Something fun for your non-scientist friends on Halloween

[Simon Quellen Field]

Old hat for the folks on this list!

"http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/biology/pumpkin_dna/halloween.html"

My latest science fiction novel A Twisted Garden is now available in bookstores.

[JonathanCline]

On Oct 19, 9:51 pm, Simon Quellen Field <sfi...@scitoys.com> wrote:
> Old hat for the folks on this list!
>
> http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/biology/pumpkin_dna/halloween.html

Added to the FAQ ! http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ/Projects

The pet bird is a great touch to the photos.

There was some prior discussion about how the "ice cold" alcohol is
not necessary and room temp is actually better, contrary to most
protocols online which suggest "as cold as possible". (Although
putting the sample on ice, is probably a good idea?) I don't know
either way, just bringing it up. FYI, 190 proof Everclear is not
legal in California & several other prohibitionist states (for sure to
sell; not sure about possession).



## Jonathan Cline
## jcl...@ieee.org
## Mobile: +1-805-617-0223
########################

[Ben Gadoua]

   Just FYI, at the lab we use ice cold. We find that we get better interface seperation with it. Also not sure if that protocol says it, but 2 volumes alcohol to 1 volume sample.

Ben

[Ben Gadoua]

Note; We do phenol chlorphorm IPA DNA extraction, I was talking about when we re-elute DNA or RNA to concentrate it.

Ben

[Simon Quellen Field]

Thanks!

Since I am in California, the bottle of Everclear was no higher proof than the
bottle of Bacardi 151.  Until your email, I wasn't aware of why.  And it seems
more likely that it is related to its use in meth labs than to prohibition.  We have
the most lax marijuana laws in the states, but I can't sell iodine crystals on my
web site because of meth lab laws, as if they can't find an easy alternative to
iodine.  I am able to get 91% isopropanol, however.

My latest science fiction novel A Twisted Garden is now available in bookstores.

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Simon Quellen Field
<sfi...@scitoys.com> wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> Since I am in California, the bottle of Everclear was no higher proof than
> the
> bottle of Bacardi 151.  Until your email, I wasn't aware of why.  And it
> seems
> more likely that it is related to its use in meth labs than to prohibition.
> We have
> the most lax marijuana laws in the states, but I can't sell iodine crystals
> on my
> web site because of meth lab laws, as if they can't find an easy alternative
> to
> iodine.  I am able to get 91% isopropanol, however.
>

The difference between isopropyl and ethyl alcohol is DNA's solubility
in it, it is a bit more soluble in ethyl, so usually it is used first,
then isopropyl is used after the first extract to allow the DNA to
crash out a bit easier, while still washing it of other contams. That
isn't exactly what this "fun" experiment is going for though, so I
don't think it matters.

Very cool btw!!!

> My latest science fiction novel A Twisted Garden is now available in
> bookstores.
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:48 PM, JonathanCline <jnc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Oct 19, 9:51 pm, Simon Quellen Field <sfi...@scitoys.com> wrote:
>> > Old hat for the folks on this list!
>> >
>> > http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/biology/pumpkin_dna/halloween.html
>>
>>
>> Added to the FAQ ! http://openwetware.org/wiki/DIYbio/FAQ/Projects
>>
>> The pet bird is a great touch to the photos.
>>
>> There was some prior discussion about how the "ice cold" alcohol is
>> not necessary and room temp is actually better, contrary to most
>> protocols online which suggest "as cold as possible".   (Although
>> putting the sample on ice, is probably a good idea?)  I don't know
>> either way, just bringing it up.  FYI, 190 proof Everclear is not
>> legal in California & several other prohibitionist states (for sure to
>> sell; not sure about possession).
>>
>>
>>
>> ## Jonathan Cline
>> ## jcl...@ieee.org
>> ## Mobile: +1-805-617-0223
>> ########################
>>
>>
>
>
> >
>

--
Nathan McCorkle
Rochester Institute of Technology
College of Science, Biotechnology/Bioinformatics

[Jake]

On Oct 21, 8:01 am, Simon Quellen Field <sfi...@scitoys.com> wrote:
> it seems more likely that it is related to its use in meth labs than
> to prohibition.

Ethanol has no use in making meth. It's restriction is from holdover
prohibitionist logic.

FYI isopropyl and methanol can be had in high purity for cheap as red
"HEET" and yellow "HEET" respectively. They're fuel line dryers found
at most gas stations and auto supply places.

The iodine is a bit of a pain in the ass. Hopefully they'll quit
prohibiting it since US meth production has dropped to almost zero
now. Hopefully they'll be satisfied with switching our meth source to
the cheaper and more pure meth the US is buying from Mexico nowdays.
Too bad the cost is financing a hundred thousand or so cartel related
deaths and throwing our biggest neighbor into chaos and martial law.

For the ethanol you need you should be able to get a permit to possess
anhydrous ethanol pretty easily. A lot of people get them for
processing essential oils and making fragrances, perfumes, tinctures,
and the like. Apparently it's a pretty simple process.


-Jake

[Eugen Leitl]

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:54:08PM -0700, Jake wrote:

> For the ethanol you need you should be able to get a permit to possess
> anhydrous ethanol pretty easily. A lot of people get them for

Nitpick: you probably mean 96% ethanol. Anhydrous ethanol is hygroscopic,
and has few uses outside of synthetic chemistry.

> processing essential oils and making fragrances, perfumes, tinctures,
> and the like. Apparently it's a pretty simple process.

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE

[Jake]

On Oct 21, 12:57 pm, Eugen Leitl <eu...@leitl.org> wrote:
> Nitpick: you probably mean 96% ethanol. Anhydrous ethanol is hygroscopic,
> and has few uses outside of synthetic chemistry.

Naw. I use anhydrous all the time. It's a simple procedure to dry
your 95% ethanol over some zeolite or other suitable drying agent.
It's just a pain in the ass, which is why most labs I know only stock
anhydrous. Also it's not really about the hygroscopic nature it's the
fact that it forms an azeotropic mixture and can't be distilled to
over 95%. In the couple seconds the bottle is open it's not going to
suddenly gain 5% in volume.


-Jake

[Nathan McCorkle]

Why does the ethanol I use in lab say both "pure" and "denatured"??? I
thought denatured meant it has been modified so you can't drink it.
With things that make you throw up and maybe methanol too. This is
supposedly biology grade liquid... does this mean my institution is
going for the cheaper less pure stuff?

[Meredith L. Patterson]

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Jake <jake...@mail.com> wrote:
> For the ethanol you need you should be able to get a permit to possess
> anhydrous ethanol pretty easily.  A lot of people get them for
> processing essential oils and making fragrances, perfumes, tinctures,
> and the like.  Apparently it's a pretty simple process.

Steam distillation is fun, easy, and quite safe as long as you (1)
don't create a closed system, and (2) use an electric burner if you're
doing alcohol distillation. (If you use water as the solvent instead
of ethanol, to produce a hydrosol rather than an essential oil, an
alcohol lamp or a gas stove is fine.)

To do it really properly, you need a boiling flask, a distillation
adapter, a thermometer, a condenser, a receiving flask, an aquarium
pump and a bucket of ice, but it's surprising what you can jerry-rig
together out of random bits of glassware. A separating funnel on its
side with the stopcock wide open makes for a decent solid-matter
receptacle, if you want to avoid boiling off terpenes by passing
heated water or alcohol vapor through your shredded plant matter
(rather than just dumping a bunch of alcohol and leaves into the
bottom of your boiling flask -- for bonus points, less crap gets
burned onto the bottom of your flask this way). When constructing your
distillation apparatus, pack the funnel loosely with leaves or
whatever, put it on its side between the distillation adapter and the
condenser, and use a couple of clamps or stacked-up books to support
it. Hot water vapor/alcohol vapor passes through the mass of plant
matter, carries the essential oils with it, and any slightly less
volatile stuff falls into the lower half of the sep funnel as the
vapor heads for the condenser.

Len and I made a ridiculous amount of oregano essential oil when we
had to cut back an oregano plant that was attempting to take over the
garden. The house smelled like pizza for a week.

Ethanol is pretty easy to dry, but keeping it that way is a pain in the ass.

Cheers,
--mlp

[Jake]

On Oct 21, 1:17 pm, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why does the ethanol I use in lab say both "pure" and "denatured"???

Well obviously it can't be both "pure" and "denatured". Alcohol is
usually denatured with methanol in the US. Nice that we've decided to
kill or blind people for drinking something we don't want them to,
isn't it?

What they probably did was add <1% denaturing agent. Probably one of
those bad taste or vomiting agents. That way they can still call it
"pure" since it's >99% pure. Still a scam IMHO.


-Jake

[Aaron Hicks]

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Jake <jake...@mail.com> wrote:

On Oct 21, 1:17 pm, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why does the ethanol I use in lab say both "pure" and "denatured"???

Well obviously it can't be both "pure" and "denatured".  Alcohol is
usually denatured with methanol in the US.  Nice that we've decided to
kill or blind people for drinking something we don't want them to,
isn't it?

While it is frequently denatured with methanol, the spectrum of denaturants for different applications is breathtaking in scope.

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title27/27-1.0.1.1.17.4.html

-AJ

[Nathan McCorkle]

Wow, I may never want to put any health/beauty product on my body
containing "alcohol" after reading that list of recipes.

[PYROcomp]

Wouldn't anhydrous alcohol really be ethyl ether?

REXMO
http://rexmo.net

[Cathal Garvey]

@Jake: I don't think it's prohibitionist that you're not allowed to get Ethanol above certain %s, because we never had a prohibition here and we're still not allowed. I'm fairly sure it's because idiots will buy it and drink it at 80%, and end up dead. I know they would here anyway, although some unscrupulous off-licenses sell ethanol for home dilution anyway. It's only because they'd be blamed for any deaths that they're careful about who they sell it to.

That said, there may be other reasons, and "METH LABS!!1" wouldn't be an out-of-character reason for a government ban. Look at the liquid restrictions at airports "In case they make a bomb!". :)

Cool experiment writeup, by the way. And yea, I love the parrot!

[Meredith L. Patterson]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Cathal Garvey <cathal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That said, there may be other reasons, and "METH LABS!!1" wouldn't be an
> out-of-character reason for a government ban. Look at the liquid
> restrictions at airports "In case they make a bomb!". :)

... never mind that the technique for disposal of confiscated liquids
is simply to chuck them all into the *same bin*, which I'm still
waiting to see turn into a binary explosive disaster.

Cheers,
--mlp

[Nathan McCorkle]

Oh, damn, just so happens I forgot to remove this acid, and this base,
from my carry-on... (some time later) BOOM!

>
> Cheers,
> --mlp

[Simon Quellen Field]

Now you've really got Jake on an FBI list...

My latest science fiction novel A Twisted Garden is now available in bookstores.

[Cathal Garvey]

Then this list has served its purpose and may now rest. :)