Winblows "problems"

[Rick, W7IMM]

Howdy all,

I have been using my very old HP Core i3 laptop (2008 vintage & and came with Win7 and I  upgraded to Win10) with FreeDV almost from inception!

(I've also got FreeDV to work with a 2015 MAC Book Pro running Monterey and my home made (AMD 6-Core) desktop running OpenSuSE Linux too)

For the most part  the old HP Core i3 laptop "works" , although a tad slow and getting slower every time an update is pushed.   (and I have to sit through multiple reboots) 

I also have used it for TurboTax for the same amount of time and since MicroShaft is going to literally KILL Win 10 which will also KILL the ability to use TurboTax,

(this year,  Intuit TurboTax also removed MAC Monterey compatibility)

So I MUST and did to "upgrade" to a new computer.

The new one is very a current,  ACER NV15 Core i7 laptop (32gb ram and 500gb M.2 drive)  that came with Win11 Home that I will move my Win10 Pro license to from the "old" HP.

After sitting through the multiple updates and reboots for more than an hour on the "new" computer,   I finally got the thing where I could start installing my favorite software to include TurboTax and FreeDV.

I think I have a tiny bit of experience using FreeDV and Windows in general and I used most of the default settings.

I started the computer today (and after sitting through another round of updates and reboots)....I installed FreeDV and of course, the sound-audio system (for speaker output) simply disappeared.

It's gone.  Gates must not think I need it anymore!

"System > Sound > Volume mixer "

"Output device ...... No output devices found"

Intel, NVIDIA and Realtek devices are listed in device manager though.

Sorry for the long rant above!!!

It of course does find the USB Audio codec devices.

So long story short:  What setting in FreeDV makes a Winblows 11  POS lose the audio devices for speaker output?......Or, what switch did I flip to make this happen?

[Dayne Aldridge]

I assume you are describing what you don't see in the list when you open freeDV tools, receive tab, output from computer to speaker/headphones.  I have a new ACER 3 15 with similar stuff as you.  I see in the list one for the laptop speaker Speakers(Realtek(R)Audio).  While this works the level of the audio is very low.  I turn on bluetooth and link to my HiFi amp that lets me control the volume and it works fantastic.  Maybe you can use bluetooth as a work around.  Hope to find you on the air soon.

Dayne K8CHY

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[Jose Donnari]

You have to set the Realteck speaker as default and the USB device you are using for reception or the virtual cable as default communications, depending on what you use, but that's the problem, no, the speaker is not set as default.

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[Rick, W7IMM]

Ok,

Well, somehow the Realtek audio output was disabled. (I didn't disable it but it was disabled)   So, I re-enabled it and got the speaker output back (systems sounds, Youtube audio etc.)

But I still cannot get audio from the radio to the software.  I know this because I should be able to select "Analog" while FreeDV is running and get receive audio from the computer speakers.  In Digital mode, the waterfall is "falling" but there's clearly no audio signal there.

I know the digital encoded audio is going the other way because it's transmitting normally.  

Just no receive audio making it to the software.  SO I guess I'm halfway there!

[Mooneer Salem]

Maybe check the app specific volume settings? You may have to go into the old Control Panel (not "Settings") to set this, though.

-Mooneer K6AQ

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[Rick, W7IMM]

Hi Mooneer,

Thanks for the info!

It's been pretty frustrating considering it worked so well on the MAC Book Pro and Win10.

There's a LOT of different audio settings on WIN11 that I have no experience with!

[Jose Donnari]

Hi Ric, if it doesn't recognize your internal audio card, what you can do is install an external USB audio card and with that I think you can solve the problem of not having a microphone.

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[Mel Whitten]

Yes,  something like this one I’ve used for many years from Win 7 to 11.  Available from Amazon (USB Sound Card Stereo 3.5mm Audio Adapter)

 

Mel, K0PFX

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[Rick, W7IMM]

Well,

An update.  I am still having problems getting Winblows 11 to produce speaker audio using FreeDV even in the analog mode......  I can tell I have USB Codec audio getting from the radio, I just cannot "connect" it to the FreeDV software.

USB Codec audio during transmit is making it from the software to the radio though. 

I am not understanding how easy it can be to get it to work with the MAC and Linux but monumentally complicated to get it to work with Win11.  

t worked so well with WIN10.  I'm pretty much ready to give up on Win11 Incidentally, I also tried to get WSJT-X work on WIN 11 and had the same problem.  I cannot get audio  to the software.

[Rick Kunath]

OK Rick...

I think I know what is going on. So, do you have audio from the rig
going to FreeDV? You should be able to see that on the GUI. I take it
that the USB audio device is how Windows sees the rig? Will the USB
audio from the rig play through the PC speaker at the same time as
FreeDV is getting it?

Here I have a second sound card as the FreeDV output for decoded audio.

Can you post some screenshots of all of the sound related windows so we
can see how things are setup?

Rick Kunath, K9AO

[jdow]

Home or Pro - Pro is more flexible.

I presume the audio port you want to connect to is visible in DeviceManager. If it isn't trouble shoot there. If it is there then you have to convince Windows, in Settings, this app is allowed to use that audio port (or ideally any app may use the port.) That MIGHT clear up your problem. I do not have 11 handy at the moment. In 10 look under "System->Sound" for "Advanced sound options". Click "App volume and devices preferences" then follow your nose. It should allow "default".

You may be able to reach the control panel. Try running that from the start menu. If it works the setup is a little easier and you can set a default communications device. That might make it a little easier to find and connect to the port you want. You can also check to see that your desired audio port is not disabled.

Microsoft has, in the name of simplification, made the whole sound mess into a genuine morass to try to work with.

Those are the ideas that come to mind. I am sure there are other suggestions,

{o.o}   Joanne/W6MKU

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[Rick, W7IMM]

Thanks for the quick replies,

I am now actually able to produce (computer speaker) audio with FreeDV  in the "Analog" mode.  The audio is pretty faint. (and I've increased every volume bar in windows I could find to no avail.

I was able to  increase it by increasing the USB audio output in the IC705 from 50% to 75% but when running FreeDV in MAC, 50% is more than enough (actually almost too much) and even at the 75% level, I cannot see anything in the waterfall nor does the FreeDV "Level" indicator indicate anything at all so the audio level is still insufficient.

Joann, I didn't say, but in the previous HP laptop,  I was using WIN10 Pro and it worked fine.......With this new ACER laptop, it's  Win11 Home.  

I have been unsuccessful transferring my full retail Win10 Pro license to 11 in the new computer.   I read online that if you have a Win10 Pro Digital (full retail) license, it can be transferred to 11.  

Mine was an upgrade from a full retail copy of Win7 Ultimate to 10 Pro and I have transferred it a couple of times.  The last transfer (third or fourth)  was from my old HP Core i3 laptop (NOT Win 11 compatible) to Bootcamp in my Early 2015  MacBook Pro.  It transferred just fine.  but I don't want to leave 10 on the MAC.  When Win10 is killed in OCT, I just want to bury it for good!

[jdow]

I mentioned what can be done on Windows 10 because there is probably an equivalent, and really hard to find, means of configuration on Windows 11. The settings configuration may also include a master level control. Check "Settings->System->Sound->All sound devices->Properties" for each of your sound devices. Look for the "Test" button near the level slider. If it makes a lot of noise then something in the app is set wrong. Otherwise diagnose why the test button is quiet. This neatly bisects the problem for you. Making noise out of all your outputs is a really good test in this regard.

Connectors and cable are known flaky objects; but, I am sure you know that. Maybe like me a reminder kicks the mind out of a look that does not include such objects as possibilities.

{^_^}   Joanne/W6MKU

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[Mooneer Salem]

IIRC there's a level setting somewhere in the old sound options in Control Panel (NOT the Settings app MS wants people to use now). I believe you can still get to Control Panel in Windows 11 but I'm not in front of a computer at the moment to know for sure.

-Mooneer K6AQ

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[Michael Lizzio]

Hi Mooneer, 

I assisted a W11 user yesterday and had him type "Control Panel" in the lower left search box on the desktop to get to it.

Mike Wa2top 

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[Rick, W7IMM]

Correct, 

You just open "System" and  type "Control Panel" in the "Find a Setting"  search box.  Win11 Control Panel looks just like the one in Win10 as does Device Manager.

[Rick, W7IMM]

Well, 

An update on my new Winblows11 Home Core-i7 laptop.

I'm giving up on it.  no matter what I try, I cannot get USB Audio CODEC audio from the radio to FreeDV and then decode for speaker output.

Alternatively, I can get USB Audio codec audio from the software to the radio.  But digital or analog, I cannot get the computer speakers to produce audio from FreeDV.

Bill Gates and ACER must not want it to work on this fairly new ACER laptop!!   I had no problems getting it to work with my previous much older HP laptop running Win10 Pro.  But no workee on this rather new (less than 6mo old) ACER Nitro V15

So, I'll have to use my (now old) early  2015 MacBook Pro.  It just works.

73/Rick

W7IMM/W4XA

[Rick Kunath]

I'm coming in at the end here, so forgive me if all of this is hashed
out. (Tell me to go look if I need to.)

So you get audio from the rig to FreeDV, this is of course needed.

Then what are you feeding the decoded output from FreeDV to? It can't be
that same audio device, you need a second audio device to reproduce the
decoded audio. If you used a virtual audio cable you could route the rig
audio to FreeDV without involving the PC sound card, of course you can't
hear it then, unless you experiment with monitors on the VAC, but really
you don't need to hear the raw audio from the rig, and then use the PC
sound card for the FreeDV decoded audio.

Also as an idea, have you headed over the the manufacturer's web site
for your sound card chip-set and looked for the most recent drivers from
there? I have found many times that the OEM drivers are stripped and the
manufacturer's drivers have additional features.

Rick Kunath, K9AO

[Rick, W7IMM]

This ACER laptop is using all the preinstalled default software.  There is no Virtual audio software installed.  Also, I can get WF View to work only if I connect to the IC705 via WIFI.  I also tried to use WSJT-X via USB and had the same problem.  I cannot get USB audio codec audio to the software. 

Briefly, I switched USB ports and and then selected as the radio device "USB Audio Codec-2" and  FreeDV actually indicated audio in the waterfall .....But not for long, then nothing.

I am just about at the end of my patience.  I have no problem getting FreeDV to work with Winblows 10 Pro using all the default settings.  Using Win11 Home, none of the default settings work at all. (I can get Hamlib and Cat control to work though) 

If I continue, I will probably just smash this  $900 ACER laptop I bought only a few months ago!

I have never had any problem getting older versions of FreeDV to work with OpenSuse, the MAC and Win10 Pro and even KDE NEON (Ubuntu/DEB based)

But I cannot seem to find settings for Win11 that will work at all. 

Now I remember why I switched to Linux in 1998 for all Email, Browsing, Banking etc.

[Rick Kunath]

OK, so with one audio output device on the laptop then you have to be
using the USB codec direct to FDV. That makes sense.

The thing about the audio disappearing had me wondering if USB power
management was disabled in the Windows power management console? That
might be worth a try.

What is that motherboard sound chip on that laptop?

Just to test, what of you routed the USB audio from the rig to a set of
USB headphones? Those should look like a separate playback device and
you should hear the rig audio ion those at least and see if it holds.

Rick Kunath, K9AO

[Rick, W7IMM]

It appears to be Realtek audio, But there's also Intel HDMI audio as a choice.  FreeDV offers a choice of "Speakers(RealtekAudio)"

When I plugged in a USB-C headphone, it offered that choice as well.

But this isn't the main problem.  I cannot get USB receive (noise) audio to even register on the FDV  waterfall nor the  "Frm Radio" tab and I cannot get Audio from the speakers when in the analog mode.

Don't know how I would route audio from the rig to the headphones.

Do you mean select the headphones instead of Speakers in FDV?

[Rick Kunath]

Rick,

Might that HDMI audio be an audio system inside a monitor maybe? or it
might be in the case of an audio enabled HDMI device. I wouldn't think
that would appear unless there was a discovered device though.

I see RealTek does not have W11 drivers, just up to W10. I am running
RealTek here under W10 successfully.

Understood on the receive noise testing. If you wanted to test with
headphones I would think not having FDV running and then selecting the
rig USB audio source in the headphones device selection screen should
have the rig audio going to the headphones. At least you'd know you
could hear the rig audio that way. If that works oyu can rule out any
radio involvement with the no audio to FDV issue.

Rick Kunath, K9AO

[Rick, W7IMM]

Just tried using USB Audio Codec as input and speaker & Headphones as listening device.

No audio in either case but I did notice that the volume/gain  control for input was "jumping up & down" with whatever  was on the radio.  

So I am pretty confident that USB audio is actually making it to Winblows 11.  It's just not going anywhere,  either to the speaker, headphones or any other software I run.

I do not have any HDMI devices connected so I haven't tried them at all. 

Funny thing, playing running Youtube, (Duck-Duck GO,  Duckplayer) audio works just fine.  I can select speakers or plug in my USB-C headphone adapter and select it, audio switches to the headphones.

If I go to System> Sound> Volume mixer,

Rick Kunath, K9AO Just tried some additional resets

 

Now I'm getting an FDV message "Sound Engine Failed to initialize"

After I got this computer, I did a LOT of ACER Bloatware removal.  I wonder if I removed something that is required to make some of the audio features work?

 

 

[Rick Kunath]

I think you are on to it now Rick.

A thought might be to head to the ACER site and get the list of
downloads of the current drivers for the laptop. I'd check everything.
Video, any CPU patches, audio, network, USB drivers, wireless and all of
that.

I just ran across something similar to this but with video this week. I
had a well working HD video webcam that I hadn't used in a while and was
working well. I connected it intending to test it and it was nothing but
issues. A flash to the latest cam firmware did not help. What I finally
discovered was that *some* of the USB3 ports did not work right with the
camera, some did. My 4-port PCIe Renasys chipset (StarTech) card was
working fine at USB3, the rest were not. All of the USB2 ports worked.

I still haven't dealt with the non-working ports that work with
everything else, but it is on the list. Meanwhile I know how to make
things work. Windows updates clearly broke something.

Might be worth a USB2 port test or new USB chipset/hub drivers.

Rick Kunath, K9AO

[Rick Kunath]

I wonder if this might be a sample rate issue?

What is the W11 sample rate set to and what is the sample rate of the rig?

Found this on a Google search:

In the Sound Properties dialog box select the Recording Tab. Right click
on the Microphone USB CODEC item. Select Properties. A new dialog box
pops up. Click the "Listen" tab. Click the "Listen to this device" check
box and click Apply.

Who knows, passing it along.

Rick Kunath, K9AP