicate the fine documentation
that pip and virtualenv possess themselves.

Cheers

Tom

[Sayth Renshaw]

On Monday, July 1, 2013, Tom Evans wrote:

Agreed good tutorials would show steps and then point to resources for further reading,

At this point though it appears there is a scarcity of good tutorials for current Django.

Sayth

 

[Amirouche Boubekki]

2013/7/1 Sayth Renshaw <flebbe...@gmail.com>

pip+virtualenv[wrapper] is a pratice not something that will allow you to build a skyrocket as-is, you can live without it.

The documentation is good, and overall ecosystem alive and active, what do you need more ? They are several CMS and admin apps, blog solutions etc... They are still improvements and stabilisation to be done on many (utility) apps... Everything I want to say is that outside the django tutorial, and anybooks you read, the best way to improve your skills it to [re]build something...

Time to time, I think about writring a set of tutorial about a CMS or Social Network from scratch, but experience says that except the actual code, the remaining issues are solved and well documented outside this virtual project, so this would, I think, have little value.

HTH,

Amirouche

[Sayth Renshaw]

Apologies Amirouche for the late reply.

The documentation is good, but I like many apparently(based on tutorials for other envs) prefer a hands on approach to a documentary approach. This is the place where Django doesn't have much depth in its ecosystem. It has no current books and no hands on tutorial other than GSWD which creates a lot of lifting with installing ruby, vms, vagrant and so on just to start with Django.

Flask is starting to get a few tutorials popping up in real python for web, http://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial-part-i-hello-world, and in the works the Picard flask kickstarter http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1223051718/practical-flask-book-project.

I put my money where my mouth is and sponsor these kickstarters as there is such a shortage of good info.

As I would back you Amirouche if you started a Kickstarter to give Django a good practical and hands on tutorial.

Cheers

Sayth

--

[Randy Baxley]

I use a desktop at home and a laptop when I go attempting to hack in the open community.  The hack experiances always seem so messy to me.  Most recently I am trying to help with a project called SUMO but there are tons of download requirements outside of the python and django.  I have also tried to get any of the groups I have gone to to define a stack for hacking and vagrant, virtualenv and of course git and sudo.  Every new project seems to use dependencies that mean a lot of time downloading widgets that seem to do the same things if one asks but after a while why ask?  If it is too sloppy I will just concentrate on less messy projects.  I am tempted to play with flask but for now the django book examples are working though I will likely have to go through chapter four many multiples of times and am hoping soon to get some move towards being able to build the site I have my mind set on.