Oxalobacter formigenes probiotic suppliers? was: (Re)Becoming Human: what happened the day I replaced 99% of the genes in my body

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Nathan McCorkle

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Sep 30, 2014, 4:50:05 PM9/30/14
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The article mentions Oxalobacter formigenes being present in significant percentage in the Hadza, and that this is something that western microbiomes pretty much lack.

I tried googling oxalobacter probiotic, but didn't get very far. Is this something that doesn't exist? If it does, can someone post a link here? I've got a friend with kidney stones who has been living with them due to lack of western healthcare insurance.

The role of Oxalobacter formigenes colonization in calcium oxalate stone disease.




On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:

code elusive

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Oct 1, 2014, 9:36:58 AM10/1/14
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On 09/30/2014 11:49 PM, Nathan McCorkle wrote:
> The article mentions Oxalobacter formigenes being present in significant
> percentage in the Hadza, and that this is something that western
> microbiomes pretty much lack.
>
> I tried googling oxalobacter probiotic, but didn't get very far. Is this
> something that doesn't exist? If it does, can someone post a link here?
> I've got a friend with kidney stones who has been living with them due
> to lack of western healthcare insurance.
>

well, the short answer is that it does not seem to exist (yet), but some
people are already looking into making capsules with Oxalobacter
formigenes (and to market them as a drug).


More details:

From a short search there seems to be a Swedish company which aims to
market capsules[0] with Oxalobacter formigenes as a treatment for
Primary Hyperoxaluria. It also aims to market an orally delivered drug
composed of recombinant oxalate decarboxylase to prevent formation of
calcium-oxalate kidney stones [0]. Apparently, there is a clinical
trial[1] going-on and they are recruiting participants in France,
Germany and the UK.


It might be of interest that at the moment there are available
supplements with other bacteria, which may affect oxalate levels
(according to a limited number of studies). (You might have already read
about them, I have not delved into this subject in the past). In the
following paper (2005), entitled "Use of a probiotic to decrease enteric
hyperoxaluria", they've used Oxadrop®[3] which is similar to VSL#3 [4 & 5].

Another study[6] performed in 2010, indicated a decrease in oxalate
levels with VSL#3, albeit to a small number of healthy people.


However, looking into the subject of present and future treatments for
kidney stones, I found this review[7] from 2013, which says the following:

"The role of oxalate-degrading bacteria, such as O. formigenes, in CaOx
stone formation is a subject of current research. A pilot study showed
O. formignenes reduced plasma oxalate levels and urinary oxalate
excretion in the majority of PH patients [105], but the results could
not be unequivocally confirmed in a recent multicenter trial. There are
also inconsistent results with regard to the use of lactic acid bacteria
(probiotics) to reduce urinary oxalate excretion [106]. Treatment that
involves the upregulation of intestinal luminal oxalate secretion by
increasing anion transporter activity (Slc26a6), or use of oxalate
binders is another approach [107]."


So, maybe your friend could try VSL#3 (if he has not tried it already),
keeping in mind that it might not have an affect. I would also suggest
having a look at the review, it has some interesting info.


have a nice afternoon & the best of luck to your friend :)


elusive


[0] http://www.oxthera.com/products/
[1] https://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT02012985
[2] http://www.nature.com/ki/journal/v68/n3/full/4496205a.html
[3] Oxadrop®:
Lactobacillus acidophilus, L. brevis, Streptococcus thermophilus, and
Bifidobacterium infantis in a 1:1:4:4 ratio
[4] VSL#3:
3 of the above [see note 3] 4 bacterial species with the exception of L.
brevis, as well as 3 other species of Lactobacillus, and 2 other species
of bifidobacteria.
[5] http://www.vsl3.com/
[6] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20224931
[7] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772648/

Mega [Andreas Stuermer]

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Oct 1, 2014, 10:15:42 AM10/1/14
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I knew that kidney stones were made of ca-oxalate, so I (wrongly) associated them with the citrate cycle? Looking it up, oxalate is just a C2 body.... So it may not be inevitable as I previously thought. 

Thanks for bringing it up ;) 

Mega [Andreas Stuermer]

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Oct 1, 2014, 10:17:26 AM10/1/14
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I assumed oxalacetate from Krebs cycle could somehow react with Ca to form CaOxalate. Damn trivial names. 




On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:50:05 PM UTC+2, Nathan McCorkle wrote:

ralph cohen

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Sep 18, 2016, 6:42:26 PM9/18/16
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This report republished by the national insitutes of health concluded that "The probiotic supplement sold over the Internet by PRO-LAB Ltd and Sanzyme Ltd did not contain identifiable O. formigenes or viable oxalate-degrading organisms, and they are unlikely to be of benefit to calcium oxalate kidney stone patients." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25733259 I do not know if it is either of those but prior research for which I do not have citations available seemed to indicate it is available in Canada but not in the US.

LnTmomof5

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Oct 4, 2016, 12:15:15 PM10/4/16
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I, too, have been looking.... unsuccessfully, I might add.  If you have found out any information, I'd love to know how to purchase O. formigenes.


On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 at 4:50:05 PM UTC-4, Nathan McCorkle wrote:

Cee Cee James

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Mar 1, 2017, 11:51:43 AM3/1/17
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Has anyone found a product that contains this valuable bacteria as yet?!!!! 

Amy

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Mar 12, 2017, 5:31:43 PM3/12/17
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I'd love to know also!

E Greene

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Jun 19, 2018, 11:18:17 PM6/19/18
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Fourtts makes Oxalobact, which is sold in India and lists oxalobacter formigenes as an ingredient. I ordered some from a company in India and am about to order more.
I had my gut biome tested by Ubiome and I was completely lacking in Oxalobacter. I got the report a few days after I started passing stones

Nathan McCorkle

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Jun 20, 2018, 3:54:12 PM6/20/18
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On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 6:42 PM, E Greene <lizgre...@gmail.com> wrote:
Fourtts makes Oxalobact, which is sold in India and lists oxalobacter formigenes as an ingredient. I ordered some from a company in India and am about to order more.
I had my gut biome tested by Ubiome and I was completely lacking in Oxalobacter. I got the report a few days after I started passing stones

Awesome! I have family coming from India in a few weeks... I will ask them to look for it at their local stores! 

Hillie Bills

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Oct 19, 2018, 7:14:47 AM10/19/18
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https://www.atcc.org/products/all/35274.aspx#documentation

I found this-- I'm probably going to order it and see.  I've seen some brief mentions that O.f. supplementation doesn't reduce oxalate content in urine, but that seems like a fragment of a bigger story.  Any other anecdotes or success stories here? I'm one month oxalate-reduced and feeling a little better, but not much.


On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 at 4:50:05 PM UTC-4, Nathan McCorkle wrote:

John Godwin

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Jan 30, 2019, 7:40:04 PM1/30/19
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Hi E Greene,  Can you provide a link with whom you ordered from etc, googling has taken me to various Indian websites that are the middlemen bwtn manufacturer and purchaser, unable to purchase due to their set up not allowing for overseas payment at this stage.  Any help appreciated.  How did you order from Fourtts with payment being different as you don't reside in India?  How long did it take for the oxalobact to arrive? 

Dakota Hamill

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Jan 30, 2019, 7:45:37 PM1/30/19
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ATCC account takes months to setup an account even for a documented lab, probably impossible for an individual.

https://nrrl.ncaur.usda.gov/  is also good, but they are understaffed and it looks like their website won't even load, probably due to government shutdown.  You can get 14 or 25 strains free / year I think is still the policy, $75 or $40 each after that.  Forget numbers but that's ballpark. 

Presque Isle Cultures is a good company but it's very very small, husband and wife team.  Old website and strains listed online are only a fraction of what they have I believe.

No idea if you'll find what you're looking for but, a few other options. 

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Reginald Smith

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Jan 31, 2019, 9:58:40 AM1/31/19
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I second NRRL and that is where I get yeast or acetic acid bacteria cultures from. They take a couple of weeks and were off during the shutdown but I just got notification yesterday of one of my shipments so they move reasonably quickly and are free.

Please note, they DO NOT ship to individuals or post office boxes. I have a business (Supreme Vinegar LLC) so I get it shipped to the plant.

I just checked their culture DB though and they don't seem to have Oxalobacter formigenes.
Reggie

Dakota Hamill

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Jan 31, 2019, 10:10:09 AM1/31/19
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Just to add to the above, the NRRL does have a massive secondary catalogue called the patent database.  You can't search it but you can request strains from it.  Everyone who files a patent has to deposit a copy of the microbe somewhere.  So if you find a strain of the organism you want in literature or patent searches and it has an NRRL you can generally get it.  You have to write a ketter requesting it, state the use, wont be commercializing it yada yada and sign it.  

Terrible to find easily as it takes some leg work.  

John Godwin

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Jan 31, 2019, 11:14:33 PM1/31/19
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Here's a site that you can order from, just email them if the country you reside in is outside their payment set up. 
I ordered the Oxalobact but they also have the Oxalo avail, I went with the former as someone mentioned on here that the sanzyme oxalo variety was tested and had minimal oxalobacter formigenes in it, but they were part of positive findings in two studies, so its up to you.   Looking at the ingredients Oxalobact at least provides a breakdown of probiotic content, 700million for O formigenes and the rest lacto lactis bifido, so should also be helpful in reducing oxalates and hopefully re-inoculating the GIT so as to be able to have my healthy vegetarian diet once again with tasty superfoods- Chlorsig antibiotic changed all of this and worse.  

Stay tuned as to whether I receive the order, had to set up paypal to do so, coming from Fourrts company in India to Australia.  

Let me know if its helped you esp conditions associated with oxalate processing issues, ranging from pain joints, swelling oedema, immune system and more, have you been able to eat normally again and regain health and fitness?



On Thursday, January 31, 2019 at 11:15:37 AM UTC+10:30, Dakota Hamill wrote:
ATCC account takes months to setup an account even for a documented lab, probably impossible for an individual.



Patrik D'haeseleer

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Feb 1, 2019, 4:23:06 AM2/1/19
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NRRL is an awesome resource that I didn't know about yet - thanks a bunch!

I put together a list of culture collections a while back - there's a good number of strains you can get from educational suppliers for $10-$20 or so. Worth a look, but it's always a bit hit-or-miss:


Patrik

Gareth Hamilton-Foster

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Aug 9, 2019, 9:41:53 AM8/9/19
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Hi John,
Did your probiotics from India ever come in the end? I am also in Australia and I've just ordered some Oxalobact through Net For Health using my PayPal. The communication via email felt a little weird and dodgy. Like they were just trying to get my money. I so hope the product arrives.

Denise Brand

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Sep 17, 2019, 2:45:21 AM9/17/19
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Hi Gareth,  did your Oxalobact arrive.  I also have tried to order via email and pay with PayPal but things don't seem right.  Just this back an forth with emails that give a PayPal address and say there is an attached invoice but there isn't. Maybe their sales department isn't used to dealing with overseas clients.  They converted the amount to US$, did you pay via PayPal with Aust$?

Jim Rodgers

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Apr 13, 2020, 4:38:09 PM4/13/20
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Hi,
I was just on the Fortte website and on several other Indian sites where OXALOBAT Capsules are sold.  I viewed the capsule ingredients on the packaging.  As stated on the packaging, the ingredients are: "The salts Bifidobacterium Lactis, Fructo Oligosaccharide, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus are involved in the preparation of Oxalobact Capsule."  Nowhere was there a mention of Oxalobacter Formigenes being part of the capsule, despite the product name.  I decided not to order any of the OXALOBAT capsules despite the very low price.

Zonie deep

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Apr 13, 2020, 6:36:15 PM4/13/20
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I would stick to yogurt, sauerkraut, etc

Nathan McCorkle

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Apr 16, 2020, 4:14:00 PM4/16/20
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On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 1:38 PM Jim Rodgers <jim.rod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just on the Fortte website and on several other Indian sites where OXALOBAT Capsules are sold. I viewed the capsule ingredients on the packaging. As stated on the packaging, the ingredients are: "The salts Bifidobacterium Lactis, Fructo Oligosaccharide, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus are involved in the preparation of Oxalobact Capsule." Nowhere was there a mention of Oxalobacter Formigenes being part of the capsule, despite the product name. I decided not to order any of the OXALOBAT capsules despite the very low price.

Hi Jim,
A quick google for a photo of the package turns this up:
https://www.netmeds.com/images/product-v1/600x600/107200/oxalobact_capsule_10_s_0.jpg

it shows oxalobcater formigenes as the first ingredient.

carrie m

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Jan 3, 2023, 7:03:28 PM1/3/23
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does it still look like there are no legitimate commercial preparations with oxalobacter?

i discovered this article from 2014 in the urology journal where they tested two products oxalo (Sanzyme Ltd, Hyderabad, India) and pro-lab (canada), and it turned out there was no detectable O formigenes.
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