Announcing a "distributed social network" project.

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Vikrant Chaudhary

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Feb 26, 2010, 2:16:54 AM2/26/10
to Diso Project
Hi,
I've been developing a protocol on concept of "distributed social
networking". I've named it "Kopal". While Diso and Kopal share the
same goal, the approach is different. While Diso depends on existing
software (like Wordpress), Kopal doesn't depend on any software but
rather only on standards (like OpenID, XRDS, Yadis) which are
integrated within Kopal. (This is all that I could interpret from
http://code.google.com/p/diso/ since main site http://diso-project.org/
is down).

I was wondering maybe you could review my project an provide some
valuable comments. And I could learn the differences within these two
projects and could help making things better.

Homepage of Kopal is at - http://code.google.com/p/kopal/

- thanks
Vikrant Chaudhary
http://vikrant.co.in/

Yonas Y.

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Feb 26, 2010, 4:08:26 AM2/26/10
to diso-p...@googlegroups.com
Hi Vikrant,


The way I understand it, instead of waiting for software X to implement
OpenID/XRDS/Yadis/etc, we could use Kopal.

Where software X might seamlessly embed XRDS/Yadis/etc, Kopal users
would need to use a specific page on their website that is generated by
Kopal.

- Yonas

Yonas Y.

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Feb 26, 2010, 4:16:45 AM2/26/10
to diso-p...@googlegroups.com
Also, it would be much easier to see what Kopal is about with a demo
site.

- Yonas

On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 23:16 -0800, Vikrant Chaudhary wrote:

Vikrant Chaudhary

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Feb 26, 2010, 5:19:23 AM2/26/10
to Diso Project
No you didn't get the picture. If a user owns a domain and some server
space, he may install Kopal on his domain, say example.net. Now, that
user can have his social profile on his home domain like example.net/
profile/
Kopal also defines a set of protocols that specifies about how two
social profile that are completely independent, talk to each other,
for example writing comments, adding as friend and all that social-
networking stuff.
It uses public-key cryptography for verification, OpenID for
authentication and Yadis/XRDS for discovery.
I have my own Kopal profile at http://vikrant.in.kryzen.net/
This is just start, so my profile isn't very complete, but it gives
you the idea.

On Feb 26, 2:16 pm, "Yonas Y." <yona...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, it would be much easier to see what Kopal is about with a demo
> site.
>
> - Yonas
>
> On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 23:16 -0800, Vikrant Chaudhary wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I've been developing a protocol on concept of "distributed social
> > networking". I've named it "Kopal". While Diso and Kopal share the
> > same goal, the approach is different. While Diso depends on existing
> > software (like Wordpress), Kopal doesn't depend on any software but
> > rather only on standards (like OpenID, XRDS, Yadis) which are
> > integrated within Kopal. (This is all that I could interpret from

> >http://code.google.com/p/diso/since main sitehttp://diso-project.org/


> > is down).
>
> > I was wondering maybe you could review my project an provide some
> > valuable comments. And I could learn the differences within these two
> > projects and could help making things better.
>

> > Homepage of Kopal is at -http://code.google.com/p/kopal/

Yonas Y.

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Feb 26, 2010, 5:34:21 AM2/26/10
to diso-p...@googlegroups.com
> No you didn't get the picture. If a user owns a domain and some server
> space, he may install Kopal on his domain, say example.net. Now, that
> user can have his social profile on his home domain like example.net/
> profile/Kopal also defines a set of protocols that specifies about how two

> social profile that are completely independent, talk to each other,
> for example writing comments, adding as friend and all that social-
> networking stuff.

I understand "adding as a friend", but what do you mean by "writing
comments"? Sending a pingback?

Yonas Y.

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Feb 26, 2010, 5:35:52 AM2/26/10
to diso-p...@googlegroups.com
How do I use your demo site without installing Kopal? I think you'd need
two demo sites to show the capabilities of Kopal.

- Yonas

Andrew Wetzel

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Feb 26, 2010, 10:16:34 AM2/26/10
to diso-p...@googlegroups.com
Vikrant -

This sounds like Noserub: http://noserub.com/

Differences? Or do great minds think alike? :-)

Andrew Wetzel
http://hi.im/CircleReader

Vikrant Chaudhary

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Feb 27, 2010, 9:19:39 AM2/27/10
to Diso Project
> I understand "adding as a friend", but what do you mean by "writing
> comments"? Sending a pingback?

"Writing profile comment" is like "writing scrap" on Orkut.

> How do I use your demo site without installing Kopal? I think you'd need
> two demo sites to show the capabilities of Kopal.

Sure, and I'm trying to set-up one. Well, actually that's what I've
been trying to do
but ran into some server problem (my current development server
doesn't support multiple
simultaneous requests which is required by Kopal protocol). which is
the reason that I'm replying so late (I thought
that I'll reply with a link to the demo site). :(

However, my original intention with this thread is to learn more about
Diso and
how can I correlate each other and help making things better.

On Feb 26, 3:35 pm, "Yonas Y." <yona...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How do I use your demo site without installing Kopal? I think you'd need
> two demo sites to show the capabilities of Kopal.
>
> - Yonas
>
> On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 02:19 -0800, Vikrant Chaudhary wrote:
> > No you didn't get the picture. If a user owns a domain and some server
> > space, he may install Kopal on his domain, say example.net. Now, that
> > user can have his social profile on his home domain like example.net/
> > profile/
> > Kopal also defines a set of protocols that specifies about how two
> > social profile that are completely independent, talk to each other,
> > for example writing comments, adding as friend and all that social-
> > networking stuff.
> > It uses public-key cryptography for verification, OpenID for
> > authentication and Yadis/XRDS for discovery.

> > I have my own Kopal profile athttp://vikrant.in.kryzen.net/


> > This is just start, so my profile isn't very complete, but it gives
> > you the idea.
>
> > On Feb 26, 2:16 pm, "Yonas Y." <yona...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Also, it would be much easier to see what Kopal is about with a demo
> > > site.
>
> > > - Yonas
>
> > > On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 23:16 -0800, Vikrant Chaudhary wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > I've been developing a protocol on concept of "distributed social
> > > > networking". I've named it "Kopal". While Diso and Kopal share the
> > > > same goal, the approach is different. While Diso depends on existing
> > > > software (like Wordpress), Kopal doesn't depend on any software but
> > > > rather only on standards (like OpenID, XRDS, Yadis) which are
> > > > integrated within Kopal. (This is all that I could interpret from

> > > >http://code.google.com/p/diso/sincemain sitehttp://diso-project.org/

Vikrant Chaudhary

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Feb 27, 2010, 9:22:07 AM2/27/10
to Diso Project

> This sounds like Noserub:http://noserub.com/
I guess Kopal is more like DSNP -- http://www.complang.org/dsnp/

On Feb 26, 8:16 pm, Andrew Wetzel <andwet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Vikrant -
>
> This sounds like Noserub:http://noserub.com/
>
> Differences? Or do great minds think alike? :-)
>

> Andrew Wetzelhttp://hi.im/CircleReader


>
> On 2/26/2010 4:19 AM, Vikrant Chaudhary wrote:
>
> > No you didn't get the picture. If a user owns a domain and some server
> > space, he may install Kopal on his domain, say example.net. Now, that
> > user can have his social profile on his home domain like example.net/
> > profile/
> > Kopal also defines a set of protocols that specifies about how two
> > social profile that are completely independent, talk to each other,
> > for example writing comments, adding as friend and all that social-
> > networking stuff.
> > It uses public-key cryptography for verification, OpenID for
> > authentication and Yadis/XRDS for discovery.

> > I have my own Kopal profile athttp://vikrant.in.kryzen.net/


> > This is just start, so my profile isn't very complete, but it gives
> > you the idea.
>
> > On Feb 26, 2:16 pm, "Yonas Y."<yona...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >> Also, it would be much easier to see what Kopal is about with a demo
> >> site.
>
> >> - Yonas
>
> >> On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 23:16 -0800, Vikrant Chaudhary wrote:
>
> >>> Hi,
> >>> I've been developing a protocol on concept of "distributed social
> >>> networking". I've named it "Kopal". While Diso and Kopal share the
> >>> same goal, the approach is different. While Diso depends on existing
> >>> software (like Wordpress), Kopal doesn't depend on any software but
> >>> rather only on standards (like OpenID, XRDS, Yadis) which are
> >>> integrated within Kopal. (This is all that I could interpret from

> >>>http://code.google.com/p/diso/sincemain sitehttp://diso-project.org/

Chris Messina

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Feb 28, 2010, 4:01:47 PM2/28/10
to diso-p...@googlegroups.com
Hi Vikrant,

It looks like you've indeed done quite a bit of work on Kopal — I'm sure it's been an interesting project to work on!

I noticed a few omissions or places where you created your own approach to various formats where some already exist.

I wonder if you're familiar with the ActivityStreams or Portable Contacts formats?


All in all, I think you're certainly extending the core Diso concept in Kopal — and would be excited to see if it'd be possible to facilitate interoperability with the existing Diso technologies...

Chris


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Vikrant Chaudhary

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Mar 1, 2010, 11:38:10 PM3/1/10
to Diso Project
Thanks for letting me know about these technologies.
I'm looking forward to implement ActivityStreams in Kopal,
however, I guess Kopal Feed isn't similar to Portable Contacts,
at least in the ways I'm hoping to extend and use Kopal Feed in
future.

Interoperability is a good thing and I'll be looking into Diso's
source code
to see how it can be made possible.

On Mar 1, 2:01 am, Chris Messina <chris.mess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Vikrant,
>
> It looks like you've indeed done quite a bit of work on Kopal — I'm sure
> it's been an interesting project to work on!
>
> I noticed a few omissions or places where you created your own approach to
> various formats where some already exist.
>
> I wonder if you're familiar with the ActivityStreams or Portable Contacts
> formats?
>

> http://activitystrea.mshttp://portablecontacts.net?


>
> All in all, I think you're certainly extending the core Diso concept in
> Kopal — and would be excited to see if it'd be possible to facilitate
> interoperability with the existing Diso technologies...
>
> Chris
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Vikrant Chaudhary <nas...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I've been developing a protocol on concept of "distributed social
> > networking". I've named it "Kopal". While Diso and Kopal share the
> > same goal, the approach is different. While Diso depends on existing
> > software (like Wordpress), Kopal doesn't depend on any software but
> > rather only on standards (like OpenID, XRDS, Yadis) which are
> > integrated within Kopal. (This is all that I could interpret from

> >http://code.google.com/p/diso/since main sitehttp://diso-project.org/


> > is down).
>
> > I was wondering maybe you could review my project an provide some
> > valuable comments. And I could learn the differences within these two
> > projects and could help making things better.
>

> > Homepage of Kopal is at -http://code.google.com/p/kopal/


>
> > - thanks
> > Vikrant Chaudhary
> >http://vikrant.co.in/
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Diso Project" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to diso-p...@googlegroups.com.
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Danny

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Mar 3, 2010, 5:31:59 PM3/3/10
to Diso Project
Quick thoughts:

(1) How does kopal handle sharing definable subsets of information
with different friends / general public in a secure way? Example use
cases:

(a) Bob only wants people tagged "close-friends" to see the pictures
of him drunk at college parties.

(b) Alice is a lesbian soldier in active duty in the US, so allowing
the general public access to her profile would get her discharged.

(2) For authentication, maybe look into using the already existing
OpenPGP keyserver infrastructure (actually, this would probably be
useful for other bits of kopol as well). http://web.monkeysphere.info/
does this for ssh, but I've been talking on IRC to them about
extending to SSL client certs and it seems quite doable, and also the
most autonomo.us friendly secure auth method I've seen (can update
your server in batch mode, so no strict dependance on the OpenPGP
keyserver infrastructure). OpenID is nice, but I haven't seen any
nonsuck (= not password only auth / easily phishable) free software
implementations; please tell me if you have.

Vikrant Chaudhary

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Mar 5, 2010, 12:35:13 AM3/5/10
to Diso Project
However, not yet implemented, Kopal has concept of "friend
groups" (See
comment at line #7 -
http://code.google.com/p/kopal/source/browse/lib/app/models/kopal/profile_friend.rb?r=9f4391ee43ef6d366861403a1e7321e26c01cfc9
),
which can be used to allow only a subset of friends to use/view a
feature of profile. At every new friendship, a new "friendship-key"
is generated which is shared between profiles and is used for all
accesses that require a friendship verification.

While not OpenPGP, Kopal already uses Public-key cryptography for
identification, while authorisation is handled by OpenID. However it
would be great to use OpenPGP instead of simple pair of private/public
keys, as it will bring other goodies like "web-of-trust".
I'll need to learn more about it.
Also, I'm _not_ very familiar with ssh/ssl, but I'll get soon.

And if you're asking about implementation of OpenID, I'm using
"ruby-openid" by JanRain. http://openidenabled.com/ruby-openid/
They also develop OpenID libraries for PHP and Python.

PS: While there are some technical differences between
identification,
authentication and authorisation. I'm trying to justify the use of
PKI and OpenID in above paragraph by the assumption that
identification is something which is done when profile does
something on behalf of user (like accepting incoming friendship
requests) even if user is not signed-in. While authorisation is
required when user does something by her own (like sending a
friendship
request). http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc512578.aspx

And, sorry for replying late.

On Mar 4, 3:31 am, Danny <dcl...@pobox.com> wrote:
> Quick thoughts:
>
> (1) How does kopal handle sharing definable subsets of information
> with different friends / general public in a secure way? Example use
> cases:
>
> (a) Bob only wants people tagged "close-friends" to see the pictures
> of him drunk at college parties.
>
> (b) Alice is a lesbian soldier in active duty in the US, so allowing
> the general public access to her profile would get her discharged.
>
> (2) For authentication, maybe look into using the already existing
> OpenPGP keyserver infrastructure (actually, this would probably be

> useful for other bits of kopol as well).http://web.monkeysphere.info/

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