DIY Anaerobe Jar? Is it possible?

[Stephen Fortune]

Greetings one and all

I'm here, figurative cap in hand, to ask a favour of your expertise.

I need to use an anaerobic jar to grow a particularly difficult to culture strain of methanogen. They are completely anaerobic.

It's for an art project where I am attempting to use Fritz Haber's methane whistle in conjunction with the gas emitted by methanogens. I'm funding the project myself, and most anaerobe jars are expensive from the point of view of what I have available to spend on the project.

To a novices eye it looks like an anaerobic jar could be prepared using a mason jar, but then I read that the lid of an anaerobic jar requires a certain palladium catalystic element in order to induce the conversion of O2 and hydrogen to water.

I was therefore wondering if anyone had heard of anyone who created an anaerobic jar, in DIY fashion?

Stephen

www.thereisnowetware.com

[Brian Degger]

Not sure if it will help but .....
Try looking at making a winogradsky column from esturine mud.
Some layers of them are definitely anareobic

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/-/rnW95sab6TUJ.
> To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio?hl=en.
>

--
------------------------------------------
Brian Degger
transitlab.org
mobile [UK]: +44 7846623934
brian....@gmail.com | skype: briandegger | twitter: @drbrian
locale: Newcastle, UK 
------------------------------------------

[Nathan McCorkle]

welding supply of argon, or fumes of dry-ice piped to bottom of a mason jar??

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "DIYbio" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/-/rnW95sab6TUJ.
> To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio?hl=en.

--
Nathan McCorkle
Rochester Institute of Technology
College of Science, Biotechnology/Bioinformatics

[Mega]

It may be that my native language is not English, but I don't see the problem...
If the (former marmelade) jar needs to contain no air, then flood it by the gas of a cigarette lighter.
Platinum wire and other metal wires are often sold e.g. on ebay. Surely, platinum is expensive. But the wires are quite affordable, as those are just a few gramms. And maybe just the surface is platinum - those are even cheaper. Make a lattice with small gaps, for filtering the air? 

Ore take a lattice of iron and galvanize it with platinum (less work with making the latice, cheaper. If you have the chemicals)

That's just my idea... But I don't know how obligate anaerobe those are....

[Simon Quellen Field]

Generating methane is easy:

" http://www.small-farm-permaculture-and-sustainable-living.com/methane_generator.html "

Methanogens are pretty robust -- you won't have to worry a lot about their survival

in a slurry of animal waste and straw. Why you would pick a "particularly difficult

to culture strain" for this project is a mystery only you can shed light upon.

So, while I do in fact sell platinum coated nickel wire on my web site for a price

you will find hard to beat elsewhere, I would recommend simply using the bacteria

that is already in the manure, and not bothering with platinum at all.

-----

Get a free science project every week! "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/-/TtrFDOv4xLIJ.

[Stephen Fortune]

Thank you for all the answers so far everyone.

I'm hoping to work with a strain of archaea native to human gut flora. Alas I've been advised that they are not particularly robust. If possible I'd like to keep the link to human microbes.

Do the platinum wires help eliminate the presence of oxygen (forgive my ignorance on these matters)

[Simon Quellen Field]

I sell the wire for our hydrogen fuel cell project.

I suspect it will scavenge oxygen if there is hydrogen present.

But the human gut has oxygen, even where the methanogens live.

So it seems strange that your protocol requires an oxygen-free environment.

-----

Get a free science project every week! "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"

[ByoWired]

On Wednesday, March 21, 2012 4:46:39 PM UTC-4, Stephen Fortune wrote:

I need to use an anaerobic jar to grow a particularly difficult to culture strain of methanogen. They are completely anaerobic.

It seems to me you could de-gas your growth media by putting it under a vacuum for a while.  Then purge with argon, tanks of which you can get at most welding places.   After inoculating, you could purge the head space of your culture tubes (or whatever) with argon coming through a 0.2 micron filter, then perhaps, if your microbes can stand it, add a little bit of ascorbic acid to the media to scavenge any remaining oxygen.  If I remember correctly, about 25 mg of ascorbic acid per 100 ml of water should do the trick.  

It sounds like you're not so much interested in making methane as you are in trying to automate human fart production.  True?

Be careful: just because it's a gas being made by microbes does not mean it's somehow safe because it's natural.  Methane is methane no matter where it comes from, so the stuff can blow up in your face, burn down your house, or sear your eyeballs.  Once it combines with air, it will be an explosive mixture.  

[Simon Quellen Field]

Instead of argon, I would use methane.

It's a lot cheaper, and it is what you want in there anyway.

-----

Get a free science project every week! "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/-/fF7woWnciH0J.

[Stephen Fortune]

It sounds like you're not so much interested in making methane as you are in trying to automate human fart production.  True?

:)

Well it's certainly an unavoidable comparison. But the initial hope was to obliquely sonify the traces created by the microbes inside us (me) by linking it back to the methane whistle (similar acoustic effect as helium voices really), but I'm not sure sufficient hydrogen would be produced by gut microbes to leave an audible trace.

So in addition to having an air tight environment, is it advisable to purge the media which the microbes will be cultured in?

Instead of argon, I would use methane.

Also, and again forgive my ignorance, how is methane equivalent to methane for the purposes of maintaining an anaerobic environment

Thanks every for the helpful feedback so far

Best

Stephen

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@​googlegroups.com.

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Stephen Fortune
<stephen....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It sounds like you're not so much interested in making methane as you are
>> in trying to automate human fart production.  True?
>
>
> :)
>
> Well it's certainly an unavoidable comparison. But the initial hope was to
> obliquely sonify the traces created by the microbes inside us (me) by
> linking it back to the methane whistle (similar acoustic effect as helium
> voices really), but I'm not sure sufficient hydrogen would be produced by
> gut microbes to leave an audible trace.

You're thinking methane from your gut is coming up your throat?

>
> So in addition to having an air tight environment, is it advisable to purge
> the media which the microbes will be cultured in?
>

Won't hurt, if they don't need oxygen then get rid of it!

>
>> Instead of argon, I would use methane.
>
>
> Also, and again forgive my ignorance, how is methane equivalent to methane
> for the purposes of maintaining an anaerobic environment
>

I think you meant to ask how is argon equivalent to methane in
establishing an anaerobic environment... well, they're both
non-oxygen... argon is pretty much non-reactive, though as mentioned
Methane can explode.

LPG or propane would probably work similarly to methane, or maybe even
butane... hopefully these gasses don't melt plastic petri dishes
(you'd probably more than 1 ATM of pressure to do that with any
rapidity though)!

[Simon Quellen Field]

The reason for using methane as the purging agent is that you expect there to be

plenty of methane in the environment you are attempting to set up.

If I was setting up an environment for humans, I might suggest flushing all

the hydrogen and methane out using air.

Since you are growing methanogens, flushing out any toxic (to them) gases

with the gas they produce normally, and live in, seems natural.

You did not say what your methanogens breathe in.

Some convert hydrogen and carbon dioxide into methane.

For those, the ideal flushing gas would be a mix of hydrogen and carbon dioxide.

Other methanogens convert acetate or acetic acid to methane.

One reason your chosen critter is 'difficult to culture' might be that it is difficult

to grow as a pure culture. Many methanogens rely on other bacteria to digest

starches and carbohydrates into hydrogen, carbon dioxide, ammonia, and

organic acids. The methanogens then live on those byproducts. Without the

commensal bacteria, the methanogens could be quite difficult to grow.

Starting with the natural mixed ecology found in animal waste, methane is easy

to produce, and the bacteria are easy to grow. And it better simulates what is

going on in the animal gut than any pure culture could.

-----

Get a free science project every week! "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.

To post to this group, send email to diy...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+un...@googlegroups.com.