Camp subscription timing?

[Samantha Cornell]

Hi!

We just signed up for the camps and I have two questions:

1.  Does the $39 fee allow access to only one camp?  We didn't realize that at sign up, but now that we have paid, it seems like maybe that's how it works?

2.  Is it correct that we need to renew in the middle of the camp?  Wouldn't it be better to allow people to align with the camp schedule?  So, maybe for this first month the period would run through 5/17 to allow people to try it out for one session?  Now that we have paid, I'm realizing that we in fact have to pay $78 to participate in the first 4 weeks.  That doesn't really seem right.

It's entirely possible that I'm just confused.  We love DIY.org and are looking forward to the camps...I just felt caught off guard after we paid and were able to access additional information.

Thanks!

Samantha

[Amy Moore]

I came here with the same question. I'm not happy with the timing at all! I get the monthly subscription, but I was not prepared to pay $78 for a class that was advertised at $39.

[Amy Moore]

Also - when we went to pick the camp, it says "can't connect". Thoughts?

[Jennifer Johnson]

I love DIY and the folks at DIY to pieces, but I think they may have to go back to the drawing board on this one - either the pricing, the content, or a little bit of both, for a lot of reasons. This timing issue is new to me (but that seems significant!).... but here are some other concerns:

- There's just not enough info on the DIY Camps page.

 

- The price is just too high for the content as it exists now. Sorry. I know you guys have to monetize, but it just is. For forty bucks the kids get to watch some videos (some of which will become stock over time, I'm sure), challenge ideas (which they can get from DIY itself for free) and minimal counselor feedback. While like Extra Awesome it includes patches, if the kids are keeping up with the camp they are unlikely to have any time to complete patches unless they happen to be camp-related. So chances are, the kids will complete patches when they *aren't* actively in a camp, and I can see parents grumbling and doing things like telling their kids not to post to challenges unless they are camp-enrolled. Not cool!

- Regarding the price, I'd like you to consider the inaccessibility of this for families with multiple kids. For 3 kids, $30 for Extra Awesome was one thing - $120 for camps is *quite* another. Myself, I have one kid who is DIY crazy and another who loves DIY and interacts with it more casually, yet would still feel left out if I enrolled just her sister in a camp. But $80 a month is not nothing, and I just don't see us paying it more than very occasionally, as much as the DIY-crazy kid will be disappointed. 

- Being in a camp is too narrow in scope, which goes against the original DIY vision. If kid ends up a camp, ends up finding that it's not her thing and she'd rather just do normal DIY challenges, I'd feel like I'd have to be all in her face saying "No! You must do the CAMP!!" so I wouldn't feel like I blew $40 on nothing. Compared with Extra Awesome, if my kid didn't earn any patches that month or if the mod comments were sparse, I was fine with it. It was $10. $10 (even the $20 for 2 kids) is worth just supporting a great site and keeping it free for kids whose parents can't afford a membership.

- I'd like to offer some perspective: for $50, I can hire a symphony musician with a PhD in music to give my child 2 thirty-minute in person one-on-one music lessons. For $40, I could sign up my kid to participate in 5 in-person one-hour science classes, materials provided, at the local science museum. $40 for one of your counselors to exchange a handful of encouraging internet comments is not feeling like that same kind of value.

I am sorry to be so negative. I want to love Camps. I really do. I'm just not feeling it.

I want to be more constructive. I'm going to think on this and talk to my DIYers and see what constructive suggestions we might have.

And hey, maybe it's just us. Maybe this ends up being a total viable way for DIY to monetize. And if it is, great!  But as the parent of one of the more active and enthusiastic DIYers I wanted to share my thoughts.

[Zach Klein]

Hi Amy and Samantha,

I have answers to your questions:

1. Does the $39 fee allow access to only one camp?  

Yes. But we're planning an option to allow kids to participate in multiple camps.

2. Is it correct that we need to renew in the middle of the camp?

No. If you do not prefer to renew, you can cancel and still finish the camp you've already joined.

Also, Amy, if you're having any technical problems, just email he...@diy.org for prompt assistance.

- Zach

[Zach Klein]

Jennifer,

I'm bummed you're not feeling it – but I understand your reasons and I hope that someday we will impress you with our program.

I do not believe your family is isolated – you probably represent a significant segment of our members – but there are also just as many families who consider DIY a bargain. For example, the average cost for a two week day camp in the Bay Area is $600. Additional evidence: 60% of families who participated in our Camps previews responded to surveys indicating they would join camps at $40.

I don't mean to diminish your perspective, just want to highlight the wide audience we're serving. If you have access to a symphony musician at that rate, then indeed DIY Camps probably aren't the right option for you. But, truly, I hope they will be one day and in the meantime your family will be on my mind as we continue to plan and improve the service.

Until then I hope the free DIY continues to be useful for your family. Please keep the feedback coming.

- Zach

[Samantha Cornell]

Thanks Zach, that is helpful and clarifies a lot.

I will echo the sentiments about the price point, this is definitely at the very high end of what we can justify and we did have to make the hard (and unpopular) decision to only allow one of our two boys to participate.  We decided to give it a whirl and evaluate after the first camp.  Maybe we'll alternate between kids or something...we'll have to see.

That said, my kids are much more process driven than results / reward driven.  While we have been using the DIY platform for years, it's been much more in a lurking / idea gathering manner than the intended engagement. They have done many projects but upload very few.  I do see value in the engagement aspect, so I thought we'd give this a whirl and see how it plays out.  While we are unlikely to do camps on a continual basis because of the associated cost, I think it may be too early to assess the value.  If it jumpstarts more engagement and exploration well, then, maybe that's worth $40 every few months.

Thanks for everything!

Sam

[Jennifer Johnson]

Well I do sincerely hope it works out for DIY. I'm not convinced the day camp rate is a fair comparison, since that usually includes 30-40 hours a week of supervision, a physical venue, materials, snacks, and possibly things like lifeguards, counselors with things like first aid training, and field trips or guest programming. The better question is what can you get for $40 in the Bay Area?

I hope I'm wrong. Time will tell! I hope you'll report back at the end of the summer and let us know how things go for DIY camps.

[Samantha Cornell]

I agree that the day camp comparison isn't really on point.  Day camp is, more than anything, childcare. Yes, many have educational value and offer experiences, but it also provides supervision to allow parents to work, etc.  Day camp is also a tax write off for most working parents.

The musician comparison wasn't mine, but we do in fact have access to symphony musicians for $50/hour - they teach violin to my kids weekly.  Group lessons are $10/hour, private lessons are $25/30 minutes.  

I'm not really sure that either of those are terribly helpful comparisons though.  I guess for us it comes down to whether or not we feel like it's worth $40. I'm on the fence, but to be fair, we haven't experienced the camp yet so I'm just guessing.  There isn't really anything out there that fills the niche that DIY.org does, so I'm not sure what to realistically compare it to.  I will say that I figure that the camps subsidize the free content...and I guess I'm okay with that for the moment.

Sibling rates would go a long way here, as would a discount for a long-term commitment.  

[Zach Klein (CEO)]

Jennifer,

I didn't mean to suggest that DIY Camps and Bay Area Day Camps are identical, just that for some families the options are expensive day camps or nothing, and DIY is now a relatively low cost alternative. In the Bay Area, $40 gets you taxi fare to/from camp.

Nevertheless, I understand your position. And we agree! We aim to make camps afford for all families.

– Zach

[Jennifer Johnson]

In all honestly I am on the fence too, but only because one (and only one) of my kids is an absolutely dedicated DIY fangirl. But in regards to your sibling comment, it makes it hard, because her sister likes DIY too, just not nearly as much. When you have two, it's hard say "You know, I'm going to pay for a camp for your sister but not for you, because for her it has the right value and for you, it doesn't."

I suspect the way it will play out in this family is we will occasionally buy the DIY fanatic child a camp for a gift or reward, knowing that the sister would prefer other things over a camp. 

I'm still unclear on your original question. I don't see start dates for any of the camps so how do you know if you're joining one the first week or not?

[br...@diy.org]

Hi Jennifer,

To answer your last question - we'll be rolling out new Camp sessions every week on Fridays. We will allow for a 3-day grace period to sign up for a Camp so you'll have the entire weekend to sign up, after which we'll close off that specific Camp's enrollment. We'll be growing our Camps offerings as we move forward but we will continue to start Camps on Fridays and include these 3-day grace periods throughout the weekend. The Camp start dates will be clearly noted from within the Camp app.

Hope that helps answer your question!

-Brian