Hydrogen Peroxide on the face

[Dakota Hamill]

I bought a bunch of hydrogen peroxide to dump on manganese dioxide I extracted from batteries to make oxygen gas and then light things on fire with.  The other day, I soaked a piece of toilet paper and wiped my face down with it because I had a pimple forming and figured I would dry it out/kill the bacteria? even though alcohol rubs are better for the drying part.  Anyway, my face started to wreak, and the closest smell I can associate it with is acetic acid, and pickle juice.  I immediately thought that perhaps the hydrogen peroxide was oxidizing some of the oils on my face to carboxylic acids, which was giving it the stench.  I tried wafting the H2O2 but realized it was in vain because I couldn't tell if the smell was coming from the bottle or from my face.

So I dumped out a little bit of olive oil into a glass and poured in a bunch of hydrogen peroxide the next day, and wafted it and nothing smelled.  I then poured in more and left it overnight, still no smell.

I am wondering if anyone might have any insight into what the smell may be from, and I encourage you to try it...just soak a cloth with H2O2 3% from the store, and rub it on your face, and you will smell an acidic pickle smell.

-Dakota 

[leaking pen]

i use h202 as a topical antifungal/biotic all the time, never had any
such effect.

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[Dakota Hamill]

Go soak some tissue in 3% and rub it on your face, cheek, nose, chin, etc and tell me it doesn't smell.  I just did it litterally 5 seconds ago, the bottle is sitting next to me. All I smell is a rancid smell like rotten socks

[Dakota Hamill]

Well I've had a couple emails replies from Hugh Cahill <hugh....@gmail.com>  who thought it might be peracetic acid.  He thought I should test it on different parts of my body besides my face(good idea!).  I just soaked toilet paper in 3% H2O2 and I soaked a T-shirt in H2O2 (different material) and rubbed them on each arm.  after only 5 seconds or so, both arms wreaked liked dirty socks and sweat, and smelled similiarty to acetic acid, but not the same as acetic acid.  

I also filled up an empty pickle jar with half volume of the peroxide solution, we will see how it smells in a few minutes.

[Dakota Hamill]

Both my arms have stopped wreaking like old sweaty socks about 2 minutes after exposure to 3% hydrogen peroxide solution, and the pickle jar I diluted with about 400 mL of 3% H2O2 still smells like acetic acid...so either the acetic acid concentration in the pickle jar is overwhelming the smell of some other compound, or the oils on my skin are producing something different.

[Dave Casey]

I use a jug of 27% H2O2 instead of chlorine to sanitize a sensory deprivation tank. When I've used a dilute solution of it to wipe down the walls of the tank, I have noticed a smell similar to the one you describe on my skin for the next few hours. (I've described it as a cross between dairy products going bad and sweaty old birkenstocks on a hot summer day.) I had always assumed that this was what H2O2 smelled like. Per your suggestion, I cautiously wafted some air over the H2O2 jug, and, what do ya know? There was no smell. So that nasty sour funk was apparently broken down (or breaking down) parts of me, or something that was living on me? Wow.

(note, 27% H2O2 will burn your skin surprisingly fast, so dilute down to 3% before you even think about splashing some of it on yourself.)

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[Dakota Hamill]

yes! exactly.  I poured it out into 3 different containers to waft just in case I was missing an inate smell of H2O2, but it is orderless (which I thought but had to be sure of)  and there is something going on on my skin that gives off the smell, because pickle juice + hydrogen peroxide alone do not give that smell, at least in the experiments I 've done in the past 3 days.

[Bob Keyes]

As someone who has suffered from skin problems for many years, I have come to the conclusion that there are very different substances which makes their way to the skin and cause irritation and skin blemishes. As such, the treatment by h2o2 can cause a variety of reactions. The 'oil' on your skin may be one of many oils, OR SOMETHING ELSE. I am not sure of all that my pores have been exposed to, but some substances have the characteristics of acids or alcohols and not simple oils. I think that this is a combination of that which you eat & drink, and the hormones actives in your system, and perhaps external factors like second-hand smoke. I believe that the skin serves as another excretory organ for toxic or waste substances, which is why such things as tequila cause a hangover stench smelling odd, because these are degradation products not only of ethanol, but of the nasty fusel oils & so forth in tequila. Those who have had bad hangovers, do you ever wonder why you feel better after a shower? I think it's two-fold, one being the re-hydration of the body and the other being the shedding of toxic substances. Now, I became a vegetarian some years ago. But I sometimes wish I wasn't, and eat some meat. The more I eat, and the type of what I eat, presents its evidence in my excretions AND in my mood. I don't want to start an argument pro or con meat, but it does make a person SMELL different. If I can detect it on myself, certainly others can as well. I can also smell when I've had a lot of cheese, such as when I have a pizza indulgence. As far as cures for skin problems, I have found that using topical gel alcohols (as opposed to liquid alcohols) is more effective on big zits. General skin tone is helped by a topical solution of USP .05% clobetasol propionate in isoproal alcohol. Sure, it seems to erase any suntan I may have, but I don't care that much (goth points?). For those of you that trace genetic traits towards such things, I do appear to have 1/16 Scottish ancestry (Scots seems to be prone to acne). Not much. But all of my ancestry (as far as I can tell ) is northern European. Make of it what you will. Is personal experience with skin problems appropriate for this forum? Only as long as it's based in good science and reason. In that sense, I am presenting more in personal evidence rather than good experimental data, but I hope that this will help encourage the design of good experiments. And to the capitalists among us: There is a lot of money in acne cures. But please do not bullshit the population.

[Dave Casey]

Prepped back of left forearm by scrubbing vigorously with isopropyl pads, and drying with a paper towel. No prep of back of right forearm, or of stinky pair of birkenstocks.
Using separate pieces of paper towel, I dabbed some 3% H2O2 on each forearm and the left birkenstock. After about a minute both forearms developed a sour smell, the left birkenstock actually seemed a slightly less nasty, and the right birkenstock remained as unpleasant as it usually does.

 A few minutes later, both forearms still smell sour, the right birkenstock seems about the same as ever, and the left birkenstock is developing a whole new dimension of funk that I won't need to describe because you can probably smell by now from where you are. Sorry about that.

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Dakota Hamill <dko...@gmail.com> wrote:

yes! exactly.  I poured it out into 3 different containers to waft just in case I was missing an inate smell of H2O2, but it is orderless (which I thought but had to be sure of)  and there is something going on on my skin that gives off the smell, because pickle juice + hydrogen peroxide alone do not give that smell, at least in the experiments I 've done in the past 3 days.

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[leaking pen]

It doesn't smell. I seem to be alone here, as you all are reporting
otherwise. Weird. I do smell a bit of ozone smell, which is from the
concentrated oxygen beingreleased.

[Dave Casey]

Today, using separate cotton balls, I dabbed some 3% H2O2 on my forearm, and on my wife's forearm.
After a minute, there was a strong vinegar smell on my forearm, and an extremely faint, almost imperceptible hint of a vinegar smell on my wife's forearm.

We could both smell it, so it seems to be more a matter of perspiration content than of olfactory ability.

[Dakota Hamill]

Well I used an odorless soap to wash off one of my arms, and then applied H2O2 after drying it, and there was no vinegary smell, while the other arm that was not washed had the sour smell.  It probably is some carboxylic acid being formed, but it still doesn't smell exactly like acetic acid.

[leaking pen]

well, h202 degrades vinegar into peracetic acid.

[Dakota Hamill]

yeah Hugh linked me the wikipedia page for peracetic acid last night.  I dumped out a pickle jar and left a tiny bit of brine in there and added a whole lot of peroxide solution and let it sit overnight.  The jar still had an overwhelmingly pickle juice smell, or acetic acid, but maybe it just overpowered or mixed in with any peracetic acid that was formed.  I suppose I'll have to settle with peracetic acid as the culprit, but the thing I don't get is why my skin wouldn't smell like acetic acid all the time, since it must be present in order to make the peracetic acid.  Maybe the nose is more sensitive to peracetic acid than it is to acetic acid?

[Nima Khazaei]

Perhaps we should investigate components of sweat as possible culprits in the smell-producing reaction with H2O2. Lactate is present in high concentrations. My orgo is too weak to be able to tell offhand how it'd react, but testing shouldn't be hard. It appears in a lot of sour milk-based foods.

Also, this thread is certified nuclease-free win.

—Nima Khazaei

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Dakota Hamill <dko...@gmail.com> wrote:

yeah Hugh linked me the wikipedia page for peracetic acid last night.  I dumped out a pickle jar and left a tiny bit of brine in there and added a whole lot of peroxide solution and let it sit overnight.  The jar still had an overwhelmingly pickle juice smell, or acetic acid, but maybe it just overpowered or mixed in with any peracetic acid that was formed.  I suppose I'll have to settle with peracetic acid as the culprit, but the thing I don't get is why my skin wouldn't smell like acetic acid all the time, since it must be present in order to make the peracetic acid.  Maybe the nose is more sensitive to peracetic acid than it is to acetic acid?

--

[Dakota Hamill]

Well I just so happened to have some rancid milk and although it smells bad, it still has a distinctly rancid milk smell.  It was only dated to go bad Aug 2nd, so I'll give it a few more days.  I dumped in some hydrogen peroxide and it still just smelled like milk, it was hard to sniff a lot though I wanted to gag.  

I had just gotten back from a run and was sweating, so I took out one of my socks which was damp with sweat and poured some hydrogen peroxide on it, I detected no smell coming off of the sock, and it was a brand new sock too so the only thing that touched it was sweat that time (no residual bacteria maybe from old or not washed socks).

I then took the sock which had no smell, and rubbed the part wet with hydrogen peroxide onto my arm, which I had just showed 30 minutes ago, and used a little soap on it, but not a lot.  It immediately began to stink with the characteristic sour smell, very similar, but again not identical to acetic acid.  

So ruling sweat out, I still think it is some oil on our skin being oxidized, or perhaps its dead skin/bacteria cells lysing open and releasing something?  

I don't have pure white vinegar in my house or I would try out the peroxide solution into a tiny bit of vinegar and see if the smell changes at all.

The hunt for the culprit continues...

Maybe everyone is right though, and it's a little bit o everything all mixed together

[Jay Woods]

I'd guess propanoic acid, a common odor chemical on feet (and in
fermenting silage). It could even being formed from 3-omega fatty acids
in your diet.