RSGB news via DV on 80m, Sunday mornings.

[Dave B]

Hi.

OK..

FreeDV 4.1 dev on Mint 19.3 64 bit, all up-to-date.

I last used this some months ago with no issues for reception of the
RSGB news here in the UK without issue.

What DV mode is currently used by the news readers on Sunday Mornings in
the UK?

I've just cycled through all it's different modes, on both USB and LSB,
and no decodes.   (Of course, the RSGB's own page about this does not
specify the mode(s) used.)

Yes the spectrum/waterfall signal is centred nicely in the passband, and
is a good signal.

Analogue pass-through works fine, so the sound device selection is OK. 
(Has any progress been made in the use of Pulse on Linux, that would
make it so much more "user friendly.")

Eventually FreeDV just crashed and vanished without warning..

Cant help thinking this system needs something like a RSID mode
identifier facility, much as used by Fldigi & Multipsk among others, or
some other FreeDV specific ID system.

73

Dave G8KBV

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[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Dave,

I've been doing some work to detect sound device removals and first-time FreeDV usage (both on application startup and when pushing the Start button)--see https://github.com/drowe67/freedv-gui/pull/82. A wizard-type setup thing would be nice long-term, though, or at the very least a "simple" mode for the audio configuration that handles the most common use case (mic/speaker of radio being the same device and mic/speaker of the computer being a different device). So far, the changes in the PR seem to be working fine in Windows per at least one other person and I haven't had issues on Mac, but testing on Linux would be useful too.

As for the crash, I've heard of that happening from other people (albeit extremely intermittently) so it would be good to narrow down what's going on. Do you happen to have a recording of what you heard over the air? I can try playing it back through the application using various settings until I can trigger a crash.

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

(BTW, current FreeDV convention is LSB below 10 MHz and USB above it, similar to SSB voice.)

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[David Rowe]

Hi Dave,

1/ What procedure did you use to build freedv-gui (build_linux.sh?) ?
2/ Does the codec2 git hash reported by Help-About match that in your
freedv-gui/codec2 build directory?
3/ Can you post a recording of the received audio:

https://github.com/drowe67/freedv-gui/blob/master/USER_MANUAL.md#helping-improve-freedv

4/ Do the test files in freedv-gui/wav decode OK?

- David

[g8kb...@googlemail.com]

Hi Again.

To Mooneer and David Rowe.

Thanks for the replies, I think intended for me...   If not, apologies for attempting to hijack the thread!

Sadly no audio was decoded, and as far as what was passed through as analogue, only the digital noise of the raw FreeDV signal.  Also, no recording made.

If I wake up in time next Sunday, perhaps I'll see if I can get a recording "off air" of the raw signal as received, then I have something to play back over and over, and see if it decodes.

I'll use Audacity at some high(ish) sample rate, or will a lower sample rate do OK?  (Fldigi likes 8k/second .wav files that works very well.)

"Playback" into Free DV would perhaps be via one of the audio output systems "monitor" input devices, if I can figure out the archaic ALSA incantations to enable such things.

Much as I dislike Pulse's CPU thrashing, it is very user friendly in respect to piping audio between devices, and handling the resulting re-sampling needs, so I can easily have for example, WSJTx, Fldigi and QSSTV and Audacity (for retrying later) etc, all running & simultaneously "listening" to the same signal from the RX.   So, find a signal, tune to it and see what decodes!   Can't do that with FreeDV sadly and ALSA alone (that I know of.)

This last Sunday, it was only FreeDV active on the PC.

If you have a set procedure for such recording/playback for testing purposes on Linux, can you detail it please?

Note, that the install I have, was done many weeks/some months ago, and at that time the source file hashes matched OK.  (When present, I do check those before building.)  I can't recall exactly what the build procedure was, but I followed one of the example walk through's on one of the FreeDV site pages at the time.   It built and ran then just fine.

Note also, that I'm nearly 99% Non Windows at home now.  The only use I have for that "other" OS, these days is some DMR and ancient ex PMR radio programming and configuration.

73 for now.

Dave B (G8KBV)

[Mark Hale]

Hi Dave

The news and subsequent chats after the session use 700D

There is also a regular 4pm group most days of the week 3.693 lsb, same mode at the start and occasionally experimenting with 700E 

Hope that helps

Mark

GW0POA 

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[Dave B]

Thanks Mark.

I'll set an alarm for Sunday morning and try again.

4pm is not a lot of use to me, weekdays that is, unless BoJo locks us down properly this time.  (My work is mostly hands on, and unable to do much if any at home, sadly.)

Also, thanks for the confirmation on the mode used (700D)

Though the scrawny wire antenna works OK near the top end of 80m, that is also where I have a lot of VDSL noise, so only the strongest signals get through.

I'll have another go this coming Sunday, so long as I remember to set the alarm!

73.

Dave G8KBV.

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[Mark Hale]

Feel free to drop me an email if you want to arrange a time. I’m working myself so it’s not often I manage the weekday slots 

73s

Mark

GW0POA 

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[Tony Langdon]

On 5/1/21 1:00 am, 'g8kb...@googlemail.com' via digitalvoice wrote:
> Hi Again.

>
> "Playback" into Free DV would perhaps be via one of the audio output
> systems "monitor" input devices, if I can figure out the archaic ALSA
> incantations to enable such things.

You can always use the ALSA loopback device. For the basic setup, make
sure the sample rate of the wav file and FreeDV are the same.

If your loopback device is hw:3, then you have one app running on hw:3,0
and the other on hw:3,1. For example, aplay feeding audio into hw:3,0
and FreeDV listening on hw:3,1.

I use the loopback device quite a lot here, even running a software
audio link between SvxLink and thelinkbox (using CTCSS for PTT
signalling!), and it works quite well. Another loopback setup feeds
audio from this system to an Internet stream.

There's a bit more to the loopback device, but I'm still learning those
incantations, many in asound.rc . ;)

>
> Much as I dislike Pulse's CPU thrashing, it is very user friendly in
> respect to piping audio between devices, and handling the resulting
> re-sampling needs, so I can easily have for example, WSJTx, Fldigi and
> QSSTV and Audacity (for retrying later) etc, all running &
> simultaneously "listening" to the same signal from the RX.   So, find a
> signal, tune to it and see what decodes!   Can't do that with FreeDV
> sadly and ALSA alone (that I know of.)

I've never used Pulse, most software I use won't work with it. It's
usually the first thing to go on a new Linux installation with a GUI. :)


--
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com

[David Rowe]

Hi,

Can a few of you pls try to reproduce this bug (FreeDV crashing) on the
Windows build of FreeDV GUI:

  https://github.com/drowe67/freedv-gui/issues/35

I can't seem to reproduce it on Ubuntu Linux any more.  Pls let me know
what version of FreeDV you are using.

Thanks,

David

[Dave B]

Hi David.

I was using what it says is "FreeDV 1.4 devel"  Built from source (from
the folder creation date) early in October 2019!

I guess things have moved on a bit since then!

73

Dave G8KBV

[Dave B]

Sorry ignore my last.  My FreeDV crashed due to something in the audio
stream I suspect.  NO USB device disconnects happened.

Apologies.

Dave G8KBV


On 07/01/2021 20:15, David Rowe wrote:

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Dave,

You didn't happen to get a core file from that crash, did you?

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

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[lu5...@gmail.com]

Hello everyone, just to inform you that there are good conditions in 40 meters, with UK .. 7045 kc (ARGENTINA  FREEDV frequency) from 03.00 UTC , I made a very short video about the SDR of NORTH WEST IRELAND, in 700 C and E, with good copy , only 100 watts and delta loop antenna .. if anyone wants to do some test, let me know, thank you very much

LU5DKI JOSE

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F0XDo6BK3oWoUUGCDYXh6w6EM6fJlAZt/view?usp=sharing

[g8kb...@googlemail.com]

Hello again Moonear.

Sadly not.   But if I awake in time on Sunday Morning, I'll try again, and if such a dump occurs, I'll try and catch it.

Is there a "reliable" way to capture that?  I sometimes see mention of such when other stuff crashes and burns, rarely, but have no idea where such dumps are put, or how to retrieve them without damaging the info contained.   I'm running Linux Mint 19.3 64 bit, not MS-Windows.   From memory, that last time it just quit without warning, and no message.  I'll launch it from a command line session next time, that usually shows something when stuff dies unexpectedly.

Cheers All.

Dave G8KBV.

[Mooneer Salem]

Hi Dave,

You should be able to execute the "ulimit -S -c unlimited" command prior to running FreeDV in the terminal to enable core dumps. Next time it crashes, it should put the core dump in /var/crash or a few other places (more info at https://linux-audit.com/understand-and-configure-core-dumps-work-on-linux/).

Thanks,

-Mooneer K6AQ

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[Peter Reichelt]

Hi Mooneer, David

I have possibly replicated Daves issue.

Last night starting at 1100 UTC I was was listenng to a local KiwiSDR monitoring the tx from Jose LU5DKI from Argentina in contact with Peter VK3RV/5 and they were experimenting with modes 700C and &700E and I was switching between modes.On several occasions FreeDV locked up and had to be restarted. I have replicated it this morning.

My set up FreeDV GUI 1.5.1 devel (GUI git hash: 2578d57 Codec2 git hash: bfe7ca10 lpanet git hash 60dc4c5 Win 64

Audio from web based SDR feeding FreeDV via VB Cable. FreeDV set for rx only

Error message 

Problem signature:

Problem Event Name: APPCRASH

Application Name: freedv.exe

Application Version: 0.0.0.0

Application Timestamp: 5fecf892

Fault Module Name: libcodec2.dll

Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0

Fault Module Timestamp: 5fecf816

Exception Code: c0000005

Exception Offset: 000000000000c560

OS Version: 6.3.9600.2.0.0.768.101

Locale ID: 3081

Additional Information 1: d02d

Additional Information 2: d02d7443cc72fed903576d862db8fd4b

Additional Information 3: 90bc

Additional Information 4: 90bc748073b6c015654fc6d89de7dc5b

Regards

Peter VK5APR

[Dave B]

Morning All.

Well I fell out of my pit in time for the RSGB News at 09:00z on 3643
LSB/700D.

A fair bit of activity before the start of the news, but all with very
broken audio and lots of modem problems trying to sync.   The signals
are strong, but so is the local "urban QRM" (both S9+)  I couldn't get
any call-signs.

Matt G6WPJ came on at 09:00 with an even stronger signal, but was still
being corrupted by my local QRM, plus Matt did say he could see some
other QRM on frequency at his location.  I could also see 4 regularly
spaced carriers smack in the middle of the waterfall when there were no
FreeDV signals before the start of the news.

There was also very strong selective fading sweeping through the signal
HF to LF, as seen when looking at the "FromRadio" spectrum display.  
Peak level some -10dB, the selective fading "notch" is often 30dB deep,
and takes about half the signal out (visual comparison only.)

The SNR bar-graph varies from 0 to 11 (at most) with most time drifting
up and down between those limits, mostly in the lower 1/4 of the bar-graph.

The line of text below the waterfall/spectrum/scope display is more
often corrupt than not, even with the signal suffering no fading.

The resulting recovered audio is "choppy" at best, & very uncomfortable
to listen to.

Frequency delta is next to nothing, timing delta is some -0.5  From
G6WPJ at least.  (My rig is locked to GPS as far as frequency is concerned.)


Re the GW station that came up after the news, I never got his call,
plus the text line was corrupt 100% of the time.  Audio about 70% copy
at best.   Hi Timing and Frequency delta's, both stable though about -0.25


The other G4A** call that came on, likewise I never got his full call
either.  Audio was not too bad, but only for about 25% of the time.  His
Frequency Delta was close to zero, but his timing delta described a slow
sine-wave about +0.1 to -0.15 pk to pk!..


The scatter diagram for all signals, was more like a snowstorm, rarely
showing any structure, but when WPJ did peak in the clear, did settle to
4 well defined spots, but not for long.


I gave up at 09:50 when what looked like massive 8 PSK signal QRM
appeared.  (Primary user?)


I did see this in the terminal screen from where it was launched, after
closing FreeDV

09:50:58: Debug: 1 threads were not terminated by the application.  (I
have the text of the full session saved, if needed.)


CPU here is an i5 at 2800MHz, 8G RAM, loading under 10% memory usage
under 1.5Gbytes.

Using a Sennheiser USB headset, and an iMic USB-Soundcard for the radio,
that is the trusty TS870s, with it's filters set for 100Hz to 3kHz, and
flat response, no DSP noise reduction or noise blanker, but with a
moderatly fast AGC.  That seems to be best for most digi-modes.

OS is Linux Mint 19.3 64 bit.

Applicaiton is "FreeDV 1.4 devel" built from source, on the 8th of
October 2019.

Launched in a Terminal session, with dump captures enabled, as Moonear
detailed.    Guess what, no crash today!


Sadly, with FreeDV running, I loose the ability to make any recordings,
of the recovered audio or the raw signal from the radio :-(

I don't understand why other sound-card applications such as Fldigi and
Audacity, that use ALSA based calls to the system, but in a way that
allows pavucontrol to be used to manipulate levels, and change the
source and sink "on the fly", why FreeDV is locked solid to ALSA, in a
way that blocks any other software from controlling it, other than the
very limited Alsamixer (terminal or gui version.)

Or is that a requirement to keep the stream timing accurate?  If so, it
needs mentioning somewhere in help files etc.


Also.  PTT or Rig control (Via Hamlib?)

If so, why doesn't it allow the selection of any valid serial devices? 
Only 4 are listed (Currently, there are 6 valid USB/Serial devices on
this system!)

How about allowing the use of *Any* /dev/tty  device, such as 
/dev/ttyTS870  That is defined by a UDEV rule, as of course the USB
serial devices tend to be enumerated in an arbitrary way when the system
starts.

Using a UDEV rule based on some unique feature of the attached device
(an embedded serial number, or the physical path to the device) is a
sure fire way to achieve stable and predictable device names and
assignments.   Hamlib allows such names, as does Flrig/Fldigi and the
likes of WSJTx etc.


Sorry for the negativity, but I've not got the physical room for a
dedicated FreeDV PC (Unless it'll run on a Pi.)

That, and when I can run multiple digital modes using a collection of
other software all running concurrently on this PC without clashes, why
FreeDV can't be used in the same way?

However, though I can dabble with code, my skills with C/C++ is limited,
plus threaded programming makes my head hurt!  So, I'll pass on that
level of involvement.  But any Beta (or even alpha) testing I can
attempt, I'm willing to help.   (I've done some work with Flrig on
Linux, and some LabView called DLL development for work, but that's
about all.  Most of my software time was spent with Delphi for work
crafting instrument drivers for test software.)

The local QRM levels here on all bands are another thing.  Without that,
I might consider the dedicated hardware route, but with the QRM levels
only ever increasing (VDSL, In Home PLT, Noisy TV's, crappy non
compliant PSU's and some LED lighting etc) FreeDV here (for me at least)
is always going to be troublesome.


73.

Dave B.

[David Rowe]

Hi Dave,

Most of your report seems to be about your local QRM environment?  Not
much we can do about that.  Many people use web based SDRs.

Thanks you for your offer of testing. Freedv Devel 1.4 is rather old -
pls use the latest freedv-gui master for any Linux testing. Pls quote
the Git hash when reporting any issue (Help-About).

On Linux, you can select any serial device you want by typing it
directly into the combo box.  We have hard coded 4 common ones for
convenience, but as you say some are dynamically created so difficult to
anticipate them in advance and a lot of effort to work them out at run time.

- David