Rnd 3173 DIAMICITE Results

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Johnb - co.uk

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Jun 11, 2021, 5:39:08 AM6/11/21
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Well, an interesting Round in terms of voting... Shani's clown stormed into an early lead and despite  opposition retained that lead so she is the next dealer

I expected that at least Dan would vote for rubble - DIAMICTON is a rubble of mixed size particles from clay to boulders which is formed on the land surface and may be embedded in sand or clay. If that happened long ago and it has since become a rock (lithified) it is called DIAMICTITE which was our word for this round

Shani scored 6 natural points and is our next dealer. Dave scored 5 unnatural points and is thus the winnah

Over to you Shani
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JohnnyB
1              a type of schist found primarily in the Carpathian Mountains          from Efrem M          who voted for 8,10          
    voted for by nobody          scores 0

2              a lobster trap; an undersea thermal vent of this shape          from PaulK          who voted for 10,13         
    voted for by Judy M          scores 1

3              from the Greek, the idea of good actions always winning over evil actions          from Debbie E          who voted for 9,10
    voted for by           Tim L, Shani N          scores 2

4              a rock consisting of lithified rubble whose origin is land erosion embedded in mudstone or sandstone              from Wikipedia  who can not vote     voted for by Dan W. Dave C              scores me D2

5              an achondritic stony meteorite that is composed chiefly of pigeonite and maskelynite          from Judy M          who voted for 2,13         
    voted for by Dan W          scores 1

6              a formation produced by the interleaving of two basal minerals          from Ryan Mc          who voted for 8,12          
    voted for by nobody          scores 0

7              typically black or brown granite with high quartz content          from Nancy S          who voted for 10,11         
    voted for by nobody          scores 0

8              fine-grained, silt-size sediment formed by the mechanical erosion of bedrock at the base and sides of a glacier by moving ice          from Dan W          who voted for 4*, 5         
    voted for by Ryan Mc, Effrem M          scores 4*

9              a drug used to treat the symptoms of an enlarged prostate and allow better flow of urine          from Tim L          who voted for 3,13         
    voted for by Debbie E, Shani, N          scores 2

10              a clay-like mineral use to produce the fine crackling on certain types of antique porcelain, particularly from the Qing dynasty          from Mike S          who voted for 11,13         
    voted for by Paul K ,Nancy S, Debbie E, Effrem M          scores 4

11              an imposter or fraud who believes himself (see _hypocrite_)          from Dave C          who voted for 4*,13         
    voted for by Mike S, Nancy S, Tony A          scores 5*

12              a lustrous mineral often mistaken for broken glass          from Tony A          who voted for 11,13         
    voted for by Ryan Mc          scores 1

13              a circus clown          from Shani N          who voted for 3,9         
    voted for by Judy M, Paul K, Mike S, Tim L. Dave C, Tony A          scores 6


Efrem M

0

Ryan Mc

0

Nancy S

0

PaulK

1

Judy M

1

Tony A

1

Debbie E

2

Tim L

2

Mike S

4

Dan W

4*

Dave C

5*

Shani N

6

Wikipedia

D2

 

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Ryan McGill

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Jun 11, 2021, 4:02:22 PM6/11/21
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With no slight intended to yourself, Johnny, I thought "rock whose origin" was too anthropomorphic a turn of phrase to be included in a dictionary.

Had I known wikis were accepted sources, I might have cast my vote that way. And I definitely would have had an easier time finding words to deal. But in my reading of the rules, I was under the impression that the established player base wasn't fond of that level of open-source definition.

Out of curiosity, have wikis been used often? This is the first I've noticed in my years here. I've no quarrel with the practice, though I'm assuming there is some bias toward sites which have some more robust sort of editorial control (such as Wikipedia, as opposed to Urban Dictionary's reddit-style upvote system.).

I'm curious about thoughts on this, especially among those who predate me here.

Ryan

Johnb - co.uk

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Jun 11, 2021, 5:03:26 PM6/11/21
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Ryan

I too had some doubts,,, with a definition like that it needed a little editing and I wasn't sure how much... On my usual dictionary (OED) I restrict myself to selecting from the text - in other words maybe missing something out from one end or the other... I  look forward with interest to this discussion

I am aware that some so called dictionaries have far less editorial control than Wikipedia; even so I would only use wikipedia for scientific type subjects sociological and political entries are often too subjective

JohnnyB
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Efrem G Mallach

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Jun 11, 2021, 5:07:32 PM6/11/21
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Ryan,

I think you're asking two questions here,

First, "whose" is not just for people. Merriam-Webster's first definition of it is "of or relating to whom or which especially as possessor or possessors." Note the "or which." "Whose" is often, and properly, applied to inanimate objects - and is in some of M-W's usage examples.

Second, I try to confirm weird definitions with two sources, but will occasionally use a word whose [note correct use for an inanimate object, a word] definition can't be corroborated. I think it's a judgment call on the part of the dealer. A couple of hundred rounds ago, a dealer was taken in by the dictionary error "dord." (Google it.) That dealer withdrew the word, but someone else might not have. It can happen. Life will go on.

Efrem

Efrem G Mallach

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Jun 11, 2021, 5:13:20 PM6/11/21
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John,

Regarding Wikipedia and science, or at least technology: it is common in information technology for vendors to take different approaches to solving what is essentially the same problem. Vendor employees would ideally like to say "Our product is good and the other guy's is bad," but that would violate the rules. So, they edit the page to talk up the advantages of their approach and the drawbacks of the other one. It is incredibly hard to police this sort of thing, because it can be made to sounf objective, and is done imperfectly at best. The only thing that keeps it under control is the ability of the other guy to re-edit in the other direction. Eventually a more-or-less-stable equilibrium is reached.

I'm willing to trust Wikipedia to tell me the distance to Alpha Centauri, the birth year of Napoleon, or the area of Malta - but beyond that, I keep my salt shaker handy.

Efrem

France International/Mike Shefler

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Jun 11, 2021, 5:43:37 PM6/11/21
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Well, there are dictionaries, and then there are "dictionaries". I've used sources like "The Dictionary of Gods & Goddesses" and "Mrs. Byrne's Dictionary of Unusual, Obscure and Preposterous Words". And other sources like "Hobson-Jobson: Glossary of Colloquial Anglo-Indian Words and Phrases."

--Mike

Shani Naylor

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Jun 11, 2021, 6:36:06 PM6/11/21
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Just to clarify, I dealt 'dord' knowing full well it wasn't a real word, but it was fair game as it was found in a dictionary. It was replaced because too many players knew it.

There are quite a few words on the used words list that aren't real words (the last word, ZZXJOANW, for example, apparently means "Maori. 1. Drum. 2. Fife. 3. Conclusion" except clearly that's not true, but since it was found in a musical dictionary, it was a great word to deal).

I've also used unusual sources, such as Wye's Dictionary of Improbable Words (two lists - one of words with no vowels, the other words with no consonants) and also The Antarctic Dictionary: A Complete Guide to Antarctic English.



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Ryan McGill

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Jun 11, 2021, 6:55:10 PM6/11/21
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Dord, as it turns out, has two wikipedia entries:


and


I feel confident sharing this here, as I figure enough people will look it up again as to nullify its utility for a re-deal with the second definition.

Ryan

Shani Naylor

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Jun 11, 2021, 7:05:57 PM6/11/21
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Thanks! I didn't know about the second def.



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amal...@comcast.net

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Jun 11, 2021, 9:14:28 PM6/11/21
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I’m intrigued by the Antarctic Dictionary. I had no idea Antarcticans (mostly penguins, I believe) spoke English of any kind.

Alan

Efrem



 

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~WRD0001.jpg

Shani Naylor

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Jun 11, 2021, 9:30:57 PM6/11/21
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You learn something new every day.

It's online. 



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Fein, Deborah

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Jun 11, 2021, 9:49:39 PM6/11/21
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​
Deborah Fein, Ph.D.
UConn Board of Trustees Distinguished Professor
Department of Psychological Sciences
Department of Pediatrics
University of Connecticut
debora...@uconn.edu

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Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: Rnd 3173 DIAMICITE Results
 

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Fein, Deborah

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Jun 11, 2021, 9:52:59 PM6/11/21
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oops - sorry about that!

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Daniel B Widdis

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Jun 12, 2021, 1:17:38 AM6/12/21
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Indeed, we have had discussions of copyright trap words on this list in the past.  Two have made the used words list (ZZXJOANW successfully, DORD not so) and ESQUIVALIENCE was discussed but nobody has attempted to deal it (yet).

 

The “Real Rules” do discuss both copyright traps in “real” dictionaries (that we should beware of) and the wiktionary (which suggests we find corroboration elsewhere).   It doesn’t mention Wikipedia itself, although I do think we’ve had the occasional entry from an encyclopedia.

 

I think the general consensus is there’s no restriction on the “dictionary” but players may complain.  Seems a happy medium.  My personal view is that so long as the definition is essentially the same, it’s fair game, even if words like “whose” would imply otherwise.

 

 

From: Dixonary <dixo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ryan McGill <ryanm...@gmail.com>
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Date: Friday, June 11, 2021 at 3:55 PM
To: Dixonary <dixo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixonary] Re: Rnd 3173 DIAMICITE Results

 

Dord, as it turns out, has two wikipedia entries:

Johnb - co.uk

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Jun 12, 2021, 5:01:15 AM6/12/21
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a couple or so points

I remember long ago, when I first joined the game, that I asked if I could play the word GUYOT with the meaning 'a method of pruning and training grape vines'. The reason for asking was that that definition was located in the RHS Encyclopedia of Horticulture (and can be found in other such books) while the word has different meanings in the outside world. I was asking if it was fair to play a word taken from a restricted distribution. I was strongly told that the answer was 'No' because an encyclopedia is not a dictionary (Dodi Schulz) ...

Nowadays most everyone uses Wikipedia for a variety of reasons but I personally tend to use it only for facts - I know that even scientific 'facts' are also frequently up for grabs between different theories but care can be used {eg as an (ex) professional plant taxonomist I have several doubts about many statements of modern taxonomy and I would probably never use such for any reason. eg there is a classic example in Wikipedia where one plant genus X is included in family Y. If you go and look at Y it is described as a genus in family X! - my 'edit' asking if the authors could get together and sort out the confusion was removed but last time I looked the confusion remains}

I remember a test some years ago where famous scientists were asked to rate science articles for accuracy, using 'blind' testing (ie the testers did not know the source) where Wikipedia articles were considered more accurate than Encyclopedia Britannica articles. Of course EB disputed the results

There is a real difference between the Wikipedia definition of DIAMICTITE and the Wiktionary definition - and DIAMICTON doesn't occur in Wiktionary at all: assuming Wikipedia is correct about the latter and thus also the former then the Wiktionary definition is incorrect which is why I didn't use it and preferred an edited Wikipedia entry

JohnnyB

Paul Keating

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Jun 12, 2021, 6:42:17 AM6/12/21
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In my book the only reason not to have chosen guyot was because the word "has different meanings in the outside world": multiple meanings tend to cause DQ trouble, especially when the dealer does not post all of them. 

The rules say any accepted dictionary (which at the time meant a book: in 1989 reliable online reference works did not yet exist), but without providing a list of them, or even indicating who does the accepting. If one is to going be legalistic about it, accepted dictionary is void for vagueness.

The rules talk about choosing a word: they are silent about where the definition comes from. And I feel some resistance to the idea that from any dictionary necessarily means from any one dictionary. That would rule out cross-checking a definition that seems misleading or ill- phrased.

P

Fein, Deborah

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Jun 12, 2021, 11:29:39 AM6/12/21
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The problem is that penguins' beaks get so frozen that we cannot distinguish among their English words. But if you record them and play it back very slowly, you can hear:
  • qanuk: ‘snowflake’
  • kaneq:  ‘frost’
  • kanevvluk: ‘fine snow’
  • qanikcaq: ‘snow on ground’
  • muruaneq: ‘soft deep snow’
  • nutaryuk: ‘fresh snow’
  • pirta: ‘blizzard’
  • qengaruk: ‘snow bank’


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amal...@comcast.net

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Jun 12, 2021, 11:41:51 AM6/12/21
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Funny, I though ‘nutaryuk’ referred to the glop that seabirds sometimes throw up when they’ve eaten too much fish. I think the word for fresh snow is ‘mutaryuk’.

image001.jpg

Paul Keating

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Jun 12, 2021, 11:45:23 AM6/12/21
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I must put this thread on my list of trustworthy sources for the next time I deal.

Fein, Deborah

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Jun 12, 2021, 12:46:56 PM6/12/21
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I fland corrected.

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Daniel B Widdis

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Jun 12, 2021, 5:24:59 PM6/12/21
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According to this article, penguin-speak usually translates to “Hello”, “Get away from me”, and “Look at how big I am. Fancy mating?”

ALAN MALLACH

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Jun 12, 2021, 6:11:06 PM6/12/21
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Yes, but the author is referring to African, not Antarctican penguins. 
 
image001.jpg

Daniel B Widdis

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Jun 12, 2021, 9:57:11 PM6/12/21
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I thought the distinction between African birds and those of other continents was only relevant in the context of carrying coconuts.  And only relevant in birds that fly.

Debbie Embler

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Jun 13, 2021, 8:01:09 AM6/13/21
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Have any of you read any articles about animals communicating telepathically?

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Stephen Dixon

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Jun 13, 2021, 9:15:14 AM6/13/21
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Ah! Somebody called me a 'qanuk' recently. Now I understand that they were not being complimentary.

Steve  Dixon

      -- "Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool."  ~Anonymous  




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Daniel B Widdis

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Jun 13, 2021, 12:55:44 PM6/13/21
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No, but my dog did and communicated this to me.

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