RE: {Distribution Forum} Abridged summary of distribution-forum@googlegroups.com - 4 Messages in 1 Topic
wayne kirsner
In my seminar on Waterhammer in Steam Systems, I assert that flooded manholes with submerged steam lines where the ground water is boiling are dangerous because the traps serving the Mains are not sized to handle the condensate load if more than about 10 feet of line is submerged. I recommend either shutting the steam off to the Main or getting an operable sump pump in the hole ASAP, and that the manhole should have had an operable sump pump in the first place (I realize that’s easier said than done ConEd).
Is the consensus of those dealing with this problem on a routine basis that I’m being too alarmist and I should only urge caution while perhaps referencing the accident at 41st and Lexington as a cautionary tale, or, that others who are not alarmed are not being cautious enough? Just asking those who have more experience in day-to-day operations than I…
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Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013
12:19 PM
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Subject: {Distribution Forum}
Abridged summary of distribut...@googlegroups.com
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§ Controlling steam from flooded manholes [4 Updates]
"Petty, David" <David...@gdfsuezna.com> Oct 09 07:24PM
Groundwater intrusion onto our steam line conduit, Eisenhower
Park in suburban Nassau County
NY
Best regards;
David Petty
Plant Manager
Nassau Energy Corp.
185 Charles Lindbergh Blvd.
...more
"Davin, Pat"
<pda...@veoliaenergyna.com> Oct 09 09:08PM
Philadelphia
uses steam stacks when needed to get the steam up away from pedestrians. We
will often pre place the stacks when larger storms are forecasted or for
hurricane type weather.
...more
Rod Crichton <rcri...@londondistrictenergy.ca> Oct 10 12:49PM
In London in
pedestrian sensitive areas we have started using Fibrelite lids. The frame and
lid form a seal which prevents steam from escaping around the lid but we have
to add a permanent vent. ...more
Len Phillips <len....@gmail.com> Oct 10 07:42AM -0700
Rod, thanks for the insight from London;
wonderful solution.
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 10:07:48 AM UTC-4, Len Phillips wrote:
...more
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Jauch, Carl
Minneapolis isn’t anywhere near a hurricane region, so we don’t really have to deal with frequent, large rainfalls. However, we try to avoid the situation where water gets in the vaults. Our steam vaults have either drain holes in the floor or no floor to allow water to drain into the ground. In cases where the manhole is a sidewalk, we use Fibrelite covers that seal well and keep rain water out. Where the manhole is in the street and we use a standard Neenah cover, we have been installing gutters to collect the water (that leaks in around the cover) and direct it to the floor. We also install passive air vents to keep the moisture levels down inside the vault (attached).
We do have instances where a vault has flooded due to either rain or a city water break – we use a portable pump to get the water out.
Best regards,
Carl
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