Career advice for bioengineering Undergrad

[Chowe]

Hi, I was hoping to get some insight into the biotech industry, so I can better make my decision about my future. I would like to know what kind of degree will be required to do research in biotech. I will graduate from college in May 2015 with a Bioengineering degree in Ohio. My main interest is to conduct research in synthetic biology and exciting new biotechnologies. I have worked on several research projects throughout college, working in genetics labs, 2 summers of the iGEM competition, and I am currently doing an internship with a biotech company this summer. 

My original plan was to get a PhD and be able to design my own experiments and guide the direction of my research projects. However more recently I have felt that I would rather just start working and not do any schooling or money spending that is unnecessary (I have been finding that most of the real learning I have been doing has been outside of the classroom). The more management duties and less lab work doesn’t sound like something I want. This has made me look into the more independent biotech start up environment, and it seems like something I would really like to do, rather than working for a bigger corporate biotech company. I have also looked into the different biotech incubators that have been made recently (synbio axlr8r, biocurious) and could also see myself working/starting on a project there. 

Things about my job I would really like to have, 1. Freedom to design my own types of experiments and research direction 2. Freedom in work schedule, not standard 9-5 M-F hours 3. Money is not a high priority on my list, I would much rather enjoy everyday I’m working than know I have plenty of money. My DREAM JOB would be a small lab with a few smart people that I can be free to do any kind of research Im excited by, be able to work whenever I am truly motivated to, and lastly have enough income to live modestly (kind of ridiculous, I know but loving what I do is VERY important to me! and I do not see myself settling in any job I don’t enjoy). If I could make a career out of doing DIY Bio, I definitely would! 

Also I realize funding is a huge factor in research and one of the biggest limiting factors for startups, but I could see myself enjoying working on a really cool project and using kickstarter (like glowing plants project) and finding funding other ways. 

My question is, would I need a Masters or PhD in order to do research in a biotech company (startup or corporate) or would I be able to find work after my bachelors degree? Would a few more internships in biotech (like ginkgo bioworks) be as good as a masters? Would it be worth it for me to get the more years of schooling so I am more marketable? To be honest, I would much rather find work right away because I have really grown tired of the academic environment, but on the other hand I would be willing to do more schooling if that is the only option because I do not want to be unqualified for biotech research and be stuck making reagents all day. Any advice/insight/regrets/realizations would be greatly appreciated!   

-Corey 

[Josiah Zayner]

You should read this thread that was just posted: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/diybio/2JAQ2ponSuw

You should be able to find jobs in Biotech with a bachelors but you will most like be paid little money for a long time(i.e. $30-50k/year) and have a very difficult time rising to any position in which you are allowed to design your own experiments. At most decent universities graduate students are paid ~$30k.

If you have the chance to goto a decent graduate school, do it. You will learn alot and be in a great position in life. But do it only if you really really enjoy Science. Graduate school is long and hard. Why not come up with a research project, ask your professors for advice? Also, most universities have undergrad independent research projects try and do one of those.


     Josiah Zayner, Ph.D.
     NASA ARC Space Bioengineering 
     Founder The ODIN
     http://www.the-odin.com

[Dakota Hamill]

Many people on here haven't followed the traditional path of under grad -> grad -> post doc -> try to get tenure -> publish till you die.  That's exactly why we are here.  I think there is no set way to go about living your own life, you have to decide what is important.  Do not let others decide it for you.   I've known brilliant people that have been very supportive and helpful towards me, and I went to an unknown undergrad and havn't gone for a PhD yet.  I've also met assholes that will screen you based on your associated institution.  I'm of the predilection that if someone judges you based solely on the number of abbreviated letters you have before your name, without letting you speak your piece, then they aren't someone worth knowing.

That's fantastic you have iGEM experience, use it!  I also wanted to intern for Ginkgo Bioworks and applied during school but was told I didn't have any experience that would fit.  I was sad for a day, but then, I turned it around, it was a huge motivator to prove people wrong.   Spite is a powerful motivator, but not the most noble one.  Find what drives you, find what inspires you, and do what others will not.  Be crazy, be creative, and above all, be PASSIONATE.  You cannot fake passion.    People will know when it is genuine, and they will want to help you.

How to be successful in life is not a question that can be answered.  Some people find the way and others do not.  Some people are born with the drive, others are not.   People that aren't will just write a book about how to do it and still probably get rich.  You need to decide what it is you want to do and how you will go about doing it.  At some point you need to decide between security and sanity.  I have friends that started as research associates at nice biotech companies in the Boston area for ~40k with bonuses and benefits, and they want to blow their brains out 2 years later because the job is so mundane and boring.  It's production, not science.  Some people are perfectly happy doing that, they like the 9-5, in and out, no overtime.

If you work for a startup your hours will be 60+ hours a week.  If you work for your own startup they will be 168+ hours a week.  

If you want career advice, go to a guidance councilor at your school, if you want my advice, find what you truly love more than anything in the world and sell everything in your possession to see it into existence.   You can always buy more "things", you can never buy this time in your life again.

But hey, who knows, maybe in 50 years I'll be homeless begging for change and all my friends who I thought were silly running 20 Western Blots a day for the same protein over and over again will be retired and happy.

Time will reveal all things and it will kill us all.  

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/7f4e8006-a2eb-458c-844d-af10007c5d76%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

I could have offered you to participate in a kickstarter that may have made an entire industy go unemployed. A product of daily need, which don't exists yet (not sufficiently) - would have been non-GMO therefore probably even unregulated. But a friend I told just pointed out a similar company already exists (although with bad marketing, becuase I didn't find it with google research!)

For some reason I don't see my project dead yet, because my approach is a bit different. They are using a different source.

 

You need good mentors to get connections into elite communities. They have the money and could pay for your experiments.  

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

>My DREAM JOB would be a small lab with a few smart people that I can be free to do any kind of research Im excited by, be able to work whenever I am truly motivated to, and lastly have enough income to live modestly (kind of ridiculous, I know but loving what I do is VERY important to me! and I do not see myself settling in any job I don’t enjoy). If I could make a career out of doing DIY Bio, I definitely would!

 

 

I guess everyone on  this list would love that

[Dakota Hamill]

Spite was a poor word choice.  What I meant was, do not let your failures or setbacks define you, learn from them and use them as a catalyst for positive change.  Hopefully you find the career in the field you want, best of luck

On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 5:31 AM, Mega [Andreas Stuermer] <masters...@gmail.com> wrote:

>My DREAM JOB would be a small lab with a few smart people that I can be free to do any kind of research Im excited by, be able to work whenever I am truly motivated to, and lastly have enough income to live modestly (kind of ridiculous, I know but loving what I do is VERY important to me! and I do not see myself settling in any job I don’t enjoy). If I could make a career out of doing DIY Bio, I definitely would!

 

 

I guess everyone on  this list would love that

--

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/a0e24c97-837c-48a9-95ce-22254739b920%40googlegroups.com.

[Josiah Zayner]

I actually identified with the spite comment. 

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/diybio/mlY80p7u02g/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CAGdeWmTF1AmAWgU8iawhrZDmRRNJ5GPGgU_gUe_VJmM6nSRp_Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[John Griessen]

On 06/08/2014 11:00 AM, Josiah Zayner wrote:
> I actually identified with the spite comment.

If you endure some of the production style employment for any length of time, that can build.
It's best channeled into notebook scribbling, then doing with a better outcome in mind.
You would not get very far with a "pure spite" plan of sabotaging a product that is selling without
replacing it with better.

[Josiah Zayner]

What I meant is that sometimes I have worked 10 times as hard just to prove someone that their negativity towards me was ill warranted. 

Such as: "That teacher told me I was a failure. So to spite them I worked so hard that they had to give me a good score and prove themselves an asshole."

That is how I took the comment. Maybe that was not how it was meant?

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en

Learn more at www.diybio.org
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/diybio/mlY80p7u02g/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/53948FF0.5030302%40industromatic.com.

[Matt Lawes]

While it is good to be aspirational and aim to a role as a principal scientist, inventor, scientific genius etc. It is important to understand that training is important to be sufficiently fluent in the technology. Your personal level of commitment and educational level of attainment will determine your career options. If you don't like being relegated to 'production' then go do an advanced degree. But understand that even with an advanced degree you may not get to be 'creative' if you are not already creative as a personality.

We can't all be rappers, movie stars, professional athletes just because we want to be. Same with the creative side of science and technology ... educational attainment is a minimum necessity but after that you still need talent, dedication and a little luck.

I am a self employed scientist business guy .. PhD MBA ..... started two biotechs ... and I still get insulted almost daily by financiers, academics, administrators and bureaucrats who think they can tell me anything whatsoever about entrepreneurship, scientific innovation, etc. Get used to it. I am Ronin to them and they fear me. One day I will be Shogun and their heads will fall to my sword......

DIYBio is great for improving access to scientific research at an earlier than usual level of formal training. It also allows the truly creative to participate and contribute. Make the most of this avenue. But ultimately progress will be made best in formal structures ... even if you fight them daily as I do.

>matt

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Josiah Zayner <josiah...@gmail.com> wrote:

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en

Learn more at www.diybio.org
---

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CAEUkM4ugQsz5ZpUxXUAho_5ec%2B7ML3ceV-A5KRYMiSgn37F24w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Chowe]

Josiah - I definitely would want the freedom of designing my own experiments so I could see myself not enjoying a repetitive job with not much of my own design. I am thinking of applying to some graduate schools that I could get a great experience at, I'm hopeful I would get in but I'm not sure how competitive they are. Also my school does have independent projects that I can do as well as a senior project we must complete to graduate, so I am definitely looking into designing a very cool project for this year. Do you have any ideas that would be a good senior project? Something that could be successful but also be very interesting. I would have 2 semesters to complete it.  

Dakota - I completely agree that how we spend our time is really important. I feel a great desire to follow my passions in whatever crazy way it comes and to be able to take risks. I relate a lot to what you said about maybe one day you will homeless begging for change, because I too see myself following my passions over choosing to feel more secure. I could see myself not enjoy a research associate position that can get boring and mundane very quick. It might be a good idea to get graduate school experience to be able to have more freedom in my research. Since I see myself in the startup/incubator environment more than the bigger corporate companies, in the startup environment with just a bachelors, do you think I would be able to find a position that would give me more freedom in my research or do you think it would mostly be research associate like positions? 

[John Griessen]

On 06/08/2014 12:08 PM, Chowe wrote:
> Since I see myself in the startup/incubator environment more than the bigger corporate companies, in the startup environment with
> just a bachelors, do you think I would be able to find a position that would give me more
freedom in my research or do you think
> it would mostly be research associate like positions?

No. Startups, or startups with an incubator's support are focused on one product to develop
and sell and make back investors's moneys X 100 to 1000 in five years. They won't give you freedom except
the necessary amount of respect you demand to do some work without interference. At the end of some
time period, you will have to have results that satisfy their goal or "you're fired."

They just want progress along their dream vision path of $10M in, $1B out.

[Chowe]

John - For those reasons would you not recommend working for a startup? What kind of path could you recommend for someone who is young in the biotech field?

[Matt Lawes]

John has a necessary but one dimensional view of biotech start ups. The venture capital / professional money comes in quite late. About 5-7 years after formation. Most biotechs will have operated on Phase I / Phase II SBIR research grants for the first 3-7 years. These are very fun companies to work for. They are so flat there is no hierarchy ... everything is a problem that needs to be solved. Will you ask and answer your own research question? No. Will you contribute meaningfully to the team and the project? Yes. Plus if you're smart you can get equity options that will be valuable once the finance guys show up.

Chowe ... I note that you're at Bowling Green. You really should connect with me - I'm in Cleveland area ......

>matt

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Chowe <ch...@bgsu.edu> wrote:

John - For those reasons would you not recommend working for a startup? What kind of path could you recommend for someone who is young in the biotech field?

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/6ca28319-bdb1-4eae-9849-56f9f4c91eed%40googlegroups.com.

[John Griessen]

On 06/08/2014 04:23 PM, Chowe wrote:
> For those reasons would you not recommend working for a startup?

Nahh... Like Matt said. I'm 57. Maybe I'm sounding bitter. I'm
mostly just being a little teachy, not bitter.

I've had fun times at two startups,
and also sort of felt used some of the time. The rest of my 15 years of employment
was at large established corps and I still had fun there also.
Your mileage may vary, and you need experience, and
employment is a bang up way to get it.

Then just ponder what you know of "how to" in business and in science
and decide what to do next. Business know hos lets you consider a larger range.
Always ask about operational details as you do your "jobs". If you don't do
too many hours of it on the company paid clock you may not even feel guilty
of breach of employment contract. Try to give your employers a good share
of your youthful energy and there will be no trouble.
All of Wall Street runs off your energy channeled into sellable vehicles
like stock options, company shares, preferred stock, etc. Don't
give them all of it either. Save some for collecting your thoughts and
forming a plan. Don't stay employed for too long. My 15 years was almost too
long. And then there is human sexuality, and related life events that blow up all these
plans...so get going while you can.

Very few have the traits to launch into tech business from a BS degree.
Not me for sure... I got jobs.

[John Griessen]

On 06/08/2014 06:34 PM, John Griessen wrote:
> Business know hos lets you

should be:
Business know how lets you

[Simon Quellen Field]

I highly recommend working at startups.

Google was my 11th startup.

My first was VisiCorp -- our product was the first spreadsheet, VisiCalc.

After that, having had experience at large companies and small, I joined early and left when they got too big.

Startups can't afford dead weight. You work with people who are very good at what they do, or you don't work there for long. I don't know of any startups in well established areas -- if it isn't cutting edge, you don't get funding. So you are always working on the latest stuff. Riding a tiny company through a big IPO where everyone you know is suddenly a millionaire is exciting, and I've had that privilege three times out of those 11.

Those who think job security comes with a large company are wrong. Those companies lay people off at the slightest market hiccup. Job security is in your resume. If the company dies, good people find new jobs very quickly here in Silicon Valley. We're made of startups, and this is the place where the biggest chunk of venture capital goes, year after year. There are other hot spots around the country, and I would advise people to move to where the investment has gone if they are interested in new technology (or in wealth).

The people on this list are the kind of people who will get paid to do things they enjoy doing.

When you are having fun and the bills are paid, everything else is just gravy on top.

You may also find that you enjoy doing several things that people pay good money for.

I was a well-paid biochemist who became a better-paid computer programmer.

Now I run my own Internet business, and I write books, I am an investor, and I teach the occasional college course.

Over your life you may find that several of your skills are valuable, and you may change careers several times, especially if you target small startups with a high chance of failure, but a high payoff for success. But in the meantime, you will be doing what you enjoy, and getting paid well for it.

-----

Get a free science project every week! "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en

Learn more at www.diybio.org
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/5394F320.8040907%40industromatic.com.

[Dakota Hamill]

I'd also recommend working for a start-up if you have a chance.  The pay probably won't be as good but the experience you gain (and the network) will pay for itself in the future.  I'll give you the small example I just went through. A few of my friends got jobs at an established company which accepts graduates from local colleges preferentially.  They all entered as research associates with their BS making $38-45k starting + up to a 20% bonus alongside full benefits and matching 401k.  I took a job out of school at a startup making $15 an hour then later at 35k a year salary. 

 We meet up every few months for food and drinks just to keep in touch.  Many of them talk about how they want more experience and are bored out of their minds, because they've been doing the same quality control tests on the same antibody for a year, or they've been seeding the same cell cultures for months at a time. I never made as much money as them, but they are surprised at all the cool stuff you get to learn at a startup.  Besides learning how to use every single instrument in the lab, Q-TOF LCMS, Triple-quad LCMS, chemiluminescent nitrogen detector, prep LC etc, you also learn how to FIX all those machines.  At a large company if a machine breaks, someone comes and fixes it, at a start-up, you have to take it apart and fix it yourself.  Every single one of our machines "broke" at least once, and every single time we fixed them.

At the incubator, people often toured every week or two weeks, sometimes they were investors, sometimes they were scientists, but they were always interested in what it is you did.  Lesson #2, you had to know your science inside and out, because you never knew when you might be put on the spot to "sell" your company to a stranger who might turn out to be an investor.  It was the opposite of stressful, it was actually kind of fun, because it made you want to learn even more.

Lesson #3 - With only a handful of people working, sometimes you got to get involved with the business side, whether it be through thinking up marketing ideas or working on product development.  In a start up you often get to carry out many different roles within the company, roles which in a larger company would each be filled by individual people.  

Last lesson and perhaps the most important.  Start-ups attract interesting people, and so do incubators that many startups are in.  The network you can build there is truly amazing.  Everyone from VC's to CEO's would tour the labs or be invited to give talks and presentations, and if you went up to them and spoke to them, 9/10 times they'd invite you to drop by their company for a tour and lunch.  Lastly, at least in the incubator, there were about 10 other companies in our shared lab space, and the people that worked for them were some of the smartest people I have ever met.  

See if there are any bio-tech incubators in your area, they tend to hold multiple companies in a smaller space.  If there are none, try to find a start-up who is doing work you find interesting and reach out to them even if they have no job postings.  

[Chowe]

Awesome! Thanks for the great advice guys. 

The startup atmosphere sounds very exciting, risky, emotional, character building, and an experience you can get nowhere else. Being younger I definitely see myself at least trying out the biotech startup scene and seeing where it takes me. I am leaning towards starting to work after college because I know graduate school can be a very big investment and sometime unnecessary. My only worry about starting work right away would be that I would be unqualified to do any significant research and would be stuck doing the boring and mundane technician jobs my whole career because I don't have any graduate experience.  

Dakota - From you and your friends experiences are you guys glad that you started working right away or do you wish you would have continued to graduate school? Since they talk about how bored they get, do they want to get a higher degree or will they stick with the jobs they have?

[Matt Lawes]

One way to get research experience as an undergrad is internships. This lets you try out the start up atmosphere if you can find one doing something that interests you. I have seen several interns turn their internships into jobs after graduating.

>matt

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Chowe <ch...@bgsu.edu> wrote:

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en

Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/ad24893a-6cd6-4c79-8aad-99b1ff9094b4%40googlegroups.com.

[Brent Neal]

Chowe -

From my own experience - if you want to do a startup, do it early in your career. That being said, I'm not entirely sure I understand what your desired end state is. You were pretty explicit about some of the properties, but I'm not sure they're entirely feasible.

You clearly want a lot of freedom. Freedom in direction and freedom in schedule. In my experience, that freedom is earned over time. You are willing to sacrifice money to get that freedom - that's pretty reasonable and improves chances of success.

My sense is that you also would not enjoy startup life. You will have a lot of schedule freedom - i.e., you can work ANY 90 hours of the week you want to! But, you will have no freedom of direction. My experience at a startup was that we had to be 100% laser focused on our service. There was almost zero time for side projects.

Since everyone else has prognosticated suggestions one way or another and despite the fact that I'm not sure I understand your desired outcome, I'll still make a suggestion I haven't heard yet. Become a perma-postdoc (sometimes known as research faculty.)

You will have the most schedule freedom you can get outside of being independently wealthy (though if you are undisciplined, you will do poorly.) You will have the opportunity to either work on another professor's project that excites you or apply for funding on your own. If you work in the lab of a well-funded PI, then as long as you help him or her keep the funding tap flowing, you will always have a spot. Your cool side projects, especially if they spin out of the university, will be valued there. On the down side, you will sacrifice salary potential in this role (for reals) and since its a soft money position, if the chancellor of your university beats your NSF program manager at golf, you'll be out of a job. :) Also, you will do repetitive work. Lots of it. However, I don't think that's a big downside, because you'll do that in any of your choices. If you're looking for a job that doesn't have tedious, repetitive work, you need to give up on doing any kind of science research or development, because you will not do well at it. There comes a point in any research project where you will have to put your head down and just plow through the tedium and the 47th time that particular experiment caught on fire. (although I suspect that spontaneous combustion of experiments is less of a problem in biology than it is in physics or chemistry. :) 

Good luck with your choice. This is a tough market to be a scientist in.

B

(full disclosure: Ph.D., physics. Currently a research manager at a mid-sized company.)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/mv2guiion7nywexq75h3bj72.1402285938520%40email.android.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Brent Neal, Ph.D.
http://brentneal.me

[Dakota Hamill]

I knew 7 people from school that all took jobs at this one local biotech.  One of them, my best friend from school, applied to graduate school but didn't get in where he wanted to.  The other 6 mentioned they never really had an interest in pursuing a PhD.  A few of them have moved up in their positions at this company, or changed labs within the company, and a few of them are taking classes towards a Master's at Harvard Extension because it suits their lifestyle.  A few of them started families so to them they like that the company pays for their Master's degree and they can take the courses remotely.  If they ever do chose to apply to a PhD program, they will be much better off having experience in their relevant field (and maybe some money saved up).  This is a "safe" route to take.

Personally, I'm glad I didn't go right into graduate school as I didn't think I was ready, nor would I have realistically stood a chance at some of the programs I was looking at.  Working at this start-up was hugely beneficial on a personal level and a professional level.  Not only did I gain a huge amount of experience with a variety of analytical chemistry instrumentation and synthesis techniques, I was exposed to early stage business development, and most importantly, cultivated a fantastic network of people.  Because of those people I met, and the support they offered, I left my job a month ago to try to start a company with my friend with some of them as mentors.  

I mention this not to toot my own horn and sound like a wantrepreneur, but because, if I hadn't taken the job at this start-up in the incubator, I NEVER would have met all these people.  The type of people that associate with start-ups and bio-tech incubators are the type of people that want to help others succeed. (At least where I am, can't speak for places like Cambridge, MA where I hear it can be pretty cut-throat).  These are men and women who have made their millions, built and sold off a few companies, and now want to find younger versions of themselves to help.  

That aside, I also worked alongside a kid who was applying to med school.  He was trying to get into a pretty prestigious 5 year research MD program.  He was working at a start-up next to me but in the same lab space, and he told me when he interviewed (and later got accepted) that they said working at that start-up weighed very heavily in his acceptance.  

I think many grad programs would like to see experience outside of a few internships over the summer.  Can you get in directly after undergrad?  Yes.  Will working at a startup or an established company in your area of interest help to make you a more attractive candidate?  Yes.

I don't think working for a few years ever hurt anyone's chances of getting into graduate school, in fact, it probably increased them, the problem is you can get used to making a steady paycheck with benefits on a 9-5 schedule, and many people don't want to go back to a low paying stipend as a TA or RA alongside a committed 5 years of hard work every day.

--

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

[Chowe]

Thank you guys very much for the very thorough and insightful responses! This has definitely given me a lot to think about and I'm sure my next steps will become clearer over time, as I have a year until I graduate. If anyone else still has any experiences they would like to share working in academia/industry feel free to. 

Thanks,

Corey 

[Kevin Chen]

Hi Chowe,

Lots of good reading here.

I'm currently part of the Synbio Axlr8r as a Co-founder of Hyasynth Bio. I was/am doing my Master's at the same time and I'm now making arrangements to manage both. If you're looking for a smart team of really passionate people, then a startup would be a good experience. (if all goes well we'll be needing people soon ;)  ). Yes, it is laser focused on our one project at the moment, but side projects are important too. We'll have to wait and see what we'll do when we get there. But, we move fast, learn lots, make mistakes and have fun. It's high risk, and may all fall apart in the end, but it's a rabbit hole and I need to find out where it goes. It isn't/hasn't been cut and dry as some people mention, we're writing our own story as we go.

One of my least favourite things about being a grad student was working alone. It just felt slow and arduous. I did iGEM for a couple years, so I know what it's like to really get stuff done. I would suggest thinking of project(s) that you'd like to work on, and then find professors that would host you or people that you really look up to, rather than taking an assigned project.

Synbio Axlr8r is also interesting because they're looking to inspire a similar mantra as with programming, where if you can do the coding then it doesn't matter what degree or background you have.

That's my opinion at the moment, in short. I think I'm only a few steps further down the line from where you are. Feel free to get in touch!

Kevin