Human enhancement

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

Hi. A hypothetical question: 

In Europe it is totally illegal to take any harmless gene from one species into another. However, what if you just delete a gene (say myostatin cut-out by crispr)? The resulting animal would be not-transgenic. So in theory it *is* legal to engineer feedstock or even humans with this? 

Note, I'm not interested in doing that myself*. Just wondering. 

*On the other hand, if it's legal and someone rich pays me a lot to do so, we can talk :P 

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

*livestock - not feedstock

[Steve]

Hi,  I like the H+ enhancement angle (thankfully you weren't heading down the Soylent Green path ....)
While it takes the law a while to catch up with advancements in most jurisdictions I expect you would attract unwelcome attention if you openly began "tweaking" higher organisms.
At the prokaryote and simpler eukaryote level, you may slide under the radar as it were.
The principles of the Helsinki Declaration are broadly respected internationally, see http://www.wma.net/en/30publications/10policies/b3/index.html (note: inspired by the Nuremberg Code).  Essentially it is the concept of human experimentation without oversight authority that would attract attention, not necessarily the technology or method applied to achieve it.
Even the mitochondrial transplant, so called three-parent embryos are controversial.
I am a huge fan of transhumanism, but perhaps honing the science on another organism first could open the door to bio augmented life?
Steve

On Thursday, 13 March 2014 12:37:24 UTC, Mega [Andreas Stuermer] wrote:

*livestock - not feedstock

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

As to the Helsinki declaration: If you totally know what you are doing, and what the result will be (e.g. from naturally myostatin deficient humans), then it is called engineering rather than experimentation?
Would it make a difference whether you choose to mate with a myostatin-deficient female, or whether you just knock it out yourself?

[qetzal]

Since when is it illegal in Europe to move genes between species?

[Cathal Garvey]

Without a license, it's illegal even to permit naturally compatible
species to conjugate on your premises. Police your pseudomonads closely,
they could get you in serious trouble someday.

On 16/03/14 03:35, qetzal wrote:
> Since when is it illegal in Europe to move genes between species?
>

--
T: @onetruecathal, @IndieBBDNA
P: +3538763663185
W: http://indiebiotech.com

[Bryan Bishop]

On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 2:05 AM, Cathal Garvey <cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

Without a license, it's illegal even to permit naturally compatible
species to conjugate on your premises. Police your pseudomonads closely,
they could get you in serious trouble someday.

Could you link me to the relevant regulations about that? Thank you.

- Bryan

http://heybryan.org/

1 512-203-0507

[Cathal Garvey]

If I forget to follow up on that question within a few hours, poke me.
Now's not a good time but I'm prone to forgetting such things.

Ireland fortunately has laws which are A) legal to read and B) available
online at http://www.irishstatutebook.ie, which is pretty neat.

If you're impatient, a search for "Genetically Modified Microorganism"
may yield quick results. It's all legislatorese of course, but parseable.

The gist is that they regulate the products of biotech "methods", which
includes (explicitly) transduction.

As a person "witnessing" a transduction event is legally difficult to
distinguish from someone "facilitating" a transduction event, one should
assume, to be safe, that knowing of an unsanctioned transduction
occurring within one's house is grounds for a lawsuit. :)

Ireland isn't actually insane; the law clearly is intended to mean
"deliberate" and the EPA are very reasonable people in my experience.
But the law's the law.. ;)

[Katherine Gordon]

Hello Mega,

I am a movie script writer. I also belong to the diybio forum.  I would love to chat with you at your earliest avaiability to discuss this issue with you at length.

I think that 3 parent embryos sound very high concept and futuristic. I would love to envision with you a story that may if done well....and shown at festivals.....push the envelope for further developments.

If your interested in contacting me please write to me directly at kthrn...@gmail.com 

Thank you,

Kate

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[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

Sounds awesome. I'm gonna shoot you a mail ;)

[Tom Randall]

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 2:51:38 AM UTC-4, scriptdoc wrote:

Hello Mega,

I am a movie script writer. I also belong to the diybio forum.  I would love to chat with you at your earliest avaiability to discuss this issue with you at length.

I think that 3 parent embryos sound very high concept and futuristic. I would love to envision with you a story that may if done well....and shown at festivals.....push the envelope for further developments.

If your interested in contacting me please write to me directly at kthrn...@gmail.com 

Thank you,

Kate

 Not so futuristic anymore, more of a regulatory issue, at least in one case, replacing the mitochondrial genome.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/health/ivf-mitochondria/

[Steve]

Hi Tom,
yes, the FDA have been dancing around the topic for more than a decade.
Hplus magazine (from 2008) discusses legal ramifications in various jurisdictions - http://hplusbiopolitics.wordpress.com/2008/03/02/those-with-germline-modified-mitochondria-walk-among-us/
They link also to an earlier article, the (not-so-subtle) distinctions between nuclear transfer and transfer of ooplasmic material as a means of achieving this are also covered.
Professor Chinnery of Wellcome Trust Centre for Mitochondrial Research was in the news back in 2008 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7227861.stm
http://www.newcastle-mitochondria.com/portfolio/professor-patrick-chinnery/
Jacques Cohens' group published their work in Lancet in 1997;
"Birth of infant after transfer of anucleate donor oocyte cytoplasm into recipient eggs."  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9250192
As those working in the area are wary of falling afoul of regulations on germline engineering, my understanding is that it had been presented as a happy, though unintended, consequence of cytoplasm transfer in an experimental fertility treatment.
Remains to be seen where we go from here..
Steve

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

http://www.genengnews.com/gen-news-highlights/fat-burning-hormone-also-cools-inflammation/81249951/

A hormone that mimics some of the benefits of doing physical exercises!!!!

A chance for an unlicenced medical store? XD

 

 

Honestly, would it be possible to have the protein synthesized in E.Coli and make it secrete it into the human intestine? Probably intake is inefficient (don't know a lot about pharmacokinetics though) but if you find the right expression level... Say 1% of xxx mg is taken up, then produce 100 times the dose :D

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

By honestly, I mean of "Psych, just kidding"  :D 

No unlicenced store.

english language difficult language  

[Alex]

On Jun 6, 2014 2:03 PM, "Mega [Andreas Stuermer]" <masters...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> By honestly, I mean of "Psych, just kidding"  :D 
> No unlicenced store.

"And this ISN'T the URL to access it..."

>
> english language difficult language  

>
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[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

Yes it is.

 

"In the study with mice, researchers at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute found that Metrnl injections decreased body fat by 25% and caused weight losses even in mice that were on a high-fat diet. Additional details from the study appeared in a paper published June 5 in Cell, in an article entitled “Meteorin-like Is a Hormone that Regulates Immune-Adipose Interactions to Increase Beige Fat Thermogenesis.”

The researchers, led by Bruce Spiegelman, Ph.D., discovered that unlike other exercise-related proteins that burn fat, Metrnl works mainly through the immune system, rather than directly on fat cells. Metrnl activates an alternative molecular pathway by which immune cells are recruited to enter fatty tissue, where they trigger the fat-burning process.

“The idea of a protein acting primarily through the immune cells in the fat is pretty amazing, at least in our view,” Dr. Spiegelman said.

The Metrnl findings come two years after the Spiegelman group isolated a different protein, irisin, produced in muscles by endurance as opposed to resistance exercise, which stimulates Metrnl secretion. Irisin also promotes the browning of fat to release energy and causes mice to lose weight; like Metrnl, irisin improves glucose tolerance, which helps prevent diabetes."