What kind of reports / coaching and activites parents get in the paid membership ?

[Mariam Hussien]

Hi,

I want to see sample of the reports , coaching and activities parents get in the paid membership. Can I ?

Thanks

[Jennifer Johnson]

Everything is in flux right now, so you may want to wait. I just came here because I noticed my kids aren't Extra Awesome anymore and I see no way to renew it.

I'm assuming we'll be updated soon? I know there were some changes going on with the introduction of camps.

[Mariam Hussien]

So Jennifer you upgraded for paid membership but you didn't get this reports or coaching ?

[Jennifer Johnson]

We had paid memberships since the time Extra Awesome was introduced. The kids got included patches automatically sent when they earned them, more Mod activity on their posted projects (if you call that coaching), and access to the "Insights" tab, which I now believe is available to everyone.

I'd say the mod activity diminished over time, and then yesterday the kids noticed they weren't 'extra awesome' anymore.

Hopefully someone at DIY will respond here soon, but I suspect they've been re-evaluating the sustainability/profitability of Extra Awesome. (It seems they found it difficult to sustain meaningful mod comments on all the Extra Awesome accounts. Some of the Extra Awesome kids are VERY active). 

They ran a beta session of DIY camps last month (one of my DIYers participated) and I think they are looking at using the camps as a platform for some of that.

DIY is still kind of experimental, and I suspect it's difficult for them to find a sweet spot where they are serving maximum value to the kids, with a system that doesn't appear to snub non-member kids, while still making enough money to sustain themselves and pay their staff.

If you're trying to determine whether paid membership (or whatever will replace it) is objectively worth it, you'd probably have to wait to see what ends up being sustainable after several iterations of them trying to get it just right. I'd say one of my DIYers it's been worth every penny and then some because of how active/driven by challenges she is, while for another much less so, since all she does is post artwork and interact socially/cretively with other members. Regardless I haven't worried about the exact value because DIY is seriously the best group of kids on the internet I've ever found, and anything I can do to encourage DIY being the platform of internet communication they continue to use during their formative years is worth it. I highly doubt they are making bank on the site and I'm happy to support it since I am able.

But the good news is, it's always been a great and full experience for non-members too, so if you're on a tight budget a 'wait and see' approach to see how things go is probably wise.

[Michele W.]

DIY.org is continually evolving and trying things. 

My three children have been on the site since 2012. That first year was the sweetest in our books. The dozen or so staff members were all very active within the online community. The about page introduced each staff and we "knew" who was interacting with our children. They cared, engaged the kids and were very helpful. Moderator comments were useful and varied. Staff was always very prompt at responding to things that came up. They really wanted and listened to the kid's feedback and suggestions on how to improve the site. More importantly, they involved the kids in the process of developing diy. (kid intern, kids writing skills, actively seeking feedback from kids, etc.) There was also more communication regarding what was going on within the community.

We all see there are glitches and changes happening. We are not sure what is going on. There have been a lot of changes with staff. There is pretty much only one active moderator. Posts on the forum are slow to get a response from someone at diy. Favorite features such as forking disappeared and were supposed to return months ago. The overall feel hasn't been the same.

[Zach Klein]

I have replies for everyone!

Miriam, we're changing up our paid membership program. It is called Camps and it will launch in early April. Check out diy.org/trycamps for a glimpse.

Jennifer, I'm sorry you didn't receive my email. I sent one to you on Wed, Mar 11th to explain that we're 'sunsetting' Extra Awesome –– maybe it's in your spam folder. We will make some of the features (like Insights and Activity Guides) free for everyone, and roll up the patch program into Camps. I asked our team to extend your benefits (free patches and mentorship) through April 7th. If your kids refresh, they'll see their EA upgrade return. Email me if you have any questions.

Michele, we regret that we consistently fail to meet your expectations! The reality is that we're a much bigger community than we were in 2012 and now we share our time with many more members (400,000 kids!) –– which is precisely why we're building Camps, so we can do that in a way that scales. Heads up, from here on out, you should expect anything to change. After all, this is more than a company, it's a personal project and we all work here because we enjoy the process of learning and evolving. We're going to make stuff that flops, we're going to drop features we don't like, and we're going take big leaps as we search for the best way to sustain the community we've built. 

[Alyson McNutt English]

Zachary, I went to look at my account to see when my Extra Awesome expired (we did get the email, but it said we'd have benefits through our normal cycle, and if just wasn't sure when that was) and saw we're already downgraded? Is there any way to extend it for the kids who were signed up for the camps beta, like we were, if that's what's meant to replace it? My daughter just uploaded a bunch of stuff and I expect we'll likely join whatever service replaces EA, but in that interim, if she earns five or six patches, are we just out of luck? I'm about to tell her to take a few down before mods approve them and wait to see what happens next, because the patches are a big incentive for her. Thanks!

[Alyson McNutt English]

(My iPad autocompleted Zach to Zachary. I'm not actually like a 75-year-old woman who insists on calling everyone by long names whether they like it or not.) ;)

[br...@diy.org]

Hi Alyson,

I just ensured your 2 kids' membership is extended through the rest of your pay period (the 21st) - we'll make sure to get them the patches they've earned while Extra Awesome members!

- Brian

[Michele W.]

Zach, 

"Michele, we regret that we consistently fail to meet your expectations!" 

I don't feel that statement is quite fair. I've given diy.org plenty of support and raves through the years. Everyone knows I am grateful for the kid's experience with the earlier diy.org and believe there is incredible potential in your concept.  

"The reality is that we're a much bigger community than we were in 2012 and now we share our time with many more members (400,000 kids!) –– which is precisely why we're building Camps, so we can do that in a way that scales."

The way it is becoming more adult-directed and structured, may boost your numbers, but it's changing the way kids relate to it and taking away from the self-initiated feel of the earlier version. 

 

[Jennifer Johnson]

Yup, it was in the spam folder. Just found it. Strange, since I usually get DIY e-mails without a snag. Thanks for the extension.

Michele, hearing your experience makes me regret we didn't discover the site sooner. 

I'm still reserving judgement on how camps will play out. I hear what Michele is saying, but I also know having a kid who participated in beta, she was starting to feel stale on DIY due to the size.. it was harder to get moderator attention in all the noise, and she was always asking me what challenge she should do next (after having initiated tons on her own). While I had issues with the camp (which I shared with Zach), I find it hard to criticize something that got her eagerly up and on the site and taking on a new and different thing 3 times a week.

Not sure if camps are the final answer, but with a certain economy of scale you do eventually have to find *some* way to scale things back into relatable sub-groups in order to regain some of what is lost with an overall smaller online community.

[Michele W.]

Jennifer,

We too had issues with the camp and have provided feedback.

I would love to see kids having a more active roll such as through designing their own challenges relating to a skill to earn experience.

Diy has grown stale for my older two especially who have drastically cut back their activity on the site. When they do hop on, it's because of the friendships they've made over the 2.5 years there as the site itself isn't offering them anything at this point.

Both seek more individualized challenges and constructive comments. They are eager to learn but aren't sure how to further stretch their skills.

My oldest puts so much effort and time into his projects (even through the makers spirit of tutorials, open source, and collaborating) which do not get comments while basic cut and paste get featured.

The kids server was so successful because it was kid built. This is a community for kids, so it makes sense to ask them what they want, how something could be solved or improved, and encourage them to have active roles in making it happen.

[Zach Klein]

When launched in 2012, we never intended for adults to play much of a role in the community. In fact, we were somewhat antagonistic towards adults, we had this notion that more often than not adults get in the way of kids learning. We imagined a world in which 10 year olds explained filmmaking to 9 year olds, and 8 year olds explained Minecraft to 12 year olds. DIY would be the platform for this to happen. 

The one exception to this rule was the DIY staff. We spent a lot of time socializing in the community because we were so curious to learn more about the kinds of kids and families using DIY, and also because we really didn't know how to build this platform and needed input from the community. We learned so much! One thing, for example, is that we began to prioritize skills developed by members. To this day, a majority of skills released are authored by kids, including three of the last five (Reader, Traveler and Surrealist).

We soon realized that our involvement in the community was deeply impacting it; sometimes the effects were good, sometimes bad. We learned that our expertise was important to some members, we could mentor them and help them find personal learning paths. We also learned that the attention we paid to kids validated them and drove their engagement – It was novel for them to spend time with adults who understood their passion as fellow geeks. But there was a dark side to all of this: We could not evenly engage with everyone. Kids vied for our attention and at times their competition felt like a popularity contest. Ultimately we decided to fall back to our original strategy, to nurture a community that is entirely driven by relationships kids make with each other. Though, we didn't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Connecting kids to mentors proved to be profoundly effective at stimulating learning. So ... Extra Awesome ... now Camps.

Michele, we're not trying to boost numbers with these services, we're trying to accommodate the numbers we already have. Please consider that your son joined as member 15,182; Our service was four months old. A couple of years later we have 32x as many kids. In order to give all members the kind of adult engagement that your kids experienced, we need to grow our staff. We cannot multiply our staff by 32 without a source of income, so we're trying programs that tie subscriptions to staff growth. Our hope is that the families and kids that enjoy adult direction can opt into our mentorship programs (and help us cover the cost of providing it), while other families and kids that prefer to be self-directed can continue to use the DIY platform as we originally intended. These options allow us to best serve our growing community of over 400,000 kids who all have different learning paths and preferences.

I encourage you to encourage your sons to assume more leadership within the community. They are incredibly talented and many members look up to them. I believe – I know – that if *they* mentored  by engaging with other members through comments and questions or producing how-to’s, then they would develop relationships that would pay dividends back to them. It would provide them a new kind of challenge, one that matches their skill maturity, and it would drive much more peer-to-peer feedback their way (appropriately replacing, in my opinion, the adult feedback you're wanting).

[Jennifer Johnson]

Relating to that, Zach, what about having a moderator-type account for long-term/older kids in the community that have proven themselves to have resourcefulness, maturity, and the leadership skills to represent DIY well?

I can see some kids (including my own) losing interest in the site in the teen years. Some of that is natural, but for your most robust contributors maybe a public acknowledgement of the growth of their role on DIY would encourage them to stay involved. Of course some members already know certain 'veteran' members by name, but some sort of designation would highlight major mentor members to newer or less active younger kids.

Even if it were a semi-automated thing, like a reason to 'master' (5-challenge or pro-challenge) a certain number of badges in a certain area (hacking pro, arts pro, etc.) I dunno, just a thought! I could see kids really wanting to extend themselves to be an acknowledged community leader, and maybe stay engaged with the community longer than they might normally be inclined to. I know at least two of Michele's boys one of my daughters looks up to quite a bit and benefits from the example of them being on DIY...

[Zach Klein]

Jennifer,

I definitely want to do that! I hope DIY veterans will apply to become counselors, but at very least they should special status on the DIY platform. If you or your girls have ideas for how that would work, please share.

- Zach

[Michele W.]

Regarding the self-directed diy route :) Could kids form virtual diy clubs within the diy framework with a moderator observing, but kids leading? 

Will a list of mentors be available along with the fields they specialize in and a bit of background with the option to purchase individual mentoring packages for a diy member? This would help the more advanced self-directed learners who are seeking a database of resources and challenges that stretch their skills beyond the current diy framework.

[Zach Klein]

We will eventually open up the Camps software so that anyone can create a camp, but we cannot provide the adult. It will be up to each club/group to do that.

And, yes, we will add qualifications to each counselors profile so you can better understand their background before joining their camp. Currently there are no plans to offer individual mentoring packages.