Legal Info and Resources

[Chris]

Hey everybody,
Here's a bunch of info and internet resources I have compiled about
some of the legal issues we may face as we move forward in this
project. Please check out the links, most of this info would be too
cumbersome to repost here.

Federal and State Incorporation Information

Filing Fee $150
Franchise Fee- Minimum $25
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/c179.pdf

Apply for and EIN number online
https://sa2.www4.irs.gov/modiein/individual/index.jsp

Illinois Not For Profit Corporation Filing-$50
http://www.nfhlaw.com/library/NotForProfitEntities/Purpose%20Clauses%20for%20Not%20For%20Profit%20Corporations%20in%20Illinois.doc

501 c 3 Non profit filing-User Fee $400.00
http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0%2C%2Cid=96099%2C00.html
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=121515,00.html

Chicago specific Info

Chicago Zoning Ordinance
http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Illinois/chicagozoning/chicagozoningordinanceandlanduseordinanc?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:chicagozoning_il

Acceptable Zoning Categories for possible types of spaces we may look
for
Small Venues (1-149 capacity) B1,2,3 and C1,2,3
Medium Venues (150-999) B3 and C1,2,3
Artist Live/Work Space located on ground floor
Permitted only in B2
Special Use approval in B1, B3 and C1,2,3
Artist Live/Work Space located above the ground floor
B1,2,3 and C1,2,3
Artist Work or Sales Space B1,2,3 and C1,2,3

Chicago Zoning Map-A good resource to find if possible spaces are
properly zoned
http://maps.cityofchicago.org/website/zoning/index.html

Public Place of Amusement License
A PPA license is required to produce, present or conduct any type of
amusement. Venues charging an
admission fee or accepting a donation for any type of entertainment or
amusement requires a PPA
license. Venues with a capacity of 100 or more people that offer any
entertainment or amusement
require a PPA, regardless if an admission fee is charged.
FEE: $770–$13,200 based on occupancy
http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/bacp/general/PPA%20Guide.pdf

Amusement Tax-9%
http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/rev/supp_info/tax_list/amusement_tax.html

Chicago Noise Ordinance
http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/doe/general/PermittingAndEnforcement_PDFs/NoiseOrdinance/ChicagoEnvironmentalNoiseOrdinance_2.pdf


Also, here is a page with good general info about cooperative
incorporation if we decide to go that route
http://www.business.gov/register/incorporation/cooperative/


I know this is a ton of crap to wade through. I'll continue to do
research when I have time and post more to this thread. If anybody
wants to add to this, the help would be much appreciated.

[Geoffrey Hing]

Ya'll might already know this, but one way that startup
not-for-profits get around the filing fees (until they're sustainable)
is by jumping under an umbrella organization's 501c3 status.

This might be something to think about. It can be another opportunity
for collaboration and community, but finding the right partners is
important.

-Geoff

> FEE: $770�$13,200 based on occupancy

[Ramsey Beyer]

geoff, do you know much about how this works? we touched on it a bit during the meeting but no one really knew what it entails.


also, my new neighbors are both attorneys who specifically do tax law. they're young and cool and said they'd definitely be available to help us with filing so we can make sure we're doing it right and getting it done as cheap as possible!

FEE: $770–$13,200 based on occupancy

[Matt Walsh]

The amount of fines that could take place if we miss something is
pretty substantial so we just have to make sure to focus on each thing
if there is the potential for us breaking the law.

The PPA License is pretty intimidating. I forget if in the meeting
whether we discussed doing that or finding a way around that.

I also think that for the meeting we should try to discuss what each
of these links mean, or have everyone read them and try to decipher
them, I personally struggled with understanding some of them.

> >>http://www.nfhlaw.com/library/NotForProfitEntities/Purpose%20Clauses%...

>
> >> 501 c 3 Non profit filing-User Fee $400.00

> >>http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0%2C%2Cid=96099%2C00....

> >>http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=121515,00.html
>
> >> Chicago specific Info
>
> >> Chicago Zoning Ordinance
>

> >>http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Illinois/chicagozoning/chicago...

>
> >> Acceptable Zoning Categories for possible types of spaces we may look
> >> for
> >> Small Venues (1-149 capacity) B1,2,3 and C1,2,3
> >> Medium Venues (150-999) B3 and C1,2,3
> >> Artist Live/Work Space located on ground floor
> >> Permitted only in B2
> >> Special Use approval in B1, B3 and C1,2,3
> >> Artist Live/Work Space located above the ground floor
> >> B1,2,3 and C1,2,3
> >> Artist Work or Sales Space B1,2,3 and C1,2,3
>
> >> Chicago Zoning Map-A good resource to find if possible spaces are
> >> properly zoned
> >>http://maps.cityofchicago.org/website/zoning/index.html
>
> >> Public Place of Amusement License
> >> A PPA license is required to produce, present or conduct any type of
> >> amusement. Venues charging an
> >> admission fee or accepting a donation for any type of entertainment or
> >> amusement requires a PPA
> >> license. Venues with a capacity of 100 or more people that offer any
> >> entertainment or amusement
> >> require a PPA, regardless if an admission fee is charged.
> >> FEE: $770–$13,200 based on occupancy
>

> >>http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/bacp/general/PPA%...
>
> >> Amusement Tax-9%
>
> >>http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/rev/supp_info/tax_list/amu...
>
> >> Chicago Noise Ordinance
>
> >>http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/doe/general/Permi...

[Geoffrey Hing]

I don't know the specifics, I just know that this is how Boxcar Books/Midwest Pages to Prisoners Project worked in Bloomington.� I can track down someone there who can break it down for me, but it might make more sense to find an Illinois organization with a similar relationship.�

I think this option is a good one for getting started, but only if someone has some good prospects for non-profit umbrella partners in mind.

-Geoff

On 10/07/2010 02:11 PM, Ramsey Beyer wrote:

geoff, do you know much about how this works? we touched on it a bit during the meeting but no one really knew what it entails.


also, my new neighbors are both attorneys who specifically do tax law. they're young and cool and said they'd definitely be available to help us with filing so we can make sure we're doing it right and getting it done as cheap as possible!

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Geoffrey Hing <ge...@terrorware.com> wrote:

�Ya'll might already know this, but one way that startup not-for-profits get around the filing fees (until they're sustainable) is by jumping under an umbrella organization's 501c3 status.

This might be something to think about. �It can �be another opportunity for collaboration and community, but finding the right partners is important.

-Geoff

FEE: $770�$13,200 based on occupancy

[cris balls]

I've been through most of it. Some of it I just scanned through but I've been involved with business licensing stuff before, just not for a collective or non-profit group. I have done bookkeeping for non-profits(side job), though, so I can help out a lot there when we get up and running. I manage the books for a couple businesses and have Quickbooks on my computer so I can take care of all that. I've prepared the financial statements for filing 1120 and 1120S(corporation tax returns) and have a little experience with 990s(non profit tax returns). Of course, we'll probably still want some assistance from an accountant, but a lot of the leg work can be done by me. What was kind of annoying about the links I posted is that there seems to be a lot a conflicting info on getting 501-c-3 status and organizing a corporation. Some of the info for setting up a corporation talks about already having non-profit status, but the 501-c-3 info talks about needing to be incorporated and having the FEIN number before applying. Perhaps they are talking about Illinois nonprofit status. I guess this is where we need a lawyer or accountant. The PPA license does seem like a big headache. I suppose that's where the not totally licensed thing may come in. The fines for not being totally by the book may seem intimidating, but it seems like the city only goes after places it thinks are making major $$$ or are some sort of public menace. Otherwise they would be all over every show that forgets to put donation only on the flyer and even some that are free because of the venue and capacity. That's where the relationship with the neighbors/community/cops comes in. It's what seems to be what can make or break a space. From what everybody talked about the focus being (not being strictly music and doing crazy shows every night of the week), I don't think this will the hardest thing to do. I guess we'll have to analyze the pros and cons of any available space when we get to that point and figure out how we'll fit into the local community. That may change depending on what areas have suitable space available when it comes time to rent. So, for those who have contacts to accountants and lawyers, is there any chance of getting somebody out to a meeting? Or are a couple of us gonna have to set up an appointment or correspond via email? I can help out in that area with whatever is needed. I'm pretty busy and can probably do more behind the scenes with that kind of stuff than with events and fundraising. Chris --- On Thu, 10/7/10, Matt Walsh <mattwa...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Xavier Maldonado]

So is there anyway to figure out how much we will need for the PPA
license based on what we want to do with the space or does it more
have to do with the physical parameters of the space? I'm just trying
to figure out what the minimum amount of money we need to fund raise.

On Oct 7, 9:36 pm, cris balls <nosloga...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've been through most of it. Some of it I just scanned through but I've been involved with business licensing stuff before, just not for a collective or non-profit group. I have done bookkeeping for non-profits(side job), though, so I can help out a lot there when we get up and running. I manage the books for a couple businesses and have Quickbooks on my computer so I can take care of all that. I've prepared the financial statements for filing 1120 and 1120S(corporation tax returns) and have a little experience with 990s(non profit tax returns). Of course, we'll probably still want some assistance from an accountant, but a lot of the leg work can be done by me.
>
> What was kind of annoying about the links I posted is that there seems to be a lot a conflicting info on getting 501-c-3 status and organizing a corporation. Some of the info for setting up a corporation talks about already having non-profit status, but the 501-c-3 info talks about needing to be incorporated and having the FEIN number before applying. Perhaps they are talking about Illinois nonprofit status. I guess this is where we need a lawyer or accountant.
>
> The PPA license does seem like a big headache. I suppose that's where the not totally licensed thing may come in. The fines for not being totally by the book may seem intimidating, but it seems like the city only goes after places it thinks are making major $$$ or are some sort of public menace. Otherwise they would be all over every show that forgets to put donation only on the flyer and even some that are free because of the venue and capacity. That's where the relationship with the neighbors/community/cops comes in. It's what seems to be what can make or break a space. From what everybody talked about the focus being (not being strictly music and doing crazy shows every night of the week), I don't think this will the hardest thing to do. I guess we'll have to analyze the pros and cons of any available space when we get to that point and figure out how we'll fit into the local community. That may change depending on what areas have suitable space
>  available when it comes time to rent.
>
> So, for those who have contacts to accountants and lawyers, is there any chance of getting somebody out to a meeting? Or are a couple of us gonna have to set up an appointment or correspond via email? I can help out in that area with whatever is needed. I'm pretty busy and can probably do more behind the scenes with that kind of stuff than with events and fundraising.
>
> Chris
>

> --- On Thu, 10/7/10, Matt Walsh <mattwalsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

[cris balls]

There doesn't seem to be a lot of clear info on this. I think we will have to talk to the city. Or perhaps we can speak with any businesses who have a PPA already to get some idea. Not sure who I could talk to off the top of my head but I'll try to think of something. I don't know if anyone's picked up this week's Reader but the feature story is about hassles with the city and licensing problems. One thing it brings up is the parking issue. I totally forgot about that. Depending on the zoning and type of business, we may have to have parking available. I'm not sure what the specifics are, but I'll look into it. I think the PPA may be a headache to jump into at first. We might want to open as an art space and keep shows to a minimum at first. I think we should try to organize shows collectively anyways, even before we have a space. If we are limited to how many shows we can do once we find a space, that doesn't mean we can't still organize things elsewhere. We will need to do this to raise money in the beginning. Why don't we give all the rock promoters some competition? Chris --- On Fri, 10/8/10, Xavier Maldonado <wearethemo...@gmail.com> wrote: