Current examples of DIYbio that I see, what others do people see?

[Nathan McCorkle]

Examples I see...
To date most completed projects have focused on lowering the cost of
laboratory equipment associated with biotechnology.

An Irish bio-hacker named Cathal Garvey created an adapter that can be
printed on a MakerBot (or any 3D printer). When attached to a Dremel
tool it creates a centrifuge capable of performing to the standard of
many lab standard models. This creation dropped the price of a
centrifuge from thousands to a few dollars and made the technology
much more widely available. (http://diybio.org/2010/03/21/906/) Josh
Perfetto and Tito Jankowski created openPCR, a thermocycler device
that heats and cools micro centrifuge tubes filled with PCR reaction
mix to amplify DNA. This unit too compares with comparable commercial
devices selling for more than 5 times the
price.(http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/12/reviews_pcr/) SpikerBox is
an amplifier kit for listening to the action potentials generated by
neurons.(http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0030837)
The Pearl Biotech gel electrophoresis box is another example of a key
biotech lab item that's open-source.
(http://singularityhub.com/2009/10/29/open-hardware-for-molecular-biology-experiments/)
Cory Tobin of LA BioHackers experimented and produced a plasmid
mini-prep extraction protocol using centrifugal ion chromatography
with silica columns and common household
ingredients.(http://wiki.biohackers.la/Miniprep)

[Sebastian S. Cocioba]

I would definitely add the OpenTaq polymerase expressing plasmid from openbiotech.com as a great example. I mentioned this before but its so awesome i had to post. The plasmid is in the public domain so no copyright or patent infringement!

Sebastian S Cocioba
CEO & Founder
New York Botanics, LLC

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[Dakota]

I'm going to buy that, mini prep it, and give it away for free

[Dakota]

let's see if it works....

[Sebastian S. Cocioba]

Thats the spirit! If you develop any protocol for quick and clean taq isolation and purification please do post your results. In working on that on my end as well.

Sebastian S Cocioba
CEO & Founder
New York Botanics, LLC

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On Sep 28, 2012, at 2:52 AM, Dakota <dko...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm going to buy that, mini prep it, and give it away for free
>

[Michael Turner]

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Examples I see...
> To date most completed projects have focused on lowering the cost of
> laboratory equipment associated with biotechnology.

FYI for those not in the article-rewrite loop: the following is
verbatim from the Talk page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:DIYbio

> An Irish bio-hacker named Cathal Garvey created an adapter that can be
> printed on a MakerBot (or any 3D printer). When attached to a Dremel
> tool it creates a centrifuge capable of performing to the standard of
> many lab standard models. This creation dropped the price of a
> centrifuge from thousands to a few dollars and made the technology
> much more widely available. (http://diybio.org/2010/03/21/906/) Josh
> Perfetto and Tito Jankowski created openPCR, a thermocycler device
> that heats and cools micro centrifuge tubes filled with PCR reaction
> mix to amplify DNA. This unit too compares with comparable commercial
> devices selling for more than 5 times the
> price.(http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/12/reviews_pcr/) SpikerBox is
> an amplifier kit for listening to the action potentials generated by
> neurons.(http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0030837)
> The Pearl Biotech gel electrophoresis box is another example of a key
> biotech lab item that's open-source.
> (http://singularityhub.com/2009/10/29/open-hardware-for-molecular-biology-experiments/)

I strongly suggest to anyone interested in contributing example that
they take the issue up on the talk page of the article. It's really
pretty easy. You don't need an account, though that helps.

I'll add the following from Nathan to that talk page:

> Cory Tobin of LA BioHackers experimented and produced a plasmid
> mini-prep extraction protocol using centrifugal ion chromatography
> with silica columns and common household
> ingredients.(http://wiki.biohackers.la/Miniprep)

Regards,
Michael Turner
Project Persephone
1-25-33 Takadanobaba
Shinjuku-ku Tokyo 169-0075
(+81) 90-5203-8682
tur...@projectpersephone.org
http://www.projectpersephone.org/

"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward
together in the same direction." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Michael Turner
<michael.eu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Examples I see...
>> To date most completed projects have focused on lowering the cost of
>> laboratory equipment associated with biotechnology.
>
> FYI for those not in the article-rewrite loop: the following is
> verbatim from the Talk page:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:DIYbio

Michael I posted it here because you were right, wikipedia wasn't the
right place to talk about it. I don't really have discussions on
wikipedia, I like this list for that stuff.

[Michael Turner]

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Michael Turner
> <michael.eu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Examples I see...
>>> To date most completed projects have focused on lowering the cost of
>>> laboratory equipment associated with biotechnology.
>>
>> FYI for those not in the article-rewrite loop: the following is
>> verbatim from the Talk page:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:DIYbio
>
> Michael I posted it here because you were right, wikipedia wasn't the
> right place to talk about it.

Proper attribution in the process would have been nice.

> I don't really have discussions on
> wikipedia, I like this list for that stuff.

When the discussions are about deliberations on the content of a
Wikipedia article, they should take place on the talk page for that
article. Wikipedia works in part through transparency. That's harder
to achieve with the discussion is scattered. Wikipedia also enshrines
neutrality. That's harder to achieve when there's a source of bias,
and contributions from a mailing list of enthusiasts can be a source
of bias. Finally, Wikipedia says, "Be Bold". A mailing list is a
relatively safe place to make mistakes. You can blow a lot of
keystrokes on bloviation. Editing an article that thousands of people
might read in the next 24 hours takes a little more gumption.
("Gumption"?! Ooh, the diction of the middle-aged. I'd better write
"cool" a few more times, to seem more biopunkish.)

[Mega]

Good examples. 

Now immagine what sort of things would've been done if gene synthesis was chepaer a factor of 50-100 !!

[Cathal Garvey]

..if the guy supplies individuals, why not let people get it for
themselves, and help the creator of open-source biotech products make a
living?

I'm not against sharing DNA of course; that's part of my own motivation
for going Open Source. But deliberately mass-sharing for free when the
product's already open is actually going to hurt the creator. Share with
friends. Share face to face. Share when you'd share normally. But this
guy is already "giving it away", he's just charging so he can carry on
designing new things to share, and to make a living doing it.

So, yea. Sorry; this is my planned business model, I was kinda hoping
people would be more enthusiastic about chipping-in!

On 28/09/12 07:52, Dakota wrote:
> I'm going to buy that, mini prep it, and give it away for free
>

--
www.indiebiotech.com
twitter.com/onetruecathal
joindiaspora.com/u/cathalgarvey
PGP Public Key: http://bit.ly/CathalGKey

[Dakota]

I agree with everything you said Cathal, and as someone that also
hopes to someday offer something of value to the DIY community I can
see how undercutting that with a free give away makes the entire
operation pretty much null and void. Let's say when I wrote that I
wasn't thinking about that aspect of it immediately, was more excited
to try to help people and jumped the gun. I'm all for helping people
that provide a good product or service with compensation so they
continue to do so.

[Bryan Bishop]

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 2:37 AM, Cathal Garvey <cathal...@gmail.com> wrote:

So, yea. Sorry; this is my planned business model, I was kinda hoping
people would be more enthusiastic about chipping-in!

You plan to sell material? I think a lot of companies have shown that the real long-term business model is in offering services on top of that.

- Bryan
http://heybryan.org/
1 512 203 0507

[Avery louie]

Offering services is nice, but unless cathal manages to hire people he I imagine he will end up with a lot of hours as a consultant.  Its hard to start new things while consulting.

--A

[Bryan Bishop]

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Avery louie <inact...@gmail.com> wrote:

Offering services is nice, but unless cathal manages to hire people he I imagine he will end up with a lot of hours as a consultant.  Its hard to start new things while consulting.

Then you increase your prices until it's easy to start new things. $500/hour -> $3,000/hour. boom.

[John Griessen]

On 10/01/12 02:37, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> So, yea. Sorry; this is my planned business model, I was kinda hoping
> people would be more enthusiastic about chipping-in!
>
> On 28/09/12 07:52, Dakota wrote:
>> > I'm going to buy that, mini prep it, and give it away for free

This worries me also.

On 10/01/12 08:22, Dakota wrote:
> Let's say when I wrote that I
> wasn't thinking about that aspect of it immediately, was more excited
> to try to help people and jumped the gun. I'm all for helping people
> that provide a good product or service with compensation so they
> continue to do so.

Most folks don't want to "make things" that are not-their-job,
and in research, non-leading-edge. So, I'm hoping along with Cathal
that there will be buyers for good building block style equipment,
diagnostics, reagents, bio fabbing materials, etc.

On 10/01/12 08:58, Bryan Bishop wrote:
> the real long-term business model is in offering services

I think material and stepping stone parts and machines will sell,
if your selling site has enough selection to seem worth ordering from.
Once you've gotten a buy decision, tossing other bits in the box is an easy sell.

Offering services usually has a pull in new directions that are not your vision,
but a customer's, while the customer is in business for them, not you, and it may not benefit you.

On 10/01/12 09:03, Bryan Bishop wrote:
> $500/hour -> $3,000/hour. boom.

It's hard for me (and likely Cathal either), to get excited over such exaggeration right now, working on
our infrastructure...and when consultant gigs usually require signing iron-clad contracts
transferring ownership of your hired IP and often agreeing not to compete for years...

John Griessen
systems EE and mechanical/manufacturing designer and salesman

[Cathal Garvey]

I didn't mistake enthusiasm for malice, don't worry. :) If this weren't
an "Open" company, I'd have fewer qualms about sharing promiscuously.. ;)

[Dan Wright]

I would echo that. I just got some PCR Mastermix from them. I did a very small amount proofing their web page and they sent me a sample as a thank you.

It came in a couple days. I am still waiting for my free samples from NEB and Lucigen.  They both said they would send them.  Neither came. Lucigen sent a brochure. Commercial address. Lame. 

On Oct 1, 2012, at 3:28 PM, BioGuy <justin....@gmail.com> wrote:

I think a lot of people are doing fantastic work on bringing down costs and accessibility to biotech equipment which is great and fantastic!

However, I think potentially the biggest hurdle that needs to be overcome right now is accessibility of reagents. Just as an example recently I've been trying to compare TAE, TBE, TB, TA, Na Boric Acid, and Li Boric Acid in terms of their use as running buffers. Just having access (not even money) to buy chemical reagents is an enormous hurdle in itself. For example I tried purchasing from Carolina - one item was simply reagent grade NaCl - and they wouldn't ship any of it. They will only ship to established businesses or schools. Same response from other chemical suppliers. It doesn't seem to be that difficult to acquire these if I wanted to work through the local hackerspace here in Portland, but its not necessarily the ideal environment.

I haven't even got to the point of trying to procure a plasmid with a corresponding single cutting restriction enzyme yet, but I can't see how things will be any less difficult. As it is right now I don't see how an individual can pursue DIYBio without being associated with some kind of institution that can establish accounts with life science and chemical suppliers.

In the 1970s a computer revolution occurred in people's garages. The price point was low enough and anyone had access to purchase what they wanted to experiment with. Now, the price point of reagents are low enough to foster DIYbio, however, these reagents aren't accessible to the individual. As long as this is the case and chemical and biological reagents MUST be purchased by an institution of some kind then a new biotech revolution cannot occur like what appeared in the 1970s with information technology.

To add insult to injury - lets imagine you have a bright high school student and they develop an interest in chemistry and biology. What can they do after their classes? Pretty much nothing. But...if they were interested in electronics they would have absolutely no problems. Computers and programming - no problem. Working on cars - no problems. Setting up physics and electrical experiments in their garage - no problem. Yet working with chemistry and biology is virtually inaccessible right now. A student can read all he wants, but if he wants to actually DO then he is stuck.

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[Nathan McCorkle]

You could just get a mailbox at a commercial address in Portland, here
are some UPS Store convenient locations:
http://goo.gl/maps/bQDnq

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[Justin Dormandy]

Well if any people are interested in getting something off the ground to start selling reagents to individuals get in touch with me. If there's enough interest we could work on developing a business or non-profit, open wholesale accounts with suppliers, purchase some tort liability insurance, and repackage the bulk quantities suppliers usually sell into smaller lower priced quantities for individuals. I think once reagents are more accessible to the average person there would be a lot more creative energy that would flow into the DIYbio space. I believe the price point is low enough for people to innovate in their garage, but they don't have access. I think a reasonable analogy to the IT revolution that started in the 1970s is electronic components. Imagine what the world would look like today if in the 1970s people were allowed to buy equipment, they could get education, but the caveat was you could only buy basic electronic components (diodes, resistors, transistors, ICs, you name it) if you were an institution. Today those basic electronic components are the basic reagents people need to do chemical and life science work.

[John Griessen]

On 10/04/12 20:24, Justin Dormandy wrote:
> Well if any people are interested in getting something off the ground to start selling reagents to individuals get in touch
> with me. If there's enough interest we could work on developing a business or non-profit, open wholesale accounts with
> suppliers, purchase some tort liability insurance, and repackage the bulk quantities suppliers usually sell into smaller lower
> priced quantities for individuals. I think once reagents are more accessible to the average person there would be a lot more
> creative energy that would flow into the DIYbio space. I believe the price point is low enough for people to innovate in their
> garage, but they don't have access. I think a reasonable analogy to the IT revolution that started in the 1970s is electronic
> components. Imagine what the world would look like today if in the 1970s people were allowed to buy equipment, they could get
> education, but the caveat was you could only buy basic electronic components (diodes, resistors, transistors, ICs, you name it)
> if you were an institution. Today those basic electronic components are the basic reagents people need to do chemical and life
> science work.

That's a good analogy. I'm interested -- I've launched a simple kit product, a custom kind of extension cord
for repairing or calibrating old Tektronix oscilloscopes, with all the international haggling, mechanical design,
packing and shipping and bookkeeping and taxes work that entails.

John Griessen
--
Ecosensory Austin TX

[Josiah Zayner]

Why not? So many people do this already. Open Science is not about making money. It is about Open Science. If one wants to make money come up with something truly innovative or provide a service people need.
These vectors should be available for a nominal fee + shipping. I should be acquiring a Taq plasmid very soon and since minipreps are so easy and cheap I would be willing to give it away for cheeeaappp. It is a 6xhis tagged taq polymerase so it can be easily purified using nickel affinity chromatography.

For people looking for chemicals try ebay. TBE/TAE are what everyone uses for gel electrophoresis no need to test different buffers. I see you can buy 80g of Trizma-acetate on eBay for $15. And EDTA is easily found on eBay for cheap.

One can buy antibiotics on eBay if you are doing bacterial selection. It is a pretty great place.

[Justin Dormandy]

TBE/TAE are what everyone uses for gel electrophoresis no need to test different buffers.

Sometimes something works, it becomes standard, but it might not be the best or even a good solution:

http://www.cc.ahs.chula.ac.th/Molmed/DNA%20electro%27s%20conductive%20media.pdf
http://www.biotechniques.com/multimedia/archive/00036/BTN_A_04362BM02_O_36180a.pdf
http://www.biotechniques.com/multimedia/archive/00037/BTN_A_04374ST04_O_37093a.pdf

This is probably the only thing I would argue against in your post. 

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[drllau]

Just to give people some perspective, there's a growing movement in China + Europe + US on open-hardware
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi_hardware

what happens is that the top-level people/designers effectively form a co-op, and then negotiate to achieve project objectives (self-defined), all within a person-2-person context (not strict legal obtuseness)

< quote>

Qi Hardware is sharing hardware.

We document all steps necessary to build hardware so anyone may join us or reproduce our hardware.

The ultimate goals are:

• to bring people together to share
• to fully document our hardware platform
• to share plans + software for manufacturing

< /quote>
A similar pattern can apply to biological hardware components analogous to BioBricks. If people are interested in the nuts & bolts (caveat biologicals import/export is not standard slip in post) then contact me offline.

Lawrence
http://www.linkedin.com/in/drllau

[Bryan Bishop]

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 9:04 AM, drllau <drlawr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If people are interested in the nuts & bolts (caveat biologicals
> import/export is not standard slip in post) then contact me offline.

I am pretty sure we would all be interested in that. Why does it have
to be offline?